[QUOTE=WildandWickedWarmbloods;8893367]
People who support horse slaughter who are posting on this thread should admit it for those who think this is an argument about eating cattle and hogs.[/QUOTE]
What?
I thought this was about the OP’s question about her vegan SO and him objecting to her having and riding horses, as it goes against his vegan ways?
Interesting discussion… The more I read in this thread the more I think the relationship is doomed.
[QUOTE=Equitational;8893219]
Do you know how much water my husband pumps from the ground to farm a 100 acres rice and almonds?? Or how much the fresh produce grown is sprayed with herbicides/insecticides on almost a daily basis? Just because you don’t eat meat doesn’t mean you are having less of an impact on natural resources.
Anyone who is strictly organic, vegan or anti GMO, etc need to spend a day with a farmer. The fact is, by 2050 there will be a global shortage of food (if there isn’t one in some countries already). Obviously, this doesn’t have much to do with eating vegan, but those who think organic or otherwise strict diets will save the world need to spend the day with a farmer in the field to figure out what will/ will not save the world from hunger.[/QUOTE]
I guess opinion against opinion… 100 years ago not everybody ate meat every day and they still survived. I believe that people overdid the production of meat (and of course everybody earning money with it supported this) And that it is necessary to overthink the general way of living. Might not be perfect but it is my way to deal with the situation right now which keeps millions of animals in horrible conditions (just thing about the poor turkeys of Thanksgiving…) just to provide everybody with meat all the time.
I think you have to start somewhere…
[QUOTE=Manni01;8893396]
I guess opinion against opinion… 100 years ago not everybody ate meat every day and they still survived. I believe that people overdid the production of meat (and of course everybody earning money with it supported this) And that it is necessary to overthink the general way of living. Might not be perfect but it is my way to deal with the situation right now which keeps millions of animals in horrible conditions (just thing about the poor turkeys of Thanksgiving…) just to provide everybody with meat all the time.
I think you have to start somewhere…[/QUOTE]
The amt of meat in a “serving” is also greater now than 100 yrs ago.
[QUOTE=Manni01;8893190]
But I think in some years everybody here will be vegan and its the thing to be 
I might be wrong but if I look around and see how much it is growing… Its pretty amazing[/QUOTE]
Isn’t it cool? Oh, 10 or so years everybody was like “you’re What? oh you mean a vegetarian. Do you eat fish?” and now (at least around here anyway) it’s becoming pretty mainstream. Within walking distance from my apartment I have at least 3 totally vegan (and delicious!) restaurants.
[QUOTE=Manni01;8893387]
Interesting discussion… The more I read in this thread the more I think the relationship is doomed.[/QUOTE]
That is about the one point I agree with you.
I have no dog in this fight (already said “doomed” because of his horse beliefs, not his diet).
That said I know one trainer and one ammy rider who say they are vegans. BUT they wear leather boots, use leather tack, sheepskin (real) pads. They eat honey. They wear wool when up north in cold weather. And down vests. And did I mention cheese?
So like anything else apparently there are variations on the theme. Each to his/her own.
[QUOTE=Manni01;8893179]
Wow you put a lot of effort into your post. And I bolded some paragraphs… The third bolded one is the most doubtable to me. Yes obviously you want animals to be kept right but please don’t tell me that you never go to any restaurants, buy milk and eggs only from the farmer around the corner where you see the animals living a happy live and so on. I am pretty sure you don’t do this and than you have now idea how the animals or animal products you eat are treated before they ended up on your plate. Its your thing how you feel, but please give me at least the right to feel how I want to feel… And the first bolded paragraph is very interesting as well, why do you think vegans are kinder or smarter or what so ever??? Did anybody say that??? Why do you imply they are?? I think they have the right to think how they think without being accused that they are conceited…
Did you even know before that I am vegan??? Did I ever try to convince anybody?? So please consider what you write…
And the second bolded paragraph…Ha Ha… The rainforest is killed more everyday to provide food for all the beef which needs to be raised for all the people eating it. Eating meat will eventually kill the environment together with all the other bad things we do. And IMO (thats my very personal opinion and I think I have the right to have this opinion) its one of the easier things to help to protect the environment if you stop eating meat… The rest is much trickier to change…[/QUOTE]
Well, you came in with guns a-blazin’ for veganism, in vintage True Believer fashion, and it looked like standard virtue-signalling to me.
