Horseback rider + vegan?

[QUOTE=Highflyer;8894867]
Unfortunately not all cattle get to live like that, though. I drive by veal calves with their six feet of chain and their plastic doghouses every day. Someone who kept a dog on a chain that short would never hear the end of it. You don’t have to believe that all farming is abusive to understand that some is.[/QUOTE]

Dairy cattle have their own management, different than beef cattle.
You would have to ask them what they do and why.
Not all dairy calves are veal calves.

Here the smallest dairy calves are in individual huts with a little wire pen in front of it, until about, I think, a few weeks old, when they go into communal pens.
They are kept by themselves because of biosecurity, as per what the managers say.
If you are interested in what they do, managers are happy to explain things, at least here they are.
Here is a dairy’s blog with some of how they do things:

http://thedairymom.blogspot.com/2010/12/growing-up-on-our-farm-calf-to-heifer.html

They tend to be very passionate about what they do and have regular school tours.
You go to the office and sign your name as a visitor and ask your questions.
Never seen any tied with a chain around here.

WireWieners, I am allowed to use my everyday words here, I am not going to change myself to fit in. I was not asking for an apology buy in, I was not trying to offend anyone; if you chose to be offended then so be it.

Why are you offended by my use of the word “corpse” anyways? I certainly was not calling you or anyone else one. My use of an alternative noun should not be a focal point of upset.

Lastly, I am not sure where you get the holier than thou attitude from in regards to my post. We are all just a bunch of animals. I assure I am not Holy in the slightest.

Hey, I eat corpse (okay, free range/grass fed/never factory/humanely raised/local corpse, but still) and I’m totally fine with the word.

It is corpse, after all, so why lie? I’m certainly not going to bite into a chicken while it’s still alive!

[QUOTE=Kinda Kooky;8894930]
WireWieners, I am allowed to use my everyday words here, I am not going to change myself to fit in. I was not asking for an apology buy in, I was not trying to offend anyone; if you chose to be offended then so be it.

Why are you offended by my use of the word “corpse” anyways? I certainly was not calling you or anyone else one. My use of an alternative noun should not be a focal point of upset.

Lastly, I am not sure where you get the holier than thou attitude from in regards to my post. We are all just a bunch of animals. I assure I am not Holy in the slightest.[/QUOTE]

well, words matter.

corpse is not used to describe food.
You can take your own conclusions from that.

As noted, you are putting down your friends for eating dead bodies - while technically correct, it’s off putting.
BTW, dead animals are carcasses, and that is also a cooking term, as in putting the picked clean bones in a pot to cook stock from.

As in the link I shared above, happy joy-joy festival, it’s ‘ethical’
Compared to all the other festivals, that offer dead animals as food…

it’s such a small nuance, but yet, it can have such a high impact.

Interesting discussion.

I hope OP lets us know how the Potential Beau’s education shapes up.

Alagirl, I use the words corpse, carcass,“fleshy thing” and other odd terms regularly. I do this for variety’s sake, not for offensive purposes, my personality must have leaked through.

I don’t put down my carnivore compadres and they are not put off by it, I promise. I happen to have quite a foul mouth and colorful vocabulary which is appreciated by them as well, if that matters. :winkgrin:

In an effort to avoid further off putting and not clog up the thread, I shall retire to my lurker lair and let the semantics settle.

I hope the OP finds herself in a happy place, with or without Vegan Man.

Nutshell answer: do you want to be with someone that doesn’t understand the difference between a domestic and a wild animal?

I don’t eat meat bc it’s just not healthy. Nor dairy or cheese.

My choice. I hate factory farms. That basically modern dairy production (as one example-pigs lead awful lives - all this kowtowing to Temple Grandin about slaughter only to have them live in hell) and the commodified way animals are treated.

We are long past the “feeding the world” myth as I see ppl waddle 25 feed from car to grocery store or buy $1 burgers so polluted by chemistry it’s burger in name only.

The biggest lie ppl believe is that you can only get protein from meat and dairy.

Meanwhile I ride my horse. No one in my life forgets my horse is a major player in my day.

It’s not what goes into his mouth that seems to be the issue, it’s what comes out about horses: nonsense.

