Horseback rider + vegan?

[Alagirl]

[QUOTE=invinoveritas;8895477]
Don’t worry about the thread. There are a few people on this board who advocate horse slaughter and who have eaten horses. They just can’t let it go.
Maybe take your new beau somewhere where the mustangs are being sold? He can see how “home on the range” is not so much fun as all those old western movies.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=invinoveritas;8895475]Great post!
Now if the slaughter people will quit bashing the vegans and vegetarians and those who try to limit meats but eat some free range, maybe the discussion can get back to how can the OP show her new beau that she’s not torturing her horse?[/QUOTE]

Oh wow…

[OveroHunter]

Wow, I too left for the weekend… How did this turn into a slaughter thread??

I guess being vegan doesn’t automatically make you a PETA crazed “animals should live in peace in the wild” (or of course put down by mass numbers in shelters since that seems to be their prerogative as well) person, but it has always seemed to me that those people do not care to be educated. Good luck OP.

I’d say best case - he gets over you owning and riding a horse, but I’d be ready to revamp your tack and boots to synthetic, non-leather materials…

[Lady_Eboshi]

Or, just call meaningless cumbersome self-imposed life restrictions by their right name and throw your line back into the water.

One of the most fatuous pieces of hubris to make the scene in the last 5 years is the idea that YOU are going to Change the World by going organic, vegan, fair-trade, zero-carbon, whatever your “cause” is. The way it’s seen by people not on your trip is that either you think You are that Important , or you’re trying to put yourself up on a cooler-than-thou pedestal, OR you’re just opting out of “responsibility” for aspects of life that make you uncomfortable. NONE of that will actually change anything about the world, but it WILL cause a lot of your friends to roll their eyes.

People on secular virtue trips need to get the word that everyone else doesn’t necessarily see them the way they see themselves. :winkgrin:

[Alagirl]

[QUOTE=Lady Eboshi;8897716]
Or, just call meaningless cumbersome self-imposed life restrictions by their right name and throw your line back into the water.

One of the most fatuous pieces of hubris to make the scene in the last 5 years is the idea that YOU are going to Change the World by going organic, vegan, fair-trade, zero-carbon, whatever your “cause” is. The way it’s seen by people not on your trip is that either you think You are that Important , or you’re trying to put yourself up on a cooler-than-thou pedestal, OR you’re just opting out of “responsibility” for aspects of life that make you uncomfortable. NONE of that will actually change anything about the world, but it WILL cause a lot of your friends to roll their eyes.

People on secular virtue trips need to get the word that everyone else doesn’t necessarily see them the way they see themselves. :winkgrin:[/QUOTE]

Now, now!

I support free trade - because I think the $$ for coffee should not get stuck with Starbucks, but the growers should get their fair share as well, and it helps to keep children from being forced into slave labor.

I suppose it is a matter of how zealous one gets about it.

I’m not putting people down for buying regular coffee.
The chocolate thing would put me in the PETA category though…so I try to not contribute to the problem myself.
But hey, chocolate! (And my phone is as dumb as a rock!)

But yeah, getting offended in face of being called ‘unethical’ in essence for not being vegan, and in light of that being thrown under the slaughter bus as if it was kicking puppies and roasting kittens…

Speaking of the latter, I am a cat person.
They eat meat, and so do I, and we like it.
And they are not very nice to their meat when they catch it…rather Chinese in their methods.

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=Alagirl;8897878]
Now, now!

I support free trade - because I think the $$ for coffee should not get stuck with Starbucks, but the growers should get their fair share as well, and it helps to keep children from being forced into slave labor.

I suppose it is a matter of how zealous one gets about it.

I’m not putting people down for buying regular coffee.
The chocolate thing would put me in the PETA category though…so I try to not contribute to the problem myself.
But hey, chocolate! (And my phone is as dumb as a rock!)

But yeah, getting offended in face of being called ‘unethical’ in essence for not being vegan, and in light of that being thrown under the slaughter bus as if it was kicking puppies and roasting kittens…

Speaking of the latter, I am a cat person.
They eat meat, and so do I, and we like it.
And they are not very nice to their meat when they catch it…rather Chinese in their methods.[/QUOTE]

Now, now … there you go, insulting the Chinese, not PC at all.

[Lady_Eboshi]

C’mon, you’ve hear that Cat Song:

“We are Siam-eeze if you pleea-ze!”

And yes, they are BRUTAL with their prey. Not PC at ALL, those kitties!

My “Perilous Poozers” all got rabies shots yesterday, and were Not Amused.

[ReSomething]

[QUOTE=Alterrain;8892511]
I’m vegan! Been one for oh, probably 15+ years now. Hubby is NOT. And I will admit, I see more self-righteousness from vegans than any other group. I have 2 dogs (they eat conventional dog food) and ride (“enslave”) horses and I’ve had to sever ties with more than one vegan friend bc they would NOT GIVE IT UP about my dogs/ husband/ horses.

In your situation? Yes, I think it’s doomed. Sorry.[/QUOTE]

What, you enslaved your husband too? Tell me how . . .

