Being a vegan, no. But I could never marry a guy who didn’t eat meat (or otherwise have a bigger/healthier appetite than me). Nothing better than marrying an Italian 
But about the “people shouldn’t be allowed to ride horses and they should be wild”, yes. Run very very far. Sounds like he is along the lines of a crazy PETA person.
[QUOTE=OveroHunter;8892230]
My immediate thought is yes, you’re doomed… but vegans make me :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
I’m just trying to imagine my big, fat, spoiled rotten horses in the wild… They’d die…[/QUOTE]
Tell me about! Lucky considers it hardship duty if it’s summer, the grass is fine, and we don’t put out any hay in turnout (he likes hay. He wants hay.)
I agree, doomed. If he’s THAT KIND of vegan (not for semi-valid “health” reasons, or misplaced concern about the environment, but “ANIMALS ARE PEOPLE WITH RIGHTS!”) you’re never going to convert him to from thinking horses aren’t mentally writing their own version of “Amistad” every time you haul them to a horse show. He’s a religious vegan. He’s not going to revise his opinion of horses as a victim group, even if you sacrificed being an omnivore in an attempt at compromise. You’d have better luck converting an ISIS radical or a Pentecostal snake-handler.
Hmm it sounds to me like people are very aggressive against vegans. I don’t think OveroHunter and Danceronice are right. And being aggressive will not change anything. Why don’t you accept that vegans have their own opinion?? Why do you say they are vegan for semi-valid "health"reasons old misplaced concern about the environment??? What gives you the right to say that???
In fact concern about the environment is one of my reasons for being vegan and I would like you to prove me wrong, because you can’t… And I guess its nice that people can block out animal suffering just they like to eat meat. I guess its ok that male baby chicken are shredded just because you want to eat your breakfast scrambled egg… If you are not able to accept another position on things what gives you the right to be aggressive??? because you are part of the majority??
[QUOTE=junebug;8891952]
I know this topic has been discussed and I’ve read some threads, but this adds an additional twist.
I’ve recently met a guy who I was beginning to like a lot - way more than I’ve liked anyone else in awhile and it seems to be mutual:) He is vegan, which to me is a bit of an annoyance, but not a deal breaker (I don’t eat much meat, but I’m not giving up cheese/butter/fish/etc) Then the topic of my horse ownership came up. He said he doesn’t think horses should be ridden and that they should all be wild. I have ridden most of my life. It’s not my profession, but my life revolves around horses (my time, my social life, what I like to talk about…) I do lower level eventing and have a very talented young horse. There is absolutely no way I’m giving up horses nor do I want to feel guilty about something that is a major part of my life. We have not had an opportunity to discuss this, so I can’t say exactly what his thoughts are, but it’s enough to have cooled me off on him for now.
Is this relationship doomed?[/QUOTE]
Vegan is one thing, PETA “pets are slaves” is a whole nuther thing. You can be vegan without being PETA.
As other posters have pointed out, boy knows nothing about horses if he says they should all be “wild.” Except for zebras and przewalski’s horse, which are different species from our riding horse, wild horses don’t really exist. The North American wild horses are feral domesticated horses, just like alley cats and street dogs are feral domestic animals. They aren’t true wild animals like deer or bears.
Domestic animals bond with humans, as we all know, in very complex and interesting ways. No one would say that a pet dog would be happier living loose in a forest, than following his adored owner around the house. Horses have more potential self-sufficiency than many breeds of dog, but they are often very happy with their people and their jobs, if they are treated well.
IMO, someone who says they “love animals” but doesn’t understand the potential relationships between humans and animals, doesn’t really love animals that much.
Boy needs to understand that the horse part is non-negotiable.
The other thing is, where do you see this going? When people get into couples, basically the person with the strongest, wierdest, or most limiting food regimen gets to set the agenda for what both of you eat. Are you willing to eat vegan for the rest of your life, if you fall in love with him?
I was a vegan for a bit, about six months, to promote cleaner eating habits. I have no issues with vegans and I have no issues with meat eaters. I have good friends who are vegans and they dont have an issue with my horses. Heck one of my friends is a vegan rider.
I believe that vegans and PETA people are two different kettles of fish though. I dont particularly like PETA people as they usually talk without knowing the facts and they just dont care about the facts in most cases. He sort of sounds like this kind of guy.