Didn’t know there were “rainforests” in the USA or Canada, which is where most of our beef is raised. Dot-org. & NPR propaganda. (Can’t keep ya writin’ CHECKS if everything isn’t really on the eve of destruction, right?) :winkgrin: As Latin America has gained in wealth, environmental desecration IS slowing, as it always DOES once a country emerges from subsistence-level poverty. Want a good cause? INVE$T in Latin America! Buy land there!
The odd notion that humans and other animals once lived in some kind of ecological utopia in pre-industrial times is nonsense; planted by the Bible, it probably gathered steam with the Transcendentalists around Boston in the 19th century and resulted in “The Lion King” and a lot of silly greenish noise in our era. It’s hogwash! We are SO fortunate to be living today–the past was almost always a brutal continual struggle to survive, and the environmental desecration in those days was of the scorched-earth kind. Go look at the 70 year old faces on 25 year old pioneer women in the American west! And I’m betting vanishingly small numbers of green “activists” are willing to give up every invention after, say, 1825 and go off the grid fending for themselves and living off the land. Talk is cheap, but most of you wouldn’t make it for 12 minutes! Go take a look at the poor used-up horses the Amish dump at New Holland for a present day glimpse of that pre-industrial “utopia!” :disgust:
Myself? I love eggs so I keep chickens, and my small flock (35) lives in what a chicken probably considers Park Avenue style complete with large protected outdoor yard and servants.
I buy every bit of my meat from a local artisanal butcher who sources everything from within 100 miles of here and practices nose-to-tail use. While supporting local farms, he’s done a great job educating people about the various cuts and how to cook and enjoy them. All my beef, pork and lamb is raised in small herds on natural pasture–even the pigs and that is difficult to do! He will put you in touch with all the farmers if you want to take a tour, and pictures of the animals in life are prominent features of his shop. I also buy local raw milk in glass bottles (with five inches of cream on top!) and butter from the same place, where I I HAPPILY pay up to FIVE TIMES the going supermarket price for the unequalled taste, quality, freshness, and the knowledge that the animals led a relatively idyllic life compared to their CAFO cousins and were processed with an eye to quality and humane handling, not speed.
So yeah, I put my MONEY where my mouth is.
As for “feelings,” that is becoming a Millenial cliche’. :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=Alterrain;8893499]
Isn’t it cool? Oh, 10 or so years everybody was like “you’re What? oh you mean a vegetarian. Do you eat fish?” and now (at least around here anyway) it’s becoming pretty mainstream. Within walking distance from my apartment I have at least 3 totally vegan (and delicious!) restaurants.[/QUOTE]
Agree. I prefer interesting veg dishes, I think they taste better and I hate the fatty carb laden crap…
I’ll tell you, be careful though. I have dangerously low iron because I don’t prefer meat. I do eat meat but I think it’s sort of boring, expensive and not tasty.
[QUOTE=Alterrain;8893499]
Isn’t it cool? Oh, 10 or so years everybody was like “you’re What? oh you mean a vegetarian. Do you eat fish?” and now (at least around here anyway) it’s becoming pretty mainstream. Within walking distance from my apartment I have at least 3 totally vegan (and delicious!) restaurants.[/QUOTE]
I agree, wish there were more veg or places that feature really good, tasty and healthy veg options vs the carb and salt fest of most locations.
[QUOTE=Red Barn;8893187]
This is simply not true.
I’ve been reading your posts for years, Bluey, and generally like them a lot. I can see that you know a hell of a lot about horses, and have heaps of common sense - about everything except this topic.
I almost never even visit the forum any more, because I think you and a few others are creating massive social conflicts where none need exist.
I wish you all would stop, but I know you won’t - which is a real shame for everyone concerned. :no:[/QUOTE]
“Massive social conflicts?” :lol: Dude, it’s an archaic form of social media we debate on for FUN. Peace out!
[QUOTE=Manni01;8893190]
Maybe you didn’t read my post?? I answered directly to OveroHunter and Danceronice.
And about the original post… By now I think the relationship is doomed. A relationship is only thriving if both persons will do something for it. I have no idea whether the guy will give anything, there was not enough information about it but the girl sounded like she was not willing to do anything. So I guess there is no way that it will work out.
