Horse Very Reactive to Tractors, Excavators, Skid steers, etc

[fivestrideline]

If he has ulcers, which the change in behavior indicates, it’ll take more than a week or two of meds to heal them. I believe 30 days is the “standard” but every horse is different, and I’m seeing a lot of people having to do 60-90 days to scope clear. Depends on the horse, environment, triggers, type of ulcers, etc.

IIWM and I didn’t have insurance to scope - treat - scope (the brand will pay for more treatment if the ulcers don’t heal on scope. And insurance pays for the first round), I’d just go ahead and do 30 days and also start a supp like GUT or SmartGut Ultra or aloe juice. If he regresses after giving him a “full round”, I’d be talking to the vet about scoping. But that’s just what I’d do in your shoes!

[RhythmNCruise]

Right. I just ordered 22 more tubes from Valley Vet. That plus the one I had already and the seven I just got from Amazon makes 30. Whew. Luckily, that finishes the spend I needed for a new credit card sign-up bonus and I’ll be getting $300 cash back to help offset the expense! I usually do this stuff to help pay for vacations, but, as the memes say…there’s my Caribbean cruise eating my ski trip.

[Pezanos]

You can get a very, very, very small rebate. https://www.boehringeringelheimequinerebates.com/#/home

[OverandOnward]

Yes, I think maybe it is hard for us to realize from the outside what our horses feel when they get the sudden ulcer pain from a trigger. Plus, that is right where prey animals feel very vulnerable to predators who go for the belly.

And the trigger often doesn’t make sense to us. But the horse feels it.

Their behavior changes tell the story. Ulcers are a big deal, and probably responsible for a lot more horse behavior than we know.

Two things I wish horse people were more broadly educated about because they are probably much more of an issue than most of us know: EPM and Ulcers. I’m in that category of not knowing what I didn’t/don’t know.

[RhythmNCruise]

That makes so much sense.

When Milton was having back spasms a couple of years ago (due to a perfect storm of a poor-fitting saddle, incorrect hoof angles, and a suspected magnesium deficiency…and probably ulcers were already at play too I now suspect), what would normally have either been an ignore or a micro-spook would turn into a huge blow-up. Any little thing would cause him to tense and then his back muscles would go into spasm, and he couldn’t relax for anything. It just snowballed and it was almost like watching him being attacked by something invisible to anyone but him. He’d just lose his mind over…nothing really. It upset me so much because no one seemed to understand that it wasn’t normal (new barn, no one else knew him). I knew he wasn’t legit “scared” of the random things that would set him off. He wasn’t that kind of horse. I knew it had to be something internal. But because he always looked so healthy and I kept him turned out and fed him correctly, etc. I guess I just didn’t think ulcers could be the cause.

After plopping down that hefty charge to my credit card for the Ulcergard, I went to the barn thinking I’d probably find him freaking out over some random thing and my theory of the Ulcergard would be blown and here I had a small fortune’s worth on the way. But, he was quite the chill dude. He had rolled out of his fly mask and was grateful when I returned it to his face. He ate his supper happily and then begged for treats (which he got) until I left him eating hay peacefully with his girlfriend.

Here he is asking if he could get an Outlast cookie to snack on while his girlfriend wasn’t looking (usually there are two heads begging at the feed room door.)

[TheHunterKid90]

In the future to test the ulcer idea you can give equal amounts of Pepto, Aloe Juice and Milk of Magnesia. 20ml each. Twice a day. Try to get one in about 30 min before you ride.
If he improves, he probably needs an ulcer treatment.

[RhythmNCruise]

I’m counting today as another success!