He could be the type of person who holds it over your head that he thinks youre injust to your horse because its not living in the wild. Maybe let him check out some of those wild mustangs and he will realize how well your horse has it. If hes the guy who lets things go and doesnt guilt trip you then maybe it will work out. Good luck to you.
I’d say you’re doomed. Not so much because of the vegan thing, but because of the PETA mentality.
I dated a vegan, we’re still friends, but live in different provinces so we don’t see each other much. He’s a great cook so I didn’t mind eating vegan with him. He decided to go vegan because he couldn’t justify eating meat/eggs/cheese without knowing exactly how the animals were raised and treated. He often said if he ever bought his own farm he would probably start raising his own animals and stop the veganism.
He understands the human animal interaction though. His family has a couple dogs and cats, they’re super outdoorsy and bring the dogs everywhere with them.
Good luck.
Yes. Let’s not tie veganism to PETAism. Like I said, my brother is a vegan and is so because he believes humans don’t need to nourish themselves at the expense of animals. He also uses cruelty free products and is environmentally conscious. But he loves animals and sharing his life with them and appreciates the bond and relationships humans and animals can have. He’s never once said he thought my horses should run free.
I have another friend who is vegan and big into animal welfare, but, again, loves the bond that we can have with animals. No issues with riding, as long as it is done without abuse (don’t we all want that?).
My “craziest” vegan/PETA friend loves animals and has them and has done some amazingly great work for their sake, but we definitely don’t see eye to eye on some things. I know she doesn’t think horses should be ridden, though I don’t think she goes quite so far as to think they should run free. Vegan doesn’t immediately equal crazy PETA person.
And to whoever said “cook a lot of bacon around him”…charming. I get vegans can be obnoxious, but meat eaters can be, too. And that’s obnoxious.
Many people who think horses “should be wild” have never actually interacted with any horses, and are just going on daffy romanticism of one kind or another.
Has your new friend met your horse yet? I’d bring them together and see what happens.
I know several horsey Vegans, and they’re just like anybody else. If I were you, I don’t think I’d panic just yet.
OP - IMO, if a prospective partner is not into horses, relationship can still work. If, however, that person is not SUPPORTIVE of your interests, the relationship is likely doomed. This is the case, vegan or not.
So if this guy won’t be able to say “hey, go to the barn and have fun see you in 3 hours” or “hope you do really well at show” you are doomed.
I married a guy who said “oh, horsie, ok” but it became the focal point of every fight we had. grumbled about time and money spent. Sold that first horse, but he still didn’t feel like he had enough control over my life so we split.
I have a very good girlfriend who is a vegan. She really found it hard dating non-vegans. Her comment was that there tended to be barriers with values that went well beyond the issue of where/what one could eat together. Luckily she met a really lovely vegan man and married him. And they don’t mind enslaving cats, so that is good, too.
OP, just tell him exactly what you said to us. Explain that horses are a huge part of your life, and if he can’t be supportive of that then you think you should end this before it goes further. Better to have a real discussion with him on this before you get any more invested in the relationship.
[QUOTE=junebug;8891952]
I know this topic has been discussed and I’ve read some threads, but this adds an additional twist.
I’ve recently met a guy who I was beginning to like a lot - way more than I’ve liked anyone else in awhile and it seems to be mutual:) He is vegan, which to me is a bit of an annoyance, but not a deal breaker (I don’t eat much meat, but I’m not giving up cheese/butter/fish/etc) Then the topic of my horse ownership came up. He said he doesn’t think horses should be ridden and that they should all be wild. I have ridden most of my life. It’s not my profession, but my life revolves around horses (my time, my social life, what I like to talk about…) I do lower level eventing and have a very talented young horse. There is absolutely no way I’m giving up horses nor do I want to feel guilty about something that is a major part of my life. We have not had an opportunity to discuss this, so I can’t say exactly what his thoughts are, but it’s enough to have cooled me off on him for now.
Is this relationship doomed?[/QUOTE]
It all boils down to respect. Period. As you proceed in any dating relationship, you’ll find that if the guy respects you, then that respect will be shown in many ways, like by his allowing you to enjoy your pursuits without control, criticism, ridicule, or other types of negativity. If you respect him, you will do the same thing. If he has self-respect, he won’t have the need to control or demean you in any way. I don’t believe a relationship can be healthy without respect.
In this dating situation, the path could go various ways:
He comes with you to the barn and learns that most horses, when treated well, are just fine with saddles and bridles and humans on their back, and behind them in wagons. He may be just uneducated. (When I show up to the barn, my mare is all pointy ears and nickers, happy to see me. If your horse does that, show him.) In this scenario, he learns and adjusts his view.
