Horseback rider + vegan?

[Manni01]

[QUOTE=Lady Eboshi;8893562]
Vegans are estimated to be 1% or 2% of the U.S. population–and most do not succeed in sticking to it beyond 6 months. I think it’s pretty safe to say it’s a long way from “mainstream.” The ones I know are mostly looking for a fashionable, politically-correct way to cover up their anorexic ideation.[/QUOTE]

Wow unbelievable how outdated you are… you might want to read the newest numbers…

http://www.foodnavigator-usa.com/Markets/Vegan-is-going-mainstream-trend-data-suggests

[Lady_Eboshi]

Got one suggestion for “ideological eaters” at my place:

“Bring your own chow.”

You think “vegans” are bad, soon we’ll also be obliged to service the Moral High Ground of the “organic only,” the Kosher, the Halal, protect the medically allergic on pain of lawsuit, etc. Eatin’ gets complicated . . . Pretty hard to throw a party or picnic! Can’t even serve booze now, because some may be on the wagon, Muslim, or Morally Opposed; Mormons won’t take coffee or tea either. Ain’t “multiculturalism” GRAND? :lol:

I say eat what you want, but DON’T expect anyone else to make special accommodations for you. But the OP’s BF would probably expect her to cook for him, AND to “convert” to his ideology.

But in the OP’s case the big issue here is not the foodstuffs; it’s that he’s morally opposed to using horses in the traditional ways. I’d call that a deal-breaker for a rider.

Remember ONE big thing: People are unlikely to change.

[invinoveritas]

[QUOTE=SendenHorse;8893597]
your version of “sensible eating” or someone elses’?

I didn’t realize you were an expert on nutrition!

What does bill clinton have to do with this? I’m not a vegetarian, I just said I eat a lot of fruit and veg. Its tastier and more flavorful to me.[/QUOTE]

Great post. Limiting meats is a good thing and people should not be flamed for doing so. I don’t know why people get so angry at vegans and vegetarians and those who try to limit the amount of meat that they eat.

I often disagree with Manni, but she and her family have chosen a very hard-to-do way of eating, and I admire her for that.

[SendenHorse]

[QUOTE=Lady Eboshi;8894003]
Got one suggestion for “ideological eaters” at my place:

“Bring your own chow.”

You think “vegans” are bad, soon we’ll also be obliged to service the Moral High Ground of the “organic only,” the Kosher, the Halal, protect the medically allergic on pain of lawsuit, etc. Eatin’ gets complicated . . . Pretty hard to throw a party or picnic! Can’t even serve booze now, because some may be on the wagon, Muslim, or Morally Opposed; Mormons won’t take coffee or tea either. Ain’t “multiculturalism” GRAND? :lol:

I say eat what you want, but DON’T expect anyone else to make special accommodations for you. But the OP’s BF would probably expect her to cook for him, AND to “convert” to his ideology.

But in the OP’s case the big issue here is not the foodstuffs; it’s that he’s morally opposed to using horses in the traditional ways. I’d call that a deal-breaker for a rider.

Remember ONE big thing: People are unlikely to change. [/QUOTE]

You are way off in left field here.

No, I don’t expect people to accommodate me. Who here said anything about this? you are the only one going in this direction.

However, there are many option for GF- you do know that potato, rice, corn are ok, right?

Yes, I was given special lunch at a work event. Is that too much to ask? I did bring my OWN FOOD, too, in case it didn’t work out (Had one time I was suppose to get a GF meal and it was not). Sometimes I will eat gluten in small amounts, and cheese., if it means starving I will make it work.

I know this isn’t the OP’s real problem, but they are MIA and this is an interesting conversation.

And do you know anyone with true allergies? scary stuff. Its being a good friend to consider them in your plans. Not having nuts on things, for example, isn’t hard to do.

[GoodTimes]

[QUOTE=SendenHorse;8894033]
You are way off in left field here.

No, I don’t expect people to accommodate me. Who here said anything about this? you are the only one going in this direction.

However, there are many option for GF- you do know that potato, rice, corn are ok, right?

