I like this idea - that maybe with the extra weight on her back she hasn’t been able to balance herself. That would make sense considering it took my trainer a lot of consistency to get her to canter. She was broke by her breeders, shown at halter at 2 or3 (I believe?), sold to a woman who wanted a dressage horse, and then began training the basics again when she landed in my trainer’s hands.
Haha you don’t have to be nice about it! Although I wouldn’t consider myself a great rider by any means, I have never had an issue picking up the canter with other green-broke to broke horses from various barns I’ve ridden. Still, it could be something I’m doing that is bothering her, I definitely wouldn’t rule that out! My trainer hasn’t ridden her for me yet because she says there won’t be different results, as my mare was able to canter due to a consistent training program. I asked her about it, and she said she will if it’ll help me. Thanks !!
This is going to be a super long post, apologies in advance!!
I believe it might have something to do with discomfort - She’s been ridden in many saddles throughout her life with no improvements in her behaviour. I’m not exactly sure what that means for her, but I want to get a veterinary opinion.
She has a lovely canter when lunging - Collects and lengthens based on the tone I use when saying “trot;” accepts the bit nicely, rounds up, all that jazz. After warming up, she will pick up the transition within 5 seconds of me asking.
Honestly, not many. I’ve only recently began having success with her trot; at one point we did some figure 8 exercises to work on moving off the leg and bending. I’m not sure she’s ready for much else yet, and don’t want to set her up for failure. I tried some leg yields with her the other day and to my surprise, she was quite good with them. Shoulder in, I’ve made a slight attempt to see how she’d react and she didn’t totally understand.
I’ll upload some videos and put a link to them as soon as I’m able; hopefully sometime tonight.
Not super educated about the saddle seat world, but I think you’re correct? She was never shown saddle seat, just at halter by her breeders as a young horse and then fell into the hands of a dressage rider who had issues with her.
She was never a driving horse, interestingly enough. I’ve asked my trainer to canter her for me, but she says she won’t have much success due to her past success being based on a consistent training schedule.
This usually results in her bucking and throwing her head back - the second she thinks we will ask for the canter, even if it’s just my trainer saying 'ready?" before giving the cue, she reacts negatively. But your advice about transitions makes me think. I do a lot of transitions on the lunge, but not many under saddle…
We don’t have a huge arena, but it’s not super cramped; I’ve brought her outside a few times and she gets very excitable, sometimes explosive, and quite distracted. I will keep working at it, though. 
This is how we are doing it at the moment, with me keeping very light contact with my hands and legs. My trainer gives the cue, and thats usually when she starts bucking - as soon as she realizes we expect the canter.
I haven’t tried something like this yet, but am wondering if I would be setting her up for failure. She’s never jumped and I was the first to start training her over poles, and she isn’t quite confident enough in her trot (I’m worried I would get the same reaction as when I ask for the canter.) It makes a lot of sense, though - I’ll see how she does with jumping on the line and then bring this idea up to my trainer. Thanks!
See, that’s what I thought, and I asked my trainer what she did to get her to canter; she said there was no magic, just consistency in riding out the bucks (which honestly aren’t big enough to be dangerous) and not backing down, as her previous owner would give up and get off any time my mare displayed a ‘worrying’ behaviour.
This would definitely help figure out whether its an added-weight issue or a fear issue, I like the idea. If I try it I’ll post a video!
Thank you guys so much for the help - seems like this is a very kind community. I honestly just want the best for my mare, and I’ll do whatever is financially possible to figure out what is causing her discomfort. If anything shows up, I will update!!
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You need this stuff in hand and undersaddle to help her get that canter. That is dressage training at its finest. If youre trsiner doesnt know how to do this then send her to a different pro for 30 days - or even 2 weeks. Sounds like a lack of education.
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This doesn’t make much sense to me. I agree consistency is important, but I don’t see the downside of your trainer getting on her. Is your trainer unwilling to ride out the bucking?
I agree if her previous owner got off every time the horse bucked and played, this could “teach” her it’s a way of getting out of work.
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Something here definitely doesn’t add up. Besides checking for physical issues, I would go back to more basic things. You say you’ve only “had some success at the trot” what do you mean by this?
I agree you need a different trainer. If your trainer is unwilling to even ride her, something is not ok there.
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Please post the video with the horse carting Mr. Effigy around. Sometimes the movement on their backs scares a horse and they need to be comfortable with something moving on their back.
I looked at your first video
This horse is very long-backed with a ewe neck and “under-neck muscle.” The canter has no bascule and is inverted…probably because the has no muscles in its top line.
Depending on how it is being asked to canter, it might not be able to sustain an “on the bit” or “round” canter…and this might be why the horse objects to cantering with a rider.
You might want to see what the horse does when asked to trot over poles on the lunge line, without anything on its back. This would give you some idea of how the horse uses its body…does it pick up its legs, or trip, stumble over the poles?
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I think it would help you to see what your mare is doing when asked for the canter with a rider on her back.
Sorry, bi just watched the video and i agree with @pluvinel, I think working on lifting her back and building her top line is the first step. She doesn’t look like she used her back until the very end when she dropped her head and relaxed a lot.
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Thanks for posting the video.