He comes to the barn and wants to throw the stall doors and gates open, doesn’t learn, doesn’t want to learn, but is still okay with you, respects you, so refrains from opening doors and gates.
Only reason he doesn’t throw gates and doors open is fear of criminal prosecution. Calls you an abuser when you saddle up, etc. Wants to control you and insists you to at least sell your horse and get into stock-car racing with him.
There are shades of gray between these three examples.
You didn’t, but others have brought up PETA, so if he is a PETA freak, you might go to YouTube and show him the video where they stole a kids dog off the porch and killed it because death is better than enslavement. See how he reacts.
[URL=“https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9tWoFiFX4s”]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9tWoFiFX4s
https://www.petakillsanimals.com/
That he might have been brainwashed is possible. And it might be a faze he’s going through. Who knows? This plan of yours sounds good. It sounds like he really doesn’t know horses. And if he eventually helps you buy ALL the thoroughbreds, you will be very broke, and very busy! :lol:
[QUOTE=Scribbler;8892645]Vegan is one thing, PETA “pets are slaves” is a whole nuther thing. You can be vegan without being PETA. (…)
Domestic animals bond with humans, as we all know, in very complex and interesting ways. No one would say that a pet dog would be happier living loose in a forest, than following his adored owner around the house. Horses have more potential self-sufficiency than many breeds of dog, but they are often very happy with their people and their jobs, if they are treated well.
IMO, someone who says they “love animals” but doesn’t understand the potential relationships between humans and animals, doesn’t really love animals that much.[/QUOTE]
I think many people who don’t know horses have an image in their head about them derived from photos of mustangs running in the wild, or just horse photography in general. When someone knows a ~little~ about horses, they think, “Well, a horse eats grass, so they can live just fine wherever there is grass.” and not even understand a bit about what domestic horses really need to be healthy, or about the bond a horse and a human can have.
Boy do those cats have your friend bamboozled!!
Here is an interesting article:
http://time.com/4252373/meat-eating-veganism-evolution/
Since you say he may be more the brain washed vegan type, you could present him with this or other such.
Then, according to his reaction to that kind of plain, factual information, you can tell more, if he is following a religion and believing what he is told, or has really thought about this all past taking other’s words as true that just may not be what they think.
As for environmental or animal welfare issues, the “abuse” card, that is easy to dismiss, separate both.
Proper use is not abuse, something many vegans have not figured out yet.
Not any more than because some families abuse their kids, human parents are all abusers.
Now, as others have mentioned, if someone thinks having any interaction with animals is abuse, then all bets are off there, just as those animal rights extremist fanatics that think the world would be better off without humans so no animal would be abused.
Depending on which degree of out there vegan ideology he follows, you may do ok with a little compromise, or it will be too hard to meet in the middle.
^Would you really want to start a propaganda war with a guy you barely know?
I understand that this forum has a serious anti-Vegan/anti-PETA bias, but seriously - the poor guy probably doesn’t need deprogramming.
This might be an interesting read for him, if he’s willing to be educated.
https://www.facebook.com/saltriverwildhorsemanagementgroup/posts/1071469492935808
And that is what it’s about - educating and having an open mind. If he’s willing to admit he doesn’t have firsthand knowledge, be willing to start conversations as you would with a green-as-grass child.
(Pro tip: do not start with the cool lit-from-within circulatory model of the horse’s hoof. Mr 2HG did not take to it well, and now I can’t bring home the horse’s skull with teeth from one friend that she + I are loaning to an instructor/trainer friend of mine. Hoping my bosses won’t get curious about the box in the corner of my office…:winkgrin: )
We’ve all had negative and positive encounters with members of ANY group (law enforcement, vegans, natural horsemanshippers, used car salespeople, retail workers, etc.), and it’s unfair to prejudge an individual on what might be the poorest representatives of the group.
From your comments, it sounds like he has a glimmer of hope. Good luck!
[QUOTE=Red Barn;8893104]
^Would you really want to start a propaganda war with a guy you barely know?