Wow, I go away to a horse show and my topic explodes! I appreciate everyone’s input. At this point I’m considering this a friendship (I do really like this guy and we get along very well) I would like to find out what specifically bothers him about people riding horses, what knowledge/experience he has, and educate him if possible. Who knows? Maybe he’ll “see the light” and can share his experience with others who feel the same way as he does.

I was definitely willing to compromise about him being vegan - I was flip in my first post, and didn’t really mean that. I am 99% vegetarian and many of my meals are probably vegan without me even intending it. I don’t think eating vegan full-time would be a good decision, health-wise, for me (though I understand for others it may be the healthiest way for them to eat) I would certainly be willing to try eating vegan for some of my meals. Though I am beginning to see this may not just be about eating, for him, and unfortunately, that will probably be tough for me to compromise on.

I’m curious - if you were in a similar situation, how would you go about educating someone? I have ideas, but will be flexible based on what he says. I do love to talk to people about horses and expose them to things they don’t know about horses/barn life. But what would you tell him? What would you specifically show him at the barn? It’s interesting to think about.

I didn’t. Never did. I talked about accommodating friends with PEANUT allergies. I never used that word in association with gluten since I do not have any allergies, I have a sensitivity… Most people have a sensitivity.

I said that I didn’t have celiac, but also don’t discount that I also very VERY SICK (throwing up, very ill) so also don’t discredit my situation “just because I don’t have celiac”. I had many many problems because this went diagnosed for years.

Calm down and re-read my posts. Really. you are over-reacting. I have studied this A LOT and I am very clear on the difference. Trust me. This has become a matter of being functional and not.

[QUOTE=Haybert;8895317]
Nutshell answer: do you want to be with someone that doesn’t understand the difference between a domestic and a wild animal?

I don’t eat meat bc it’s just not healthy. Nor dairy or cheese.

My choice. I hate factory farms. That basically modern dairy production (as one example-pigs lead awful lives - all this kowtowing to Temple Grandin about slaughter only to have them live in hell) and the commodified way animals are treated.

We are long past the “feeding the world” myth as I see ppl waddle 25 feed from car to grocery store or buy $1 burgers so polluted by chemistry it’s burger in name only.

The biggest lie ppl believe is that you can only get protein from meat and dairy.

Meanwhile I ride my horse. No one in my life forgets my horse is a major player in my day.

It’s not what goes into his mouth that seems to be the issue, it’s what comes out about horses: nonsense.[/QUOTE]

Great post!
Now if the slaughter people will quit bashing the vegans and vegetarians and those who try to limit meats but eat some free range, maybe the discussion can get back to how can the OP show her new beau that she’s not torturing her horse?

[QUOTE=junebug;8895372]
Wow, I go away to a horse show and my topic explodes! I appreciate everyone’s input. At this point I’m considering this a friendship (I do really like this guy and we get along very well) I would like to find out what specifically bothers him about people riding horses, what knowledge/experience he has, and educate him if possible. Who knows? Maybe he’ll “see the light” and can share his experience with others who feel the same way as he does.

I was definitely willing to compromise about him being vegan - I was flip in my first post, and didn’t really mean that. I am 99% vegetarian and many of my meals are probably vegan without me even intending it. I don’t think eating vegan full-time would be a good decision, health-wise, for me (though I understand for others it may be the healthiest way for them to eat) I would certainly be willing to try eating vegan for some of my meals. Though I am beginning to see this may not just be about eating, for him, and unfortunately, that will probably be tough for me to compromise on.

I’m curious - if you were in a similar situation, how would you go about educating someone? I have ideas, but will be flexible based on what he says. I do love to talk to people about horses and expose them to things they don’t know about horses/barn life. But what would you tell him? What would you specifically show him at the barn? It’s interesting to think about.[/QUOTE]

Don’t worry about the thread. There are a few people on this board who advocate horse slaughter and who have eaten horses. They just can’t let it go.
Maybe take your new beau somewhere where the mustangs are being sold? He can see how “home on the range” is not so much fun as all those old western movies.

