I don’t think there should any limit on what vetting a buyer is allowed to do, as long as it is at their expense. If the buyer wants to spend $$$ to make sure they are getting a sound horse, it is their choice. However, they should schedule the PPE within a reasonable time frame (no more than a week). As far as waiting on tests, I don’t think it would be fair to sell the horse while a buyer is waiting on results from their PPE. You may ask for a deposit to hold the horse, or continue to show the horse - as long as you let other buyers know that they are second in line, pending results.
Most contracts that take a deposit say it is non-refundable except in the event the PPE is unsatisfactory to the buyer (and this is a broad definition). if the horse fails the PPE, that is a reason to pass on the horse, and you get the deposit back. Yes you are out the PPE cost, but that is your “insurance” for not taking an unsound horse home.
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EmilyM that’s been my experience, but the thread shows than many contracts don’t say that at all and some expect a nonrefundable deposit.
I’d argue that the scenario is different actually.
Buyer: starts with $25k in cash (verifiable value), ends up with $20k or so
Vet: starts with $0, ends up with $2000, less costs
Seller: starts with a horse worth what they HOPE is $25k, but on day of PPE they discover it’s actually worth $5000 for ex. Its real, verifiable market value can only be meat value at about $0.50/pound, but the tough to pin down values of training/breeding etc are applied slightly arbitrarily. At any rate, what the seller put into the horse is no reflecting on it’s baseline meat value as shown by the scenario where it reduces in value after a PPE. If the seller is a good horse person, they will want to spend some actual cash with a vet to determine the issue.
If the buyer shares all or part of the Dx with the seller, the seller actually saved some money on that aspect, so one could argue that they only HOPED a horse was worth $25k but end of day, they saved $2k on vet fees for a horse that was only ever worth $5000. They just didn’t know it yet…
If they take a nonrefundable 10% deposit, they ALSO gain $2500. It’s not what they hoped to gain, but they still made some $.
At any rate, there’s no denying the disappointment all around.
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Barring some kind of catastrophic finding, I think this is open to too far wide of interpretation. There are dozens of things that can be found on a PPE that the seller and many other people do not consider a big deal, that the buyer can use to pass on the horse. IME, there’s no such thing as a perfectly clean horse, and a PPE isn’t pass or fail, it’s providing information about what maintenance a horse may need now or in the future and determining, as the buyer, what you’re willing to deal with or not. I don’t think it’s fair that a buyer passing for any little PPE finding means the seller should have to give a non-refundable deposit back.
If a seller asked for a non-refundable deposit (i.e. no PPE out) then what incentive do they have to be honest with prior PPE findings? That’s basically a lease fee. Even homes have inspection “outs.” All my humble opinion.
Meanwhile, as seller I had a contract and refundable deposit if PPE was a problem. It took them a month to vet the horse and then a few days before the scheduled vetting, they decided they wanted to cancel the whole thing and wanted their money back. Buyer was an attorney and basically threatened me with that. Meanwhile, I spent more in that month to board, train, shoe and supplement the horse, than the deposit was worth, but I gave her half her money back to stay out of a legal mess. Even though the contract was clear. It can cost money to enforce contracts, and of course she could have done a PPE and said one foot is bigger than the other, so she fails.
The reality is no horse sales are perfect. And as a seller, I would not allow them to take biopsies etc (like a muscle one for PSSM), but they can draw blood and test whatever they want. Anything invasive would be a no.
Meanwhile, lately I’ve just been sticking to the buy side. hahahaha.
I absolutely will refund the entire deposit for any reason after a PPE. If the buyer wants to pass for a silly reason, that is okay because I will have learned something from the PPE. Or if something comes up and the buyer passes, then I know I have something to check with my vet. That is what I gain if the buyer passes on the horse. I have never had a case where a buyer did not release the PPE findings to me, but they don’t have to have a reason to decline. All they have to say is that they changed their mind and I am good with it.
My bottom line is that I never want to sell a horse to someone who doesn’t want it. The horse loses.
I do insist that a PPE occurs within a week of writing the contract. The PPE can be at my farm and I will hold/run flexions at no charge. The buyer can use any vet. If the buyer wants to go to a clinic, then the buyer is responsible to the cost of hauling and returning and my time to be off the farm. I’ll net that expense out of the deposit if they pass or they can pay me for the hauling fee when they pay the balance due on the horse.
I won’t hold a horse off the market indefinitely for a buyer. A week is reasonable.
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It’s genetic, though, so they’ve got it or they don’t–these days if I was selling I’d do the tests and put the results in the listing. (At least for horses selling for real money.) Saves everybody time and aggravation, with people around here wanting to do $10k PPEs on $1500 horses. In particular though it means any PPE they want to do is quick, give 'em five days.
There’s an obvious risk that a buyer who wouldn’t otherwise care would be scared off by seeing it in writing, but lots of people are willing to work with a PSSM horse and at least with me you get points by being up front about it.
Outside the QH world I haven’t seen one horse listed as PSSM tested yet, but I’d be delighted to see it!
