Horses- smarter than we thought?

I’m not sure I totally understand the experiment, but worth sharing just for this quote

“ The researchers believe the fact the horses adapted so quickly indicates they understood the rule of the stop light the entire time, but had no reason to follow the rule when there was no consequence for getting it wrong”

Thoughts?

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0% surprised. :rofl:

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We have an unfortunate tendency to conflate “wants to please humans” with “intelligence,” which leads to dogs being thought “most intelligent pet.”

In my experience, it takes horses exactly one exposure to learn a behavior for good or evil. But they don’t necessarily obey every cue slavishly. They are very good at ignoring cues if they have strong contrary opinions at the moment.

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I’m also 0% surprised. Horses are fundamentally observers, and it would make no sense for them to evolve (continuously survive) if they did not have some semblance of observational intelligence.

I think horses are highly intelligent. One needs to only watch a working horse keep a momma cow at bay while the farmer weighs and tags the calf to understand that they A. understand observational cues and B. have a strong desire to work with humans based on A.

One of my geldings has surprised me with how observant he is. He’s clearly practical and intelligent. He knows how to open sliding doors, pays attention to everything you do, and also knows when I am trailering before I ever even start the truck based on the location I park my car in! He knows to look both ways before crossing a road on hacks, and seeks you out if he has a fly on his back. He doesn’t always use this for good and can be crafty - including knowing exactly how to open doors and get into grain sheds even when they’re tied shut. He knows how to open bins, push doors open if they are closed, and will move things out of his way to get to what he wants. I’m just grateful he hasn’t figured out how to open double ended snaps yet.

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My driving pony, Salt, could open panic snaps in his mouth. He was very crafty about it–I wouldn’t even realize he was working on it, then I’d go to bridle him and realize he’d been standing there untied for however long. I finally caught him doing it–he was working it around in his mouth until it opened. My daughter always said he had thumbs in his mouth. He also opened gates, untied other horses and led them around, and was pretty darned smart. I started double tying him when I was harnessing him, and he seemed to think that was dirty pool. I didn’t mind him releasing himself and just standing there, but it worried me that something huge could cause him to spook when partly harnessed. Small stuff certainly never bothered him until he started having cataracts.

Rebecca

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Horses, dogs, cats, even cows, all have their intelligent insights. They can think, they can learn, they can be intuitive. This isn’t news to those who spend a lot of time around animals. I often joke that a certain horse is smarter than most people I meet. But it isn’t really a joke. They are certainly more honest than most humans. If someone doesn’t think that horses have a certain intelligence, they don’t know horses well. Horses make suggestions, solve problems, and often outsmart the humans who are working with them. When encouraged and congratulated for solving problems, they can excel in this respect. When “shut down” and discouraged from participating in thinking pursuits, we get that “shut down” mechanical performance.

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I think there is something to be said for that. I have shared this before, the gelding mentioned above came to me from the track. He was mechanical (as you put it) and stand-offish, and you could tell he was apprehensive when entering the stall. When I started clicker training it was transformative. His eye completely changed. I’m confident if I never gave him that chance to participate versus be told what to do, that he would not be half as outgoing as he is today. And yeah – all his creative problem solving happened after the fact.

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Absolutely, I’ve seen this with dairy cows. The more you interact with them and allow them to express themselves the more you see how smart they are. They observe everything.

The part in the article about how the horses understood the rules but didn’t change their behavior when there was no consequence - people do that too.

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The older gelding where I keep my horse knows how to open doors with knobs if the key is in it and I believe even if it isn’t. He can open latches and the gates with the swing arm, he knows how to open them. We have to hook the chains to keep him from escaping.

He breaks out of his stall whenever he wants and I noticed one day I left everyone in and he didn’t escape. The next day I accidentally left the tack/feed room door open and guess who snuck out and just had his butt sticking out of the door when I finished my ride?

We have two young horses and a relatively new mare. The mare and the baby gelding are quickly learning his tricks. The older gelding knows them but he is a people pleaser and the people are pleased with those tricks. My mare is a LADY and would never lower herself to such shenanigans!

Interestingly, we accidentally stepped on a yellow jacket nest and my poor mare got stung a bunch. Last night there were two trails in our little trail system she did NOT want to go down - not usually an issue but I was wondering if she saw or heard something that made her think yellow jackets were there. So she doesn’t have to go down them until later in the year when the yellow jackets aren’t active anymore.

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This is completely unrelated to any of the adorable stories shared in this thread, and really doesn’t even follow the theme of the article - but I had to laugh at the initial sentence because it reminded me…

We once had a carriage horse get loose on the streets of Dallas. His driver had a medical emergency, fell off the carriage, and in the ensuing chaos - the horse trotted off. Obviously, this caused an issue - as there was traffic and it was downtown. However – the police were quickly able to catch and contain the horse because… he was making a beeline to the end of day stables, but stopping for cross traffic every time he encountered a red light. :rofl: Luckily, no horses, humans, or property were damaged in the debacle - but the notion of the carriage horses being attentive to the traffic lights and altering their behavior always made me smile.

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Duke University Professor Brian Hare has a couple of lay versions of his research called, “The Genius of Dogs,” and “Survival of the Friendliest.” His use of the term “theory of mind” has a million parallels in the horse world, one potentially expressed in this NTU research.

The term is shorthand for the sense of a common goal and willingness to try new things, add effort, experiment without being asked, etc., to accomplish the goal. People have it in spades, well, most people. :slight_smile: There are tests via the Duke website you can give your dog to see how high he or she measures in this metric.

I read his “Survival of the Friendliest” because of a near obsession with interspecies cooperation through evolution, especially horse-human, and kept thinking he needs someone to add horses to his Duke dog lab.

He’s a bit of a self-promoter, but hey, professor salaries aren’t what they used to be.

https://brianhare.net/

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And anyone who’s had an OTTB knows that if they start getting a little fresh in hand, all you have to do is attach the stud chain (not applying any pressure—just using it instead of a cotton lead rope) and suddenly they are strolling along next to you like butter wouldn’t melt in their mouths.

They know their nice ground manners, but they also know perfectly well that a cotton lead doesn’t offer any real correction when they feel like yahooing a little bit, but a stud shank does.

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:joy: So true! My sister had an Arab gelding that had great manners but would sometimes get too impatient when in the grooming stall. She kept a short chain in the brush basket and would shake it when he acted up. He would turn into a statue. In one way it was funny but, we always wondered if maybe the strong reaction was from an over zealous trainer. (She never used the chain on him and when she had bought him she was told to “shake a curb chain if he won’t stand still” :thinking:)

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one of our mares had her rider fall off about four miles from home. horse was said to just look at the girl on the ground with an expression of “that wasn’t MY fault” then turned to head for home.

She had to cross a four lane divided busy major highway to het home. A police unit was behind her at a safe distant since they said it appeared she knew where she was going and did follow all the laws,

She went to the crosswalk of the busy highway looked both ways then when clear went to the middle then stopped again to look both ways to make sure it was clear before stepping into traffic lanes.

We see her trotting up the drive with a police unit behind her and daughter and her friend riding double behind them.

Police said they did not try to catch her since she it appeared she knew just what she needed to do.

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Oh man, this is NOT universally true. We had a real fractious ex Racer in for rehab and he ALWAYS knew who as and who was not paying attention. Hand walking or eventually trotting up and down the aisle (riding him was a nightmare for our trainer so that was out) he only escaped when the younger