I was not vegan when my family turned vegan and I turned vegan because I love my family and because it is important to them. And now I found out that I kind of agree with the ideology and it is pretty bad to read how ignorant many people are about other ideas… I guess if you are not mainstream you are doomed. But I think in some years everybody here will be vegan and its the thing to be I might be wrong but if I look around and see how much it is growing… Its pretty amazing[/QUOTE]
Vegans are estimated to be 1% or 2% of the U.S. population–and most do not succeed in sticking to it beyond 6 months. I think it’s pretty safe to say it’s a long way from “mainstream.” The ones I know are mostly looking for a fashionable, politically-correct way to cover up their anorexic ideation.
My boyfriend thought the same thing when we first met, but he was open-minded. The more he learned about me and my relationship with my horses, the way they were cared for, the average lifespan vs. horses in the wild, etc. the more he changed his mind.
15 years later, I’ve become a vegetarian, we’re both mostly vegan, he comes to watch me at shows and he knows more about horses than he ever wanted to
[QUOTE=Lady Eboshi;8893562]
Vegans are estimated to be 1% or 2% of the U.S. population–and most do not succeed in sticking to it beyond 6 months. I think it’s pretty safe to say it’s a long way from “mainstream.” The ones I know are mostly looking for a fashionable, politically-correct way to cover up their anorexic ideation.[/QUOTE]
wow, you know some weird people.
and its more like 5% than 1%
http://www.gallup.com/poll/156215/Consider-Themselves-Vegetarians.aspx
or higher, depending on who you ask
http://www.vrg.org/blog/2011/12/05/how-many-adults-are-vegan-in-the-u-s/
Never the less, many of us, me included, are adding in several non-meat and non-dairy meals for health reasons.
[QUOTE=SendenHorse;8893579]
wow, you know some weird people.
and its more like 5% than 1%
http://www.gallup.com/poll/156215/Consider-Themselves-Vegetarians.aspx
or higher, depending on who you ask
http://www.vrg.org/blog/2011/12/05/how-many-adults-are-vegan-in-the-u-s/
Never the less, many of us, me included, are adding in several non-meat and non-dairy meals for health reasons.[/QUOTE]
Sensible eating is not vegan, is sensible, omnivorous eating.
It doesn’t take much animal protein to cover our needs for the important nutrients we need from those products.
Of course, we can also pull a Bill Clinton and call yourself vegetarian while eating your hamburger, because he means to become one, some day:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/animals-and-us/201109/why-are-there-so-few-vegetarians
Everyone is welcome to eat or not eat whatever they want and call it whatever they choose, no question about that.
To then demand, as some do, that everyone else follows what they do, whatever that may be, because they think, in their great knowledge, they are the ones in the know, everyone else wrong, well, then the rest will have some objections.
At least the OP has one post where someone made it work, as per that poster, so there is hope for them.
[QUOTE=Bluey;8893590]
Sensible eating is not vegan, is sensible, omnivorous eating.
It doesn’t take much animal protein to cover our needs for the important nutrients we need from those products.
Of course, we can also pull a Bill Clinton and call yourself vegetarian while eating your hamburger, because he means to become one, some day.;)[/QUOTE]
your version of “sensible eating” or someone elses’?
I didn’t realize you were an expert on nutrition!
What does bill clinton have to do with this? I’m not a vegetarian, I just said I eat a lot of fruit and veg. Its tastier and more flavorful to me.
[QUOTE=Lady Eboshi;8893529]
I buy every bit of my meat from a local artisanal butcher who sources everything from within 100 miles of here and practices nose-to-tail use. While supporting local farms, he’s done a great job educating people about the various cuts and how to cook and enjoy them. All my beef, pork and lamb is raised in small herds on natural pasture–even the pigs and that is difficult to do! He will put you in touch with all the farmers if you want to take a tour, and pictures of the animals in life are prominent features of his shop. I also buy local raw milk in glass bottles (with five inches of cream on top!) and butter from the same place, where I I HAPPILY pay up to FIVE TIMES the going supermarket price for the unequalled taste, quality, freshness, and the knowledge that the animals led a relatively idyllic life compared to their CAFO cousins and were processed with an eye to quality and humane handling, not speed.[/QUOTE]
I disagree with almost everything you’ve said on this thread (I think most vegans genuinely care about animal welfare, not virtue signaling or political correctness), but I admire this so much.
