Horseback rider + vegan?

[Alagirl]

[QUOTE=Manni01;8892625]
Hmm it sounds to me like people are very aggressive against vegans. I don’t think OveroHunter and Danceronice are right. And being aggressive will not change anything. Why don’t you accept that vegans have their own opinion?? Why do you say they are vegan for semi-valid "health"reasons old misplaced concern about the environment??? What gives you the right to say that???
In fact concern about the environment is one of my reasons for being vegan and I would like you to prove me wrong, because you can’t… And I guess its nice that people can block out animal suffering just they like to eat meat. I guess its ok that male baby chicken are shredded just because you want to eat your breakfast scrambled egg… If you are not able to accept another position on things what gives you the right to be aggressive??? because you are part of the majority??[/QUOTE]

well, opinions are like, you know what.

The point is not about him being vegan, the point is that he has an opinion on her horse owning which contradicts hers.

And since this is a horse forum, we have seen this happening before.

Chances are this guy won’t be ‘converted’ to seeing the reality of ‘enslaved’ horses. That’s pretty much PETA material.

I find ‘veganism’ rather dumb. I mean, the extended ideology, not the diet.
You think any animal use is off limits, you better stop driving your car: Fossil fuels are animals, too!
and that leaves you with pretty much nothing, because it all is connected, either by gas or animal use to produce it.
Unless you can find real rubber, made with only plants, not gas or oil (for heat and energy) and shipped on sailing ships.
And of course, you need to go back to hand picked, ginned and spun cotton…

It all depends on the ideology.

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=Manni01;8893179]
Wow you put a lot of effort into your post. And I bolded some paragraphs… The third bolded one is the most doubtable to me. Yes obviously you want animals to be kept right but please don’t tell me that you never go to any restaurants, buy milk and eggs only from the farmer around the corner where you see the animals living a happy live and so on. I am pretty sure you don’t do this and than you have now idea how the animals or animal products you eat are treated before they ended up on your plate. Its your thing how you feel, but please give me at least the right to feel how I want to feel… And the first bolded paragraph is very interesting as well, why do you think vegans are kinder or smarter or what so ever??? Did anybody say that??? Why do you imply they are?? I think they have the right to think how they think without being accused that they are conceited…
Did you even know before that I am vegan??? Did I ever try to convince anybody?? So please consider what you write…

And the second bolded paragraph…Ha Ha… The rainforest is killed more everyday to provide food for all the beef which needs to be raised for all the people eating it. Eating meat will eventually kill the environment together with all the other bad things we do. And IMO (thats my very personal opinion and I think I have the right to have this opinion) its one of the easier things to help to protect the environment if you stop eating meat… The rest is much trickier to change…[/QUOTE]

You do know that some of that is not true, do you?

The rainforest is a human construct, the native tribes were the ones that dammed the land for millennia and made it the huge waterlogged land it is today, for their own purposes.

Yes, it is still important to so much, so governments are trying to protect it.
They do give permits to clear cut and farm, yes, farm for soybeans and such crops, that today there is a huge demand of, that is what vegetarians and vegans live off, I think?

The land is, when first cleared, used to graze cattle because they clean it up for farming, better than using herbicides to kill that vegetation, I would say?

Well, that is just one of the myths vegans love to bandy around, horrible those cattle that destroy the rain forest, save the rain forest, the next cause of the moment to donate to!

As for how animals are raised, unless someone is the one spending their life taking care of them, they really are not a good judge of what those animals like and thrive under, for the animals they are.
We ought to know better here, how many have had someone ask if we blindfold horses to they won’t jump out of the pastures, if those horses laying there are dead?

[Red_Barn]

@Bluey;8893168

I would say that yes, vegan and the idea that any use of animals by humans is wrong are antagonistic with, well, see the definition of vegan, antagonistic with ANY use of animals.
Any other is waffling around that fact, which plenty vegans do, because they have to.

This is simply not true.

I’ve been reading your posts for years, Bluey, and generally like them a lot. I can see that you know a hell of a lot about horses, and have heaps of common sense - about everything except this topic.

I almost never even visit the forum any more, because I think you and a few others are creating massive social conflicts where none need exist.

I wish you all would stop, but I know you won’t - which is a real shame for everyone concerned. :no:

[Manni01]

[QUOTE=Alagirl;8893181]
well, opinions are like, you know what.

The point is not about him being vegan, the point is that he has an opinion on her horse owning which contradicts hers.

And since this is a horse forum, we have seen this happening before.

Chances are this guy won’t be ‘converted’ to seeing the reality of ‘enslaved’ horses. That’s pretty much PETA material.

I find ‘veganism’ rather dumb. I mean, the extended ideology, not the diet.
You think any animal use is off limits, you better stop driving your car: Fossil fuels are animals, too!
and that leaves you with pretty much nothing, because it all is connected, either by gas or animal use to produce it.
Unless you can find real rubber, made with only plants, not gas or oil (for heat and energy) and shipped on sailing ships.
And of course, you need to go back to hand picked, ginned and spun cotton…

It all depends on the ideology.[/QUOTE]

Maybe you didn’t read my post?? I answered directly to OveroHunter and Danceronice.