I understand that this forum has a serious anti-Vegan/anti-PETA bias, but seriously - the poor guy probably doesn’t need deprogramming.[/QUOTE]
I agree. I don’t try to change people. If the relationship doesn’t work out, then you will find someone else. I have quit eating most meats over the years, and I understand vegans and PETA and sympathize with them, but I use leather, and I eat cheese. But I won’t eat meat now because of factory farming. I’ve visited factory farms and have seen the suffering. Meat eaters should eat free range. I don’t lecture my friends but I don’t eat the meat when I go to their parties for dinner. We respect each other. That’s how we get along. Growing up, my parents fed me meat from a specialty grocery store that had it’s own family farm and grew all its free range meat. The farm was about 40 miles from their grocery store in town.
My giving up meat started after I was in a big wreck. My sense of smell hightened and turkey began to stink. So I gave up turkey, and gradually gave up other meats. When it stinks, even cooked, it’s time to give it up.
[QUOTE=Manni01;8892625]
Hmm it sounds to me like people are very aggressive against vegans. I don’t think OveroHunter and Danceronice are right. And being aggressive will not change anything. Why don’t you accept that vegans have their own opinion?? Why do you say they are vegan for semi-valid "health"reasons old misplaced concern about the environment??? What gives you the right to say that???
In fact concern about the environment is one of my reasons for being vegan and I would like you to prove me wrong, because you can’t… And I guess its nice that people can block out animal suffering just they like to eat meat. I guess its ok that male baby chicken are shredded just because you want to eat your breakfast scrambled egg… If you are not able to accept another position on things what gives you the right to be aggressive??? because you are part of the majority??[/QUOTE]
Many people are fed up with vegans (pardon the pun) because their “movement” is mostly just about VIRTUE-SIGNALLING. It’s a way to put themselves on a holier-than-thou pedestal and preach to the unenlightened about how much kinder, smarter, and (holy of holies) “healthier” they are than you. As in, “special snowflake” worthy of extra attention everywhere they sit down to a meal. COLOSSAL PITA and bore!
The health claim has been debunked by medical authorities so thoroughly that a family in last week’s news was actually charged with child abuse for feeding a young child strictly vegan. The developing brain requires proteins and long-chain fatty acids that can ONLY be obtained from animal products, and that is a fact. It’s also documented that vegans (and even vegetarians) get a lot more cancer. Check out the statistics from the different cultural regions of India for historical proof. Vegans are known to be at very unnecessary risk of multiple deficiency diseases.
It’s an undisputed evolutionary FACT that humans in the most actively formative years of their evolution ate more meat than anything else–the entire duration of the various glaciation periods, during which time that more carnivorous diet grew our larger brains which wound up differentiating us physically and intellectually us from the other great apes. Gut-to-brain size ratio for carnivores (dogs, cats, humans) is very different from that of herbivores. And we cannot digest cellulose, from which nearly all plant matter is composed. That’s why your horse has a “hind-gut” or cecum.
The “environmental” angle for veganism signals nothing but ignorance and overexposure to the web sites of certain dot-orgs; the fact is that we are now growing MUCH more and better food on MUCH less land the world over, and doing it better and cleaner every day. It is IMPOSSIBLE to be alive without all of us impacting “the environment” in various ways. Bet the dude drives, flies, has central heat, a TV and a cell phone, and you too Manni01! :rolleyes:
It seems to me that a lot of these New Secular Religions are symptomatic of the “sheltered” generation never really having been taught the FACTS OF LIFE, possibly due to the modern urban disconnect from the land and natural reality. This should in no way be confused with most of us who believe (rightly) that ALL animals should be raised, kept and handled humanely and responsibly.
Denial of the facts of life (birth, sex, food, aging, death) however supposedly well-intentioned, does not change them. And a LOT of us have frankly heard QUITE enough from “Generation Snowflake.”
If horses were not being bred, raised and trained for sport and companionship, there would BE no horses. If not for food animals and modern agriculture, the human species might very well be extinct or on the way to it by now.
OP, there are many, MANY people out there with whom to form a relationship without the challenge of pseudo-religious, delusional beliefs coming between you. Enjoy your horse (and your steak) without guilt please!
I don’t think veganism is the issue as much as his belief you shouldn’t ride horses.
I have plenty of vegan friends who ride. The two are not coextensive beliefs at all. Of course several use synthetic tack, etc. but I consider that laudable, though I am not a vegan and eat plenty of meat – and love my leather tack!
[QUOTE=fordtraktor;8893140]
I don’t think veganism is the issue as much as his belief you shouldn’t ride horses.