Yes, I was given special lunch at a work event. Is that too much to ask? I did bring my OWN FOOD, too, in case it didn’t work out (Had one time I was suppose to get a GF meal and it was not). Sometimes I will eat gluten in small amounts, and cheese., if it means starving I will make it work.

I know this isn’t the OP’s real problem, but they are MIA and this is an interesting conversation.

And do you know anyone with true allergies? scary stuff. Its being a good friend to consider them in your plans. Not having nuts on things, for example, isn’t hard to do.[/QUOTE]

Please don’t say you have a TRUE allergy if you can knowingly eat small amounts of gluten. You and others who jumped on the GF bandwagon are doing a disservice to people who actually have celiac disease.
My SIL is truly celiac, she’s had several scopes, a couple breadcrumbs send her running to the bathroom within minutes. She brings all of her own food because of the GF fad. Most people say to her “so how GF are you?”. That should NOT be a question with a true allergy.

I apologize that this if off topic.
I already told the OP that I didn’t think the vegan thing would be the issue, more his opinion on horseback riding.

[Dee-Vee]

A relationship is doomed when any participant feels judged for who they are or what they believe in.

If this persists…don’t walk…run!! I have seen friends who are vegans ruin relationships because of their inability to accept that others have different belief systems founded in knowledge and experience.

I must say that I get a kick out of the term “vegan leather” that is now being used for synthetics…funny tho…nobody talks about the glue…mostly the Vegans as they know their choices are limited in necessary footwear if they don’t give on certain points. Even Vegans need appropriate footwear to survive the harsh Canadian winter.

[danceronice]

[QUOTE=Alagirl;8893181]

I find ‘veganism’ rather dumb. I mean, the extended ideology, not the diet.
You think any animal use is off limits, you better stop driving your car: Fossil fuels are animals, too!
and that leaves you with pretty much nothing, because it all is connected, either by gas or animal use to produce it.
Unless you can find real rubber, made with only plants, not gas or oil (for heat and energy) and shipped on sailing ships.
And of course, you need to go back to hand picked, ginned and spun cotton…

It all depends on the ideology.[/QUOTE]

Not to mention giving up any modern medical procedures and medications tested at some point on unwilling animals…

[LauraKY]

[QUOTE=tangledweb;8892558]
Cook lots of bacon around him. You can convert him.[/QUOTE]

I was vegetarian for years, and vegan for the last two. It wasn’t a decision made on principle, I started long distance running and the smell, taste and texture of meat became unappetizing. The last couple of years, even the texture of eggs and eggs in baked goods had an “off” smell to me.

I had a knee injury, cut way back on my running and started eating meat in small amounts again.

As far as cooking bacon around him…to a vegetarian it smells like rotting meat, I don’t think you’re going to win a convert.

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=LauraKY;8894183]
I was vegetarian for years, and vegan for the last two. It wasn’t a decision made on principle, I started long distance running and the smell, taste and texture of meat became unappetizing. The last couple of years, even the texture of eggs and eggs in baked goods had an “off” smell to me.

I had a knee injury, cut way back on my running and started eating meat in small amounts again.

As far as cooking bacon around him…to a vegetarian it smells like rotting meat, I don’t think you’re going to win a convert.[/QUOTE]

I agree, we need to respect everyone, if we expect respect.

That is why it is hard to say in this situation, if he has objections to her having and riding horses already, which is something the OP has to respect, on the other hand, is he going to respect that she will have horses, even over his objections?

Life together ought not to be so complicated both have to walk on eggs around such important differences.

[Red_Barn]

@invinoveritas;8894028

Great post. Limiting meats is a good thing and people should not be flamed for doing so. I don’t know why people get so angry at vegans and vegetarians and those who try to limit the amount of meat that they eat.

I can’t answer that big picture wise, but, here on the forum, the flamers seem to be mostly people raising animals for meat.

The strategic goal is apparently to make horse owners believe that any and all concern for the welfare of meat animals will lead to horse ownership being outlawed. Or something like that.

It doesn’t make much sense, but it’s actually pretty consistent.

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=Red Barn;8894192]
I can’t answer that big picture wise, but, here on the forum, the flamers seem to be mostly people raising animals for meat.