And about the original post… By now I think the relationship is doomed. A relationship is only thriving if both persons will do something for it. I have no idea whether the guy will give anything, there was not enough information about it but the girl sounded like she was not willing to do anything. So I guess there is no way that it will work out.

I was not vegan when my family turned vegan and I turned vegan because I love my family and because it is important to them. And now I found out that I kind of agree with the ideology and it is pretty bad to read how ignorant many people are about other ideas… I guess if you are not mainstream you are doomed. But I think in some years everybody here will be vegan and its the thing to be I might be wrong but if I look around and see how much it is growing… Its pretty amazing

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=Red Barn;8893187]
This is simply not true.

I’ve been reading your posts for years, Bluey, and generally like them a lot. I can see that you know a hell of a lot about horses, and have heaps of common sense - about everything except this topic.

I almost never even visit the forum any more, because I think you and a few others are creating massive social conflicts where none need exist.

I wish you all would stop, but I know you won’t - which is a real shame for everyone concerned. :no:[/QUOTE]

By definition, first google hit:

veg·an
?v???n/
noun
a person who does not eat or use animal products.
“I’m a strict vegan”

[SendenHorse]

everyone thinks their “facts” are right, you know! These threads never go well.

[Alagirl]

[QUOTE=Manni01;8893190]
Maybe you didn’t read my post?? I answered directly to OveroHunter and Danceronice.

And about the original post… By now I think the relationship is doomed. A relationship is only thriving if both persons will do something for it. I have no idea whether the guy will give anything, there was not enough information about it but the girl sounded like she was not willing to do anything. So I guess there is no way that it will work out.

I was not vegan when my family turned vegan and I turned vegan because I love my family and because it is important to them. And now I found out that I kind of agree with the ideology and it is pretty bad to read how ignorant many people are about other ideas… I guess if you are not mainstream you are doomed. But I think in some years everybody here will be vegan and its the thing to be I might be wrong but if I look around and see how much it is growing… Its pretty amazing[/QUOTE]

I read it, the ‘you’ is generic’

Seems like you (as in Manni01) did not read the OP (Original Post) where the OP (Original Poster) stated that her prospective beau had issues with her horse ownership and riding.

[Equitational]

[QUOTE=Manni01;8893179]

And the second bolded paragraph…Ha Ha… The rainforest is killed more everyday to provide food for all the beef which needs to be raised for all the people eating it. Eating meat will eventually kill the environment together with all the other bad things we do. And IMO (thats my very personal opinion and I think I have the right to have this opinion) its one of the easier things to help to protect the environment if you stop eating meat… The rest is much trickier to change…[/QUOTE]

Do you know how much water my husband pumps from the ground to farm a 100 acres rice and almonds?? Or how much the fresh produce grown is sprayed with herbicides/insecticides on almost a daily basis? Just because you don’t eat meat doesn’t mean you are having less of an impact on natural resources.

Anyone who is strictly organic, vegan or anti GMO, etc need to spend a day with a farmer. The fact is, by 2050 there will be a global shortage of food (if there isn’t one in some countries already). Obviously, this doesn’t have much to do with eating vegan, but those who think organic or otherwise strict diets will save the world need to spend the day with a farmer in the field to figure out what will/ will not save the world from hunger.

[Manni01]

[QUOTE=Alagirl;8893202]
I read it, the ‘you’ is generic’

Seems like you (as in Manni01) did not read the OP (Original Post) where the OP (Original Poster) stated that her prospective beau had issues with her horse ownership and riding.[/QUOTE]

??? It was stated that the guy believed that all horses should live wild. To me that soznds like he doesnt know much about horses. But as I said se never got enough info about him.

[Equitational]

[QUOTE=Bluey;8893191]
By definition, first google hit:

veg·an
?v???n/
noun
a person who does not eat or use animal products.
“I’m a strict vegan”[/QUOTE]

So than a strict vegan can’t possibly own/ride horses, unless they use strictly synthetic tack?? And they’d have to ride in rubber boots.

[SendenHorse]

[QUOTE=Equitational;8893226]
So than a strict vegan can’t possibly own/ride horses, unless they use strictly synthetic tack?? And they’d have to ride in rubber boots.[/QUOTE]

yes, that is my impression. it wouldn’t be hard at all to do, but there would need to be breakaway tabs of some sort- leather breaks, nylon doesn’t.

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=Equitational;8893226]
So than a strict vegan can’t possibly own/ride horses, unless they use strictly synthetic tack?? And they’d have to ride in rubber boots.[/QUOTE]

People can do what they want and use whatever names they want, of course?

The dictionary defines vegan as above, someone that doesn’t eat or use animals.