I have plenty of vegan friends who ride. The two are not coextensive beliefs at all. Of course several use synthetic tack, etc. but I consider that laudable, though I am not a vegan and eat plenty of meat – and love my leather tack![/QUOTE]
I would say that yes, vegan and the idea that any use of animals by humans is wrong are antagonistic with, well, see the definition of vegan, antagonistic with ANY use of animals.
Any other is waffling around that fact, which plenty vegans do, because they have to.
As others have stated, we can’t be part of this world as the humans we are without, if by intent or happenstance, being part of all the different ways we use animals.
We evolved using animals and still use animals in so, so many ways, is what makes our world what it is.
The OP will have to weigh to what extent that fellow is willing to accept her use of animals, here having horses to ride.
That will depend on how committed they both want to become to each other.
I agree that their differences there are a big obstacle, someone is going to have to give, her the horses, or him that riding is objectionable and horse abuse.
[QUOTE=Lady Eboshi;8893127]
Many people are fed up with vegans (pardon the pun) because their “movement” is mostly just about VIRTUE-SIGNALLING. It’s a way to put themselves on a holier-than-thou pedestal and preach to the unenlightened about how much kinder, smarter, and (holy of holies) “healthier” they are than you. As in, “special snowflake” worthy of extra attention everywhere they sit down to a meal. COLOSSAL PITA and bore!
The health claim has been debunked by medical authorities so thoroughly that a family in last week’s news was actually charged with child abuse for feeding a young child strictly vegan. The developing brain requires proteins and long-chain fatty acids that can ONLY be obtained from animal products, and that is a fact. It’s also documented that vegans (and even vegetarians) get a lot more cancer. Check out the statistics from the different cultural regions of India for historical proof. Vegans are known to be at very unnecessary risk of multiple deficiency diseases.
It’s an undisputed evolutionary FACT that humans in the most actively formative years of their evolution ate more meat than anything else–the entire duration of the various glaciation periods, during which time that more carnivorous diet grew our larger brains which wound up differentiating us physically and intellectually us from the other great apes. Gut-to-brain size ratio for carnivores (dogs, cats, humans) is very different from that of herbivores. And we cannot digest cellulose, from which nearly all plant matter is composed. That’s why your horse has a “hind-gut” or cecum.
The “environmental” angle for veganism signals nothing but ignorance and overexposure to the web sites of certain dot-orgs; the fact is that we are now growing MUCH more and better food on MUCH less land the world over, and doing it better and cleaner every day. It is IMPOSSIBLE to be alive without all of us impacting “the environment” in various ways. Bet the dude drives, flies, has central heat, a TV and a cell phone, and you too Manni01! :rolleyes:
It seems to me that a lot of these New Secular Religions are symptomatic of the “sheltered” generation never really having been taught the FACTS OF LIFE, possibly due to the modern urban disconnect from the land and natural reality. This should in no way be confused with most of us who believe (rightly) that ALL animals should be raised, kept and handled humanely and responsibly.
Denial of the facts of life (birth, sex, food, aging, death) however supposedly well-intentioned, does not change them. And a LOT of us have frankly heard QUITE enough from “Generation Snowflake.”
If horses were not being bred, raised and trained for sport and companionship, there would BE no horses. If not for food animals and modern agriculture, the human species might very well be extinct or on the way to it by now.
OP, there are many, MANY people out there with whom to form a relationship without the challenge of pseudo-religious, delusional beliefs coming between you. Enjoy your horse (and your steak) without guilt please![/QUOTE]
Wow you put a lot of effort into your post. And I bolded some paragraphs… The third bolded one is the most doubtable to me. Yes obviously you want animals to be kept right but please don’t tell me that you never go to any restaurants, buy milk and eggs only from the farmer around the corner where you see the animals living a happy live and so on. I am pretty sure you don’t do this and than you have now idea how the animals or animal products you eat are treated before they ended up on your plate. Its your thing how you feel, but please give me at least the right to feel how I want to feel… And the first bolded paragraph is very interesting as well, why do you think vegans are kinder or smarter or what so ever??? Did anybody say that??? Why do you imply they are?? I think they have the right to think how they think without being accused that they are conceited…
Did you even know before that I am vegan??? Did I ever try to convince anybody?? So please consider what you write…
And the second bolded paragraph…Ha Ha… The rainforest is killed more everyday to provide food for all the beef which needs to be raised for all the people eating it. Eating meat will eventually kill the environment together with all the other bad things we do. And IMO (thats my very personal opinion and I think I have the right to have this opinion) its one of the easier things to help to protect the environment if you stop eating meat… The rest is much trickier to change…
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