Providing you’ve ruled out soundness or pain issues…
I ride a lot of very green horses and to me, your horse looks like it would benefit from being bitted up properly in a surcingle and side reins so it starts to learn how to use its body when it canters. Right now its head is really elevated (part of that is its breeding), its back is hollow and it’s pulling itself into a canter rather than being round and pushing itself into the canter from behind. It’s really difficult to get a horse like that into a canter under saddle because you’re essentially chasing it from a discombobulated, fast trot into a rushed gallop. There is no “canter” yet to be had.
If I were assigned to canter this horse, I’d start by working it in properly adjusted side reins and a surcingle on the line or in a round pen for a while so that it learns to use its body correctly and remain balanced when it canters. Then the horse must learn to go forward from your leg AT ALL COSTS. It sounds like your horse not only lacks some basics and developed some bad habits, but also learned to evade the past owner’s aids. 
As it’s been said already on this thread: If your trainer is either too busy, too expensive(?) or plain not interested in schooling your horse and then riding it for a few weeks, then consider finding another pro who can. Even if it’s just temporary to get it past this issue.
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I don’t believe in “riding out bucks”…basically because my horses are not allowed to buck…Ever!!! Neither on the lunge, in hand, or under saddle.
You need to make the horse comfortable…both physically and mentally and it will freely offer to canter. If the horse is unwilling to canter, then there is a mental of physical issue.
It is a trainer’s job to figure it out. “It” being any resistances a horse offers. It is confuses? Is it physically incapable? Is it not understanding what is being asked? It does not seem like your trainer had the skills to interpret what the horse is saying.
I got into a big discussion with a French Cadre Noir rider who wanted to teach my horse the “capriole” and “croupade”…the croupade is basically a buck on command…I said, “No way, no how.”
Picture of a classic croupade in-hand
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This is an interesting response. If the trainer is unable to get the response she wants from the horse, there is a problem somewhere else in the training.
I would agree with going back to a total restart.
I’d also consider Tristan Tucker’s method of teaching the horse to find security because I think you have some other problems with a horse who is running from the bit and not forward from the leg.
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I totally understand your position, and think it’s a solid one!
Watching the video, I can absolutely see how this horse would not be able to find balance with a rider. The hind end is out behind and the neck is up, but if you add a mass behind that upright neck, the horse has no option but to fall in to maintain balance since the hind end is not carrying.
I agree that this horse needs some time lengthening the topline and building some back strength so she can find the strength to carry. Even 100lbs is a lot for a horse who is not naturally balanced.
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Take her where they can get high quality X-rays of her back. Bucking, not wanting to go forward, inverted, worse with the rider, it all sounds like pain.
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Canter requires the shoulders to lift. Horse needs shoulder work. Send the horse to a dressage pro or haul out to some clinics. Or see if your trainer is comfortable letting someone else come onsite to give you lessons.
I mean, your trainer takes lessons too right?
I agree that that horse is not ready for a rider to sit on the back with canter.
I am another who suggests correctly used side reins. It is not side reins that kill and maim horses. It is incorrectly used side reins that kill and maim horses.
If you do not know how to use side reins on the lunge you need to be taught.
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Maybe an unpopular opinion but I don’t really think side reins are going to help at this stage. I think she will find ways to avoid working correctly at this point.
OP, I would get X-rays of the spine. The tension, neck position, lack of impulsion and behavioral issues tell my gut something more is going on.
Once a vet has cleared her, I would take this mare out on long rein, hacking hills and various terrain while teaching her to round and work over the back. Until she is taught to carry herself differently, I don’t feel you will have much success cantering (etc) under saddle. Horses that carry themselves this way (inverted, IE. head in the air with back and hind end disengaged) are going to be more challenging to teach to utilize their back properly but if sound, it most certainly can be done.
ETA picture. Low and low and working over the back up and down hills, over ground poles, etc. Not the greatest picture but emphasis on engaging and lifting the back. I suspect she can get into frame without utilizing her back.
Do you have access to someone that perhaps physically rehabilitates horses and who understands how to develop a horse? Or perhaps a near by dressage rider? If sound, I feel as though your trainer should have made much more progress. If there are soundness issues, however, then that would certainly explain why the trainer hasn’t been very successful.
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When teaching a young or green horse to canter, it is not about sustaining the canter, but about the quality. Aim for a good depart, and then back down to trot after a stride or two. Sustaining in the canter comes with strength. Depart and two strides, to three strides, to five strides, to half a circle, etc. And only canter after the horse is fit enough to handle 30 minutes of under saddle work at an energetic walk and trot, into contact, and offering a round frame and open throatlatch.
I have had great success teaching my horses to canter on long lines, and with correctly adjusted running side reins. They are there for lateral balance and to encourage the horse to work over its back. Do not clamp the horse down with side reins. If you are not comfortable using either, find a trainer who can teach you.
I would echo all previous posts about investigating sources of pain. When I have a horse who struggles the canter, I think back, SI, stifles and hocks… and possible NPA in the hinds, which would impact all of those joints. If your horse was in training with someone for 6 months, and still has an upside-down neck and wasted topline, something is amiss physically… and you might need a new trainer. Best of luck!
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After watching the video, I would find a new trainer.
She needs to get rid of her anxiety that is causing her to upside down. In hand work and teaching her how to use herself properly and pole work. Then get outside and walk/trot and get her pushing from behind. Ignore her head and focus on her hind end. Plus she is very under muscled. I would get a good vet check on her back end as well.
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