That is why, according to that definition, that is very much the standard one, that is antagonistic with eating and using animals.

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=Manni01;8893190]
Maybe you didn’t read my post?? I answered directly to OveroHunter and Danceronice.

And about the original post… By now I think the relationship is doomed. A relationship is only thriving if both persons will do something for it. I have no idea whether the guy will give anything, there was not enough information about it but the girl sounded like she was not willing to do anything. So I guess there is no way that it will work out.

I was not vegan when my family turned vegan and I turned vegan because I love my family and because it is important to them. And now I found out that I kind of agree with the ideology and it is pretty bad to read how ignorant many people are about other ideas… I guess if you are not mainstream you are doomed. But I think in some years everybody here will be vegan and its the thing to be I might be wrong but if I look around and see how much it is growing… Its pretty amazing[/QUOTE]

I don’t think anyone has any to say about what others choose to eat or not eat, in a free world, we should be free to do so, right?

The trouble is when people want EVERYONE to do what they choose, as above.

Especially here, on a horse forum, you would think that is the one place where human use of animals, here horses, would NOT be in question?

[Red_Barn]

Vegans don’t use animal products. That means leather, fur, etc. PETA, which disapproves of “enslaving” animals, is a wholly separate organization.

I suspect you know this.

And while I’d never accuse you of outright lying, I think you’re misusing language - either by accident or on purpose - to blur relevant distinctions and encourage even more paranoia and hatefulness about animal issues and personal choice.

Not good.

[SendenHorse]

[QUOTE=Red Barn;8893308]
Vegans don’t use animal products. That means leather, fur, etc. PETA, which disapproves of “enslaving” animals, is a wholly separate organization.

I suspect you know this.

And while I’d never accuse you of outright lying, I think you’re misusing language - either by accident or on purpose - to blur relevant distinctions and encourage even more paranoia and hatefulness about animal issues and personal choice.

Not good.[/QUOTE]

From PETA’s site specifically

http://www.peta.org/about-peta/faq/what-is-a-vegan/

they also don’t say anything about using animals

[h=1]What is a vegan?[/h]A vegan (strict vegetarian) does not consume meat, dairy products, eggs, honey, or any product derived from an animal. A vegan diet can (and should) be full of a wide variety of delicious, nutritious foods, including vegetables, grains, nuts, legumes, seeds, and fruits. Vegans don’t wear leather, fur, silk, or wool. Many refuse to use products that are made with animal ingredients, products that are filtered using animal parts (such as some wines, beers, and white sugars), and products that have been tested on animals.

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=Red Barn;8893308]
Vegans don’t use animal products. That means leather, fur, etc. PETA, which disapproves of “enslaving” animals, is a wholly separate organization.

I suspect you know this.

And while I’d never accuse you of outright lying, I think you’re misusing language - either by accident or on purpose - to blur relevant distinctions and encourage even more paranoia and hatefulness about animal issues and personal choice.

Not good.[/QUOTE]

The OP’s SO is proclaiming being a vegan and as such not wanting her to ride horses, because of him being vegan?

If you read the vegan literature, they want a world where humans won’t use animals at all, tying in with animal rights extremists.

I am sure there are some that only take out of vegan the no animal products part and even then only the diet part, still use animal products, like medications and pig heart valves if they need them and such and still consider themselves vegan because they follow a vegan diet.

It is my understanding that vegan includes the whole, for those that are, well, wholly vegan.
Even vegan web sites have this discussion, definitely the “real” vegans going whole hog and not accepting the name vegan for less.

YOU may make a distinction that suits you about what is vegan, but that is not the general definition I see applied, definitively here, as in the OP’s situation, vegan means no use of any animals and their products.

[Alagirl]

[QUOTE=Manni01;8893220]
??? It was stated that the guy believed that all horses should live wild. To me that soznds like he doesnt know much about horses. But as I said se never got enough info about him.[/QUOTE]

Many Vegans don’t know about animals.

They live in the city. And frankly, many do not know their impact, or much about plant derived food either.
(no care, as long as they have it, Re: Quinoa)

[Highflyer]

Most of the vegans I know are just regular people who follow a strict diet. They aren’t any more zealous or obnoxious than meat eaters or vegetarians or Atkins dieters or any other diet group and they don’t sign an oath requiring that they follow a standard guideline for either behavior or diet. Are there some people who are over the top and nutty and also vegan? Sure-- but I’ve met people who are just as nutty about insisting people have to eat meat or they’ll die.

[WildandWickedWarmblo]

People who support horse slaughter who are posting on this thread should admit it for those who think this is an argument about eating cattle and hogs.

[tbchick84]

Your boyfriend sounds very ignorant about horses. His insistence on preaching that ignorance would be the deal breaker for me. Regardless of subject, I grow weary of any person who cannot see shades of grey on a particular issue. All or nothing thinking makes for fabulous conversation…not! I’d be bored of that guy in about 3 minutes.