[QUOTE=junebug;8895372]
Wow, I go away to a horse show and my topic explodes! I appreciate everyone’s input. At this point I’m considering this a friendship (I do really like this guy and we get along very well) I would like to find out what specifically bothers him about people riding horses, what knowledge/experience he has, and educate him if possible. Who knows? Maybe he’ll “see the light” and can share his experience with others who feel the same way as he does.

I was definitely willing to compromise about him being vegan - I was flip in my first post, and didn’t really mean that. I am 99% vegetarian and many of my meals are probably vegan without me even intending it. I don’t think eating vegan full-time would be a good decision, health-wise, for me (though I understand for others it may be the healthiest way for them to eat) I would certainly be willing to try eating vegan for some of my meals. Though I am beginning to see this may not just be about eating, for him, and unfortunately, that will probably be tough for me to compromise on.

I’m curious - if you were in a similar situation, how would you go about educating someone? I have ideas, but will be flexible based on what he says. I do love to talk to people about horses and expose them to things they don’t know about horses/barn life. But what would you tell him? What would you specifically show him at the barn? It’s interesting to think about.[/QUOTE]

I would just be inclusive. As in, “I’m going to the barn would you like to come along?” maybe just have a “grooming day” and good ol’ Dobbin gets scrubbed from head to tail. Or, “I have a show this weekend and could use an extra pair of hands” - hand him a rag and have him do a last minute swipe before you go in the ring, or whatever.
Also, show him that horse people are ‘regular’ humans too. Go out, or have get-togethers with, your horse friends and their partners too. I am sure not all their SO’s are horsey!

I think that’s about all you can do. He’ll either be accepting, or not.

I like your idea of understanding- that disarms the “conflict” aspect, “having to change” aspect (no, he doesn’t HAVE to change anything-- his life)

good luck OP, honestly this isn’t something I would choose to engage in, people hold fast to these ideals. Its like a religion- people want to convert you to their side. It’s hard to have a dialog in many cases. JMHO

[QUOTE=junebug;8895372]
Wow, I go away to a horse show and my topic explodes! I appreciate everyone’s input. At this point I’m considering this a friendship (I do really like this guy and we get along very well) I would like to find out what specifically bothers him about people riding horses, what knowledge/experience he has, and educate him if possible. Who knows? Maybe he’ll “see the light” and can share his experience with others who feel the same way as he does.

I was definitely willing to compromise about him being vegan - I was flip in my first post, and didn’t really mean that. I am 99% vegetarian and many of my meals are probably vegan without me even intending it. I don’t think eating vegan full-time would be a good decision, health-wise, for me (though I understand for others it may be the healthiest way for them to eat) I would certainly be willing to try eating vegan for some of my meals. Though I am beginning to see this may not just be about eating, for him, and unfortunately, that will probably be tough for me to compromise on.

I’m curious - if you were in a similar situation, how would you go about educating someone? I have ideas, but will be flexible based on what he says. I do love to talk to people about horses and expose them to things they don’t know about horses/barn life. But what would you tell him? What would you specifically show him at the barn? It’s interesting to think about.[/QUOTE]

OF beat me to it, but I’ll chime in anyway. Sharing your experience with your horse might be helpful to him. If you can, take him to the barn - “Yes, we can go do your thing, but I need to stop at the barn for an hour; can we start earlier?” and then show him how your horse and you interact and point out whatever he does that shows PBF your horse is happy you are there? My mare really, REALLY likes it when I curry the underside of her neck. She stretches out and the lip sometimes goes all fluttery. Whatever your horse does to show he likes something, have the guy there while horsey is saying “Oh, yeah!”

And showing him the existence many mustangs, and actually most wild animals have these days, may expand his horizons too. In the world we have now, most wild things are fighting a losing battle for living space they need being eaten up by developers. The world envisioned by some of those folks just doesn’t exist anymore. So a lot depends on how indoctrinated he is to the “all horses should be wild” view. Is he willing to enjoy the view of starving horses without water on limited pasture, because humans have taken it all?

In one of Michael Pollan’s books (don’t remember which, but I think this idea is in a section that references potatoes), he starts the book out talking about evolution and how the plants have enhanced their evolutionary success by being something humans want/need. The same can be said for domestic animals; if we didn’t need them, there wouldn’t be so many of them! And there are some theorists who believe that the Woolly Mammoth was actually hunted to extinction by the North American locals. What all this means, is that horses might not even exist if we had only thought of them as food. The fact that horses were willing to carry us (so we needed them ALIVE) was their evolutionary salvation.