I really do not understand the full on mindset that says domesticated animals are slaves, because carrying that to its endpoint means either we don’t breed them for our own purposes or we don’t control their breeding by spay/neuter and allow dogs/cats/other domesticates free rein as ferals, which is to my mind an abominable thought.
We are going to be doing something with them, whether it is standing back and letting them starve to death with our noble idealism or letting them run rampant across the public and not so public lands - I am not so sure I want to drive and share the road everywhere with herds of cattle that are Freeeee. Imagine how fast the vegans will be advocating shooting them for the sake of public safety - but not for consumption, heaven forbid.

There really are people out there that believe that one should not hunt because one can buy meat from the grocery store where it magically appears on shelves, vegans know better about where meat comes from but all animals are raised on horrible factory farms according to PETA, you could be walking a real potential ideological minefield that has no safe places.

[Alagirl]

[QUOTE=Bluey;8897895]
Now, now … there you go, insulting the Chinese, not PC at all.[/QUOTE]

:lol:

I will let the cats know.

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=Alagirl;8898045]
:lol:

I will let the cats know.[/QUOTE]

Meao, meao … those poor slave cats.

[Lady_Eboshi]

When they want to remind me of the hierarchy, my cats “mark their territory” and watch me have to clean it up.

Evil beasts! :lol:

[Alagirl]

[QUOTE=Bluey;8898052]
Meao, meao … those poor slave cats.;)[/QUOTE]

making them sound Chinese now? :no:

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=Alagirl;8898063]
making them sound Chinese now? :no:[/QUOTE]

How do you spell that?
I was also thinking, that doesn’t quite sound like a cat.

Googled it, “meow”.

[Alagirl]

[QUOTE=Bluey;8898070]
How do you spell that?
I was also thinking, that doesn’t quite sound like a cat.

Googled it, “meow”.:)[/QUOTE]

miau

[ReSomething]

How to educate someone about your horses? First he finds out that we are the slaves, not the horses,lol.

No really, what we have with domesticated animals is a commensal relationship that I believe was referred to earlier in the thread. All domesticated animals exist because they had value to us in this state and we helped them survive and breed and they helped us in their various ways, whether we ate of their milk or their flesh or wore their hides and fur or kept them at the fireside as companions and helpmates or housed them as protectors of our grain. Many religions give animal spirits a large part to play in the survival of the group and recognize the sacrifice that is made on their part. I think we may have moved past that now but we still have to use good sense in how we treat these species.

I recall over 20 years ago a veal calf operation was taken down by what I recall was ALF in Petaluma CA, not too far from where I worked. They set the place on fire and destroyed it. Unfortunately all the veal calves were killed in the process, most were not properly lead to freedom but instead were either never removed or ran back and were trapped inside and burned to death.

Veganism tends to get tied to animal rights advocacy when it can be a simple health and world view, that’s one of the issues to tease out.

I don’t know if the PETA philosophy is that domesticated animals are no longer of use to us, that we need to move on from this relationship, but we created them, we made multiple species that would never have existed had it not been for the ecological niches that we created with our need for food and transportation, for companionship and help hunting, for vermin removal in our granaries. And the Bible does say we have dominion over them and that implies a responsibility to take care of them and create some overarching plan.
And so far NOBODY has come up with any sort of consistent treatment of our domestic animal species, ethically and legally we are all over the place, PETA is one of the worst ones, haven’t they been proven to mislead people about what they intend to do to any shelter dogs they have been in charge of - they kill - they do not place, because they reject further enslavement?

Definitely tread softly.

[yellowbritches]

[QUOTE=Lady Eboshi;8897716]
Or, just call meaningless cumbersome self-imposed life restrictions by their right name and throw your line back into the water.

One of the most fatuous pieces of hubris to make the scene in the last 5 years is the idea that YOU are going to Change the World by going organic, vegan, fair-trade, zero-carbon, whatever your “cause” is. The way it’s seen by people not on your trip is that either you think You are that Important , or you’re trying to put yourself up on a cooler-than-thou pedestal, OR you’re just opting out of “responsibility” for aspects of life that make you uncomfortable. NONE of that will actually change anything about the world, but it WILL cause a lot of your friends to roll their eyes.

People on secular virtue trips need to get the word that everyone else doesn’t necessarily see them the way they see themselves. :winkgrin:[/QUOTE]
Lord have mercy. I will never understand why people get so critical of what people choose to eat or not eat. Why the heck does it matter to you if I choose not to eat meat? I have my reasons, and they make sense to me. I am under no grand illusion that I will save the world, but it works for me. I do not force my vegetarianism down anyone’s throat, and I know no one, veggie or vegan, who does either. Yeah, it’s annoying when people harangue you for your choices (hmmm…much like some posters on here telling those of us who choose not to eat meat we’re dumb), but there’s a lot of annoying people in the world and we all just have to learn to deal with it and be civil.

Eating choices have been added to the list of “things you don’t discuss in polite society.” Along with politics and religion.