As luck would have it, the weather cleared this afternoon. This was good, because my trimmer could do the horses out in their pasture, which mine definitely prefers. BUT, it also mean the machinery was running. And not only any machinery, the skid steer…the meanest of all the machines according to Milton. And not only was it running, it was working maybe 20 yards away from where he was getting his feet trimmed. Needless to say, he wasn’t exactly thrilled, and my trimmer, who has the patience of a saint and I love, wasn’t thrilled with him pulling feet away (or at least trying to, I think he was only successful once) and wiggling around. BUT it got done with no one the worse for wear.
Afterward, he watched the skid steer work. I put some hay out and he and his girlfriend munched as the skid steer loaded dirt and sand into a new little barn in the next pasture. Milton did walk and trot away and back some, but in a much more relaxed manner than I’d seen. He’d get wound up a little when it was coming towards him (not that it could get him, there was a fence, but he wasn’t sure, lol) and when it would make some loud banging noises as the driver shook the dirt out little by little in spots. But he kept returning and trying to eat (his girlfriend never raised her head, could not be bothered).
Eventually he did retire to the back of the pasture, but he went at a leisurely walk and his gelding buddies beside him went too. He grazed and watched from out there, and when the skid steer went a little farther away, (but still in sight and running, just sitting still) he came back to the front and continued cleaning up some hay. I was getting dinner ready for them by then and his girlfriend was begging at the feed room door. I fed them as usual, put more hay out for the night, and the skid steer was gone before I left. Milton was fine. No lingering worry about it.

I think this is amazing progress. There was a time when he would have lost his mind and NEVER have allowed someone to hold one of his feet up while that thing was near. He would relax when it was out of sight and just running at the other barn/paddock while the worker was shoveling dirt out and spreading it. Milton was totally normal during those times. But when it’d make louder noises or come into view, he’d have to move and would get a bit worried and tense.

I’ll take it. It’s a far cry from him running himself into a sweaty froth, totally unable to relax at all, which is what that thing used to cause.

We’ll see what tomorrow brings. I’m hoping to ride. I got my saddle horn pouch for his treats!

[rockymouse]

I love all this improvement.

For his maintenance in the future, a couple handfuls of alfalfa at each meal really helps maintain the happy belly. In our case, it really is just a couple handfuls, not much at all. If it’s extra windy (which my mare hates), I’ll give her a handful before we ride too, so she has a bit of a buffer in her belly and it’s not just acidic juice sloshing around in there.

[RhythmNCruise]

Yes, I’ve just been thinking about that today.

So, he used to eat alfalfa and alfalfa-timothy cubes back when he was at my place (3.5 years ago). That was the main “feed” for my guys because I had two oldies that couldn’t do regular hay anymore, and Milton just ate what they ate (lucky boy). So he ate…LOTS of alfalfa/timothy cubes (rarely just alfalfa, but sometimes). He always did great on them.

Since then, the times I’ve given him alfalfa hay (Standlee) even just a smallish flake a day, he’s gotten kind of hyped up/reactive on it. I have known at least one horse in my life that absolutely, positively could NOT eat alfalfa because he’d go from the world’s quietest, safest lesson horse to a fire-breathing dragon overnight. I saw it with my own eyes and I know it was the only thing that changed. I was warned it would happen by someone who’d known him a long time, and boy was she right. All to say, I do believe alfalfa can make some horses reactive and spooky.

Currently, Milton eats soaked timothy pellets as a carrier for his forage balancer and other supplements. I’m THINKING about trying to ease him over to alfalfa-timothy pellets starting tomorrow. He’s got about half a bag of straight timothy left, so I can mix them with the alf-tim pellets.

Would the alfalfa-timothy pellets at about 3 pounds a day be enough alfalfa to help him?

[rulex]

I was told it’s the calcium in the alfalfa that helps with the ulcers. But of course you have to weigh the trade offs if it makes your horse hot.

You could also try feeding a handful of Tums before you ride. Or Purina Outlast is another option.

[Bluey]

@rulex

I was told it’s the calcium in the alfalfa that helps with the ulcers. But of course you have to weigh the trade offs if it makes your horse hot.

You could also try feeding a handful of Tums before you ride. Or Purina Outlast is another option.

Latest from The Horse on alfalfa and ulcers:

Alfalfa for Ulcer Prevention in Horses – The Horse

[RhythmNCruise]

Thanks for the link!

I think I’ll ease him over to the alfalfa/timothy pellets and see how that goes. If nothing else, I know he prefers the taste and will be happy to see them, LOL. Not that he doesn’t eat the timothy pellets just fine. He’s a good eater.