Factory farms are by far the largest source of animal suffering in this country, and I am so grateful that there are people like you that prioritize the well-being of animals over $. :applause:
Everyone is welcome to eat or not eat whatever they want but unless you are an omnivore you aren’t sensible? That seems a bit narrow.
OP I’ve got a strict vegetarian friend who is an equestrian and is dating a vegan. The more time her partner spent around her horse the more he respected her decision to ride and has grown to be a huge supporter of her journey. A lot of people have limited experience around horses and are often exposed to the less savory parts of our world. He needed an opportunity to realize that bits don’t have to be harsh, whips should be used fairly to clarify aids, and that quality of life is always a priority for a true equestrian.
If someone is not willing to learn or wants to change you then I think a relationship is set up to fail regardless of dietary habits.
[QUOTE=SendenHorse;8893597]
your version of “sensible eating” or someone elses’?
I didn’t realize you were an expert on nutrition!
What does bill clinton have to do with this? I’m not a vegetarian, I just said I eat a lot of fruit and veg. Its tastier and more flavorful to me.[/QUOTE]
I also eat mostly vegetables, little meat, is what is sensible, for me.
[QUOTE=GraceLikeRain;8893606]Everyone is welcome to eat or not eat whatever they want but unless you are an omnivore you aren’t sensible? That seems a bit narrow.
OP I’ve got a strict vegetarian friend who is an equestrian and is dating a vegan. The more time her partner spent around her horse the more he respected her decision to ride and has grown to be a huge supporter of her journey. A lot of people have limited experience around horses and are often exposed to the less savory parts of our world. He needed an opportunity to realize that bits don’t have to be harsh, whips should be used fairly to clarify aids, and that quality of life is always a priority for a true equestrian.
If someone is not willing to learn or wants to change you then I think a relationship is set up to fail regardless of dietary habits.[/QUOTE]
I meant, to eat animal products in moderation, as the poster I quoted mentioned, is what was sensible, which the next phrase was pointing to with the it doesn’t take much comment.
As for how some feel riding horses is abuse, the same can be said for feeding cattle.
There is no way we are going to convince someone that doesn’t know horses that horses are not being abused by being ridden, they are completely convinced it HAS to be so, anyone with any sense can see that, right?
The cattle we raise in nice pastures, grow in nice pastures, that some of them, at the appropriate age, are finished on grain rations in a feedlot for a few months are not abused, but go convince anyone that has never raised and knows cattle that is not so.
For that age cattle, after decades of studies and under very careful management, those cattle, those few last months, are very contented, their gain depends on it.
The pens and how many of which kind and where to place the bunks and water and mounds or sheds, all that has many studies behind them, so the cattle are the happiest they can be there.
Proof, those that turn them out and put bunks in the pasture, so they can say they are finished on grass, can tell you, those cattle spend all day by the bunks, waiting for their next meal, not wandering around the pasture, is what those cattle at that age do, why being in a pen is no different and they are just as happy in that pen.
If they were not, they would not gain as they do, with room and board and the best medical care and nutritionists formulating the best possible rations, bunk readers calling feed according to each pen, the mills preparing each batch carefully for each pen, feed truck drivers delivering it as indicated, a bit more fiber in colder weather, practically all fiber no grains in storms, more feed at evening feeding in the summers.
Finishing cattle is a science taught in colleges, with feedlot managers, agricultural environmental engineers, veterinarians and nutritionists also degrees geared just to that.
All that insuring the cattle and their care and impact in the environment is the most efficient and best, no abuse there.
Just the same when we are trying to tell those that insist horses should live free, not being ridden, those of us that work with horses are puzzled where they come from, because we know that we are not abusing our horses the way we care and ride them.
We need to keep explaining that use itself is not abuse, even when we know it will fall on deaf ears.
[QUOTE=Bluey;8893614]
I also eat mostly vegetables, little meat, is what is sensible, for me.
I meant, to eat animal products in moderation, as the poster I quoted mentioned, is what was sensible, which the next phrase was pointing to with the it doesn’t take much comment.[/QUOTE]
what?
“sensible for me”
Exactly my point.
By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.
For Customers
Company
Terms of Use