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=yellowbritches;8898205]
Lord have mercy. I will never understand why people get so critical of what people choose to eat or not eat. Why the heck does it matter to you if I choose not to eat meat? I have my reasons, and they make sense to me. I am under no grand illusion that I will save the world, but it works for me. I do not force my vegetarianism down anyone’s throat, and I know no one, veggie or vegan, who does either. Yeah, it’s annoying when people harangue you for your choices (hmmm…much like some posters on here telling those of us who choose not to eat meat we’re dumb), but there’s a lot of annoying people in the world and we all just have to learn to deal with it and be civil.

Eating choices have been added to the list of “things you don’t discuss in polite society.” Along with politics and religion.[/QUOTE]

That bolded above?

People are free to eat or not eat what they wish, of course!

The problem is when some decide that they want to change the world for everyone, according to what THEY decide is the right path for everyone.

I hope no one needs examples, do they, where vegans are trying to eliminate animal products, even from school lunches?

THAT is when it starts to matter, when now some want to decide for all.

NO ONE is making vegans eat animal products.
SOME of the vegan commitment to veganism demands vegans fight the good fight to make the world vegan.

THAT is objectionable.

[Alagirl]

[QUOTE=yellowbritches;8898205]
Lord have mercy. I will never understand why people get so critical of what people choose to eat or not eat. Why the heck does it matter to you if I choose not to eat meat? I have my reasons, and they make sense to me. I am under no grand illusion that I will save the world, but it works for me. I do not force my vegetarianism down anyone’s throat, and I know no one, veggie or vegan, who does either. Yeah, it’s annoying when people harangue you for your choices (hmmm…much like some posters on here telling those of us who choose not to eat meat we’re dumb), but there’s a lot of annoying people in the world and we all just have to learn to deal with it and be civil.

Eating choices have been added to the list of “things you don’t discuss in polite society.” Along with politics and religion.[/QUOTE]

well, as I stated before, when (generic) you implies that ‘your’ lifestyle is ethical, that leads to the default conclusion that any other is not.

Yes, then ‘The’ lifestyle is crammed down throats like grain into a duck.

I posted the link to a 2 day Vegan shindig in the UK. Pictures looked good, etc, then in the fine print ‘the ethical festival’, I mean, fruit batting hell, really?!

Lady E? well, nobody really ares about her opinion, that why she has to amp it up to be still heard, but I get the essence of it: your new found Nirvana might really grin on your surrounding if you make it such a big issue.

Fads blow up and people get tired of them, like gluten free eating.
It’s heaven for those with true issues, they no longer have to opt to sell their firstborn to the healthfood store for pasta or bread, but the mot vocals are those who jump from band wagon to band wagon.

I don’t mind people not eating what I eat.
Give me a heads up, I do what I can, and try not to use chicken broth in the mashed potatoes…
But don’t turn your nose up at the dinner table (has happened), I know I made somebody upset when I would not try a bread pudding dish, but I had a complete mental blockage about that. But it wasn’t an ideological, ethical or moral thing.

[Trakehner]

Phewie! This got to be a standard Coth-hand-flapping-insult-throwing mess. Add Parelli/Lyons/dogs at barns and politics and we’d be all set for a record donnybrook! Woohoo!

Simply, it’s not our responsibility to “educate” anyone. They don’t care what you believe and they don’t care that you understand what they believe.

Went with a vegetarian/vegan once…the wonders of burdock and tempe etc. Burdock root is actually pretty good when it’s not providing burrs for my horses tails. I’d leave her house and stop to get a burger…Mmmmmm, burger!

Why ever go with someone with a disparate view about something that should be as simple as food? Too much hassle for too little benefit.

[Highflyer]

[QUOTE=Alagirl;8898381]
well, as I stated before, when (generic) you implies that ‘your’ lifestyle is ethical, that leads to the default conclusion that any other is not.

Yes, then ‘The’ lifestyle is crammed down throats like grain into a duck.

I posted the link to a 2 day Vegan shindig in the UK. Pictures looked good, etc, then in the fine print ‘the ethical festival’, I mean, fruit batting hell, really?!

Lady E? well, nobody really ares about her opinion, that why she has to amp it up to be still heard, but I get the essence of it: your new found Nirvana might really grin on your surrounding if you make it such a big issue.

Fads blow up and people get tired of them, like gluten free eating.
It’s heaven for those with true issues, they no longer have to opt to sell their firstborn to the healthfood store for pasta or bread, but the mot vocals are those who jump from band wagon to band wagon.

I don’t mind people not eating what I eat.
Give me a heads up, I do what I can, and try not to use chicken broth in the mashed potatoes…
But don’t turn your nose up at the dinner table (has happened), I know I made somebody upset when I would not try a bread pudding dish, but I had a complete mental blockage about that. But it wasn’t an ideological, ethical or moral thing.[/QUOTE]

If they had said it was"fun" would that imply no one else’s festival was fun?

[Alagirl]

[QUOTE=Highflyer;8898438]
If they had said it was"fun" would that imply no one else’s festival was fun?[/QUOTE]

fun isn’t as loaded a term as ethical.

You can be unfun and still be a good person.
You can’t be an unethical person without being scum.