The strategic goal is apparently to make horse owners believe that any and all concern for the welfare of meat animals will lead to horse ownership being outlawed. Or something like that.

It doesn’t make much sense, but it’s actually pretty consistent.[/QUOTE]

Maybe consider that you could possibly have that backwards?

There are some that attack with myths that we have and ride horses and yes, also that we may raise animals for other.

I would not think defending from those myths bandied around by those that don’t know about horses or raising animals for other is flaming anyone.

The old, “walk a mile in other’s shoes” before we go throwing stones helps when we don’t really know what others do and how and why.

[Alagirl]

well, if you have any question about who is judgmental…
https://www.facebook.com/MidlandsVeganFestival/photos/a.153382114850515.1073741830.152894128232647/538030033052386/?type=3&theater

The ‘ethical extravaganza’

But considering the issue surrounding chocolate (harvested by child slaves in many regions) can they guarantee ethics in that field as well?

And BTW, you need to support bee keepers, because without the bees, no veggies, fruits or nuts. Might as well eat the honey, and sheep don’t mind the hair cut, you can stay warm in winter, too…

[Kinda_Kooky]

This thread has roused me from my lurker slumber and I will be returning to my solitary opinion cave shortly.

Give the guy a chance if you like him! You can learn from each other. A man who appreciates animals and has compassion, even if it is a bit misguided, has potential. The more personal relationships he develops with animals the better he will recognize his internal limitations with animal use.

There are some posters that seem to be threatened by the lifestyle choices of vegans. I have been a vegetarian since the age of six and have heard it all before. I have my reasons, they make sense to me and that is what matters. I eat as a vegan, and I have horse equipment made of leather, yet I avoid fur and other animal products.

I see some very compassionate animal lovers posting responses as though in defense and I suppose I am doing the same. Many of us that are vegan are rather practical (ignoring that my practicality can be immediately questioned by horse ownership) and I myself dislike the generalizations that are diet based. I have a pro-animal life philosophy and I think there are others here who live a similar lifestyle.

Why do I not eat animals? Because I consider them friends. Yup, all of them. Judge away, folks.

Why do I use leather but never fur? Leather is a by-product, not the fueling reason for the animal’s death. Fur is what an animal gives his life for. If cows were killed for leather alone, I would use only synthetic. If it matters, I have a preference for synthetic leather when it comes to me. The leather items I own are exclusively horse equipment and I take very good care of my tack. I recognize something died and was made into a saddle, the best I can do on this end is take great care of it, since I didn’t save the cow from being processed in the first place.

I share this example of my thoughts and actions in an effort to show that some vegan eating people are not all that crazy. I have friends that eat corpse and some that do not. The way I live my life is out of respect for what I love.

I have a lot of respect for Bluey and others here with similar situations. I have no doubt that Bluey’s cattle are well taken care of until their death. Because I cannot change the world, I choose to appreciate the animal stewards that do right by the animals in the meat industry.

Philosophically, meat eaters and I differ. I feel that I have other dietary options, and the taking of an animal’s life is not worth the meal to me. Yes, nature can be savage, but I don’t have to be.

We are all animals, trying to get through our lifespan. How you choose to treat other animals and their body parts is on you.

My only involvement with another’s actions concerning animals would be in an abusive situation, in which I will absolutely step in and have in the past.

This thread could spin off in a myriad of directions concerning animal use and I may or may not return from my lurker den to throw 2 cents into the pot.

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=Kinda Kooky;8894481]
This thread has roused me from my lurker slumber and I will be returning to my solitary opinion cave shortly.

Give the guy a chance if you like him! You can learn from each other. A man who appreciates animals and has compassion, even if it is a bit misguided, has potential. The more personal relationships he develops with animals the better he will recognize his internal limitations with animal use.

There are some posters that seem to be threatened by the lifestyle choices of vegans. I have been a vegetarian since the age of six and have heard it all before. I have my reasons, they make sense to me and that is what matters. I eat as a vegan, and I have horse equipment made of leather, yet I avoid fur and other animal products.

I see some very compassionate animal lovers posting responses as though in defense and I suppose I am doing the same. Many of us that are vegan are rather practical (ignoring that my practicality can be immediately questioned by horse ownership) and I myself dislike the generalizations that are diet based. I have a pro-animal life philosophy and I think there are others here who live a similar lifestyle.

Why do I not eat animals? Because I consider them friends. Yup, all of them. Judge away, folks.

Why do I use leather but never fur? Leather is a by-product, not the fueling reason for the animal’s death. Fur is what an animal gives his life for. If cows were killed for leather alone, I would use only synthetic. If it matters, I have a preference for synthetic leather when it comes to me. The leather items I own are exclusively horse equipment and I take very good care of my tack. I recognize something died and was made into a saddle, the best I can do on this end is take great care of it, since I didn’t save the cow from being processed in the first place.

I share this example of my thoughts and actions in an effort to show that some vegan eating people are not all that crazy. I have friends that eat corpse and some that do not. The way I live my life is out of respect for what I love.

I have a lot of respect for Bluey and others here with similar situations. I have no doubt that Bluey’s cattle are well taken care of until their death. Because I cannot change the world, I choose to appreciate the animal stewards that do right by the animals in the meat industry.

Philosophically, meat eaters and I differ. I feel that I have other dietary options, and the taking of an animal’s life is not worth the meal to me. Yes, nature can be savage, but I don’t have to be.

We are all animals, trying to get through our lifespan. How you choose to treat other animals and their body parts is on you.

My only involvement with another’s actions concerning animals would be in an abusive situation, in which I will absolutely step in and have in the past.

This thread could spin off in a myriad of directions concerning animal use and I may or may not return from my lurker den to throw 2 cents into the pot.[/QUOTE]

The only reason for the existence of our cattle is to give us more cattle and eventually, so we humans then use them one more time once their time to live is up, according to our needs.

That is the way everything alive in this world evolved, humans just manipulate that truth to our advantage, we make those lives and deaths to serve our specific purposes.
I think we do also a better job of caring for what is alive than it happens haphazardly in the wild, where there is no care at all, was not for early humans either.
You lived best you could, suffered without palliation and died most times early and in not a very kind manner.

Our cattle are happy by any standards and, as that one fellow in that vegan article I posted stated, surprised, yes, those that have and care for our animals will say, we don’t think we abuse our animals and think they, for the animals they are, have all their needs tended to, best we know how, best decades of research have fine tuned and worked to insure that is so.
We are still working today at it, is what most good caretakers do, they take the best care they can, no matter what you care for, horses as we know best here, or any other.
I understand that there are others that don’t agree.
That falls into the "different strokes … ".
Don’t agree that we should change the world and eliminate our symbiotic relationship between humans and animals just because some don’t like it.

Not exactly unhappy critters ours, here where the antelope play (last picture).
They even know how to have fun:

[Red_Barn]

Lovely post, Kinda Kooky.

I hope you do return.

[Alagirl]

I have friends that eat corpse and some that do not. The way I live my life is out of respect for what I love.

Irony.

But apparently you are not too far away from the ‘I am ethical’ and by default anybody else is not.

Are you still beating your children?

‘I am sure your animals are treated fine’ half behinded attempt to try not to sound offensive. But I am sure everybody else is beating their cows is the logical conclusion.

Met a nice vegan once.
He did not make a show out of his lifestyle, he allowed his kids to pick for themselves (although the meat eater was SOL as her favorite dish was no longer on the menu), he was almost apologetic about wearing his old leather boots (but hey, man, it’s already dead, you might as well keep wearing them)

I did not pick on him for being vegan, he did not try to convert anybody, and he did not expect his choices to be included in buffets, but as person with manners, we managed to make sure to have something other than cheese crackers or beef jerky to snack on. (BTW, Thinmints are vegan - if they would only have no palm oil in them…the death toll on those plantations is staggering - for urang-utans. It’s not made off animals, but is it ethical?)

The biggest problems I am having is that people like the OP’s beau have no idea:
Horses should be free (maybe she can show him some pictures of the emaciated mustangs on the range?)
Folks who assume that ownership by default is abusive.

‘ethical’ reasons, when they have no problems buying products with the most questionable ethics behind them:
Quinoa - the super food for the super rich nations, natives are now being priced out of the market…I suppose they can eat the inferior GMO corn…
Chocolate:
The demand is so great, many plantations are being staffed by children.
Little children who work as virtual slaves.

Non food products like cellphones.
The rare ores that keep them running are funding civil wars, war crimes and abuse of human rights.
That smartphone in your hand is forged in blood of innocents.

And last, the replacements for animal products, where do you think they come from?
Nubuk and polyester…most likely products of the petrol-chemical industry.
That’s carbon footprint squared!
vegetables grown in the desert…the aquifer is weeping!

By all means, eat what you like, what you think is best for you.
Do not climb up on that high horse of ethics.
That steed is notoriously unstrustworthy.

[Kinda_Kooky]

Alagirl, I use the word corpse because that is what it is (I also happen to really like that word), No offense was meant, apologies if offenses were received… No high horse here, 16 hh is the tallest one in Kookville and not considered that big on this forum.

I am not ethically better than anyone else. I love animals and try to live a life that does not harm them. That is all I can do. This arrangement is between the animals and I. I do not think less of anyone who uses animal products or eats them, that is their deal.

As I said before, I think Bluey is an excellent example of someone who takes great care of livestock in the meat industry. The difference between Bluey and I on that is only in the end. If I owned a cow, it would be in my back yard until it died (hopefully) of old age. I am certain that Bluey’s animals do not ever suffer, and when they are processed it is humane. In my book, Bluey is an extremely knowledgeable and good animal owner.

I am a self proclaimed kook, so of course my cow ownership would not be the norm. My preference does not impede anyone else’s. I wish there were more Blueys out there for the cow’s sake.

I posted to share a perspective of someone who does not eat animals and does not fit into the assumed vegan prototype. I agree there are many other things that contribute to the degradation of this planet. I do the best I can and I don’t think less of others that live differently.

And as for beating my children, I beat them so much they went back in time and never existed.

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=Kinda Kooky;8894720]
Alagirl, I use the word corpse because that is what it is (I also happen to really like that word), No offense was meant, apologies if offenses were received… No high horse here, 16 hh is the tallest one in Kookville and not considered that big on this forum.

I am not ethically better than anyone else. I love animals and try to live a life that does not harm them. That is all I can do. This arrangement is between the animals and I. I do not think less of anyone who uses animal products or eats them, that is their deal.

As I said before, I think Bluey is an excellent example of someone who takes great care of livestock in the meat industry. The difference between Bluey and I on that is only in the end. If I owned a cow, it would be in my back yard until it died (hopefully) of old age. I am certain that Bluey’s animals do not ever suffer, and when they are processed it is humane. In my book, Bluey is an extremely knowledgeable and good animal owner.

I am a self proclaimed kook, so of course my cow ownership would not be the norm. My preference does not impede anyone else’s. I wish there were more Blueys out there for the cow’s sake.

I posted to share a perspective of someone who does not eat animals and does not fit into the assumed vegan prototype. I agree there are many other things that contribute to the degradation of this planet. I do the best I can and I don’t think less of others that live differently.

And as for beating my children, I beat them so much they went back in time and never existed.[/QUOTE]

We have some cows that die here, one Doodlebug.
She passed on one nice summer day at 27, that was like a 120 year old human.
She was already 25 here, as you may tell by her venerable old cow face.
The other one is her last heifer calf, Little Doodlebug, of course, that we had to help raise on a bottle.
Doodlebug by then just didn’t have much milk any more.
We didn’t want her bred again in her old age, but somehow she always found a way to get out and get pregnant again.
Many would be surprised to know how much those with cattle care about them.
Cattle have their own stories too:

[wireweiners]

If you didn’t want to offend and sound holier than thou, why did you use the word corpse, which you knew would be offensive, rather than the correct word, meat. Nice try, but your apology does not ring true.

[Highflyer]

Unfortunately not all cattle get to live like that, though. I drive by veal calves with their six feet of chain and their plastic doghouses every day. Someone who kept a dog on a chain that short would never hear the end of it. You don’t have to believe that all farming is abusive to understand that some is.