I was raised in the Seventh Day Adventist Church, so have been exposed to vegetarian diet for most of my life. And also for most of my life have followed the recommended diet, which was pretty much as shown in the old testament for Israel, in that if you eat an animal, it must have fins and scales, and it must have cloven hoof and chew cud, but it would be better to not eat them. That’s how I was raised from childhood and am still a lacto-ovo-vegie. I have always wondered about the people who get so up in arms about my choices. And some do. It never pays for one group to get all blustery with the other. Like so many things, it all boils down to mutual respect of personal choices.

Junebug, because you didn’t describe him as ADAMANT about it, I have a feeling he may well be able to be enlightened as far as using horses goes, and if he comes around, great. But if he doesn’t, that’s okay too. But in that case, I think your decision will be made for you regarding him.

[QUOTE=Guilherme;8891992]
Maybe so and maybe not. But when you start with a big potential negative that’s not a good sign for the future.

Walk softly.

G.[/QUOTE]

And veerrry slowly!

OP, talk to him and get a sense of where he’s coming from first. That will help you take the next step toward showing him that your riding is not cruel. From there, introduce him to horses in real life and the world they live in with their people. And don’t be afraid to say “yeah, I agree. Certain things suck. But this is how what we can do to make it better.” (I find this type of discussion often centers around the racing world). Go slowly and patiently and kindly. Don’t be defensive. Just show him. Answer his questions honestly and try to get him hands on. Good luck!

[QUOTE=junebug;8895372]

I’m curious - if you were in a similar situation, how would you go about educating someone? I have ideas, but will be flexible based on what he says. I do love to talk to people about horses and expose them to things they don’t know about horses/barn life. But what would you tell him? What would you specifically show him at the barn? It’s interesting to think about.[/QUOTE]
I think I’d just let him hang around the barn and watch you interact with your horse(s), and watch the animals interact with each other in their everyday settings.

You might tell him about some of the resident animals’ eccentricities and habits, so they become real individuals rather than just abstractions in his mind. That, I think, is a huge step in itself.

I also don’t think it’s fair to snark on about how “ignorant” non-horse people are. They’re simply from another world - which, at the end of the day, is hardly a crime.

[QUOTE=yellowbritches;8895852]
And don’t be afraid to say “yeah, I agree. Certain things suck. But this is how what we can do to make it better.” (I find this type of discussion often centers around the racing world).[/QUOTE]

I definitely agree and this was something I thought as well. There are certainly areas of the horse world where I think changes need to be made, but a) opposing horse ownership/riding across the board is not going to do anyone any favors in getting those changes made b) attempting to make those changes from the outside, without any education/experience, is also likely to backfire. Hopefully I can get that across.

[QUOTE=Red Barn;8896005]
I also don’t think it’s fair to snark on about how “ignorant” non-horse people are. They’re simply from another world - which, at the end of the day, is hardly a crime.[/QUOTE]

Agreed! I would never call anyone ignorant, just lacking knowledge/experience. I’m sure there are plenty of things I have opinions on that I might change if I exposed myself to those activities. I guess the difference is that I mainly keep those opinions to myself or share them as just my uneducated opinions, and don’t try to suggest or make changes from the outside. If I cared enough to want to make changes, hopefully I would take the time to educate myself first.

The way I did it with my hubby who was non horsey was I showed him how to take a bridle off.

I did this by saying that he needed to know. If he ever came home to a tacked horse and no Sue. I know he would want to help. I don’t want him trying to take the bridle off and hitting their teeth.

Show him the care you take of the horse. That you care deeply that a simple thing like taking a bridle off correctly means that you are thinking about the comfort of the horse.

From that place my husband started feeding and rugging. From there he started cleaning hooves. From there he cried when we lost my mare. From there he pushed me to get another horse when I lost my mare and said I wouldn’t get another. From there he started riding my old guy.

From there I gave him horse.

From there he made me a dressage arena.

From there he now is a dressage rider!!!