I’m trying to research supplements for when he comes off of the Ulcergard. He currently gets:

• KIS Trace
• MagRestore
• Omega Horseshine (2 cups a day now that itchy season has arrived)
• CocoSun Oil (2 pumps a day)
• Probios
• Salt

This with 24/7 turn-out on mediocre to decent pasture, timothy/orchard hay to supplement as needed (20 pounds a day with no pasture, probably on about 15 pounds a day right now as pasture is still limited, hoping to be on 0 pounds a day in a few weeks), and 3 pounds of alfalfa-timothy pellets as the carrier for the above. Oh, and Outlast treats…probably six to eight a day.

I’m hoping this is good enough to keep him in good shape after weaning him off of the Ulcergard. If not, I’m thinking Uckele’s GUT supplement. I really don’t want to add another supplement though. I’m already likely to have to add One AC soon as he tends to stop sweating when the heat/humidity here get in full swing.

Sigh. He’s such a special needs boi.

[fivestrideline]

I’ve had good luck with GUT. The powder isn’t expensive and smells AMAZING (like marshmallows). My picky eater cleans it up. Valley vet has been cheapest so far, but I’ve also gotten it from chewy. Look at the ingredients, you may be able to drop the probios (I can’t remember if it was GUT that has the probiotics or something else I had him on).

[RhythmNCruise]

Yep, I just looked it up and I think I can replace the Probios with GUT. Looks like good stuff.

Thanks for the info!

[rulex]

@RhythmNCruise

alfalfa/timothy pellets

Do you know the composition of the alfalfa vs timothy in the pellets? A friend of mine was feeding alfalfa/timothy cubes and found out there was very little alfalfa in them, like only 10 or 20% and it was only used as a binder for the timothy. Certainly not the 50/50 mix she assumed.

[RhythmNCruise]

I’ve seen two answers to this question by Standlee: one answer said 60 alfalfa/40 timothy and the other said 50/50 alfalfa/timothy. So, that should be good. I bought a bag today and mixed in with the straight timothy pellets that I still had. We’ll see how he does. I know he’s going to be happy because he loves alfalfa. I just don’t need to too “happy” about it. Wheee!!!

He’s just a little tender today after his trim yesterday. Hopefully he’ll be good tomorrow and I can ride.

[RhythmNCruise]

Well, today was the best day EVER!
First, feet weren’t too tender, so I could ride. Still a little “ouch” on rocky or woodsy/rootsy footing now and then, but fine otherwise at all three gears. Yay.
Second, he was like riding the Milton from days of old. Lazy to the core, not bothered by anything, favorite gait is whoa. That’s my boy! I mean since the first day I swung a leg over he’s always been a kick-ride. Our move to this barn is the first time I’ve EVER had him not want to stand still. It was so weird! Ulcers. Man. Who knew?

At the end of our ride, I managed to get him to walk up to the shelter where the skid steer was parked. He tried to talk me out of it by just planting himself and ignoring me. Not upset. Not spooky. Just…nah. No need, Mom. So, I got one step forward, got off, loosened the girth, gave him a treat, and then…led him into the shelter with the skid steer. He had to be very close to it. He did it with no problem. There was another big tractor parked in the back of the shelter (pretty big shelter) and he was fine with that. We stood in there for a minute talking about how brave he is and how unscary those machines actually are. He sighed, licked, chewed, looked bored. So we left.

To top it off, after I untacked, we went to the indoor wash rack. He did NOT enjoy his experience in there last time, but was fine with it today. Ho hum. Enjoyed his shower and the hand grazing that followed.

I don’t want to jinx anything, but I think I have my boy back. Here we are today. One of the sweet ladies that also has an appy boarded at the barn snapped this of us at the beginning of our ride. Happy horse. Happy rider.

[OverandOnward]

Such a handsome boy!

Looks like an “I got this” expression on his wise face.

[endlessclimb]

Hooray! What a nice pic, and ten cheers for a good ride!

[RhythmNCruise]

@OverandOnward

Looks like an “I got this” expression on his wise face.

It beats the expression in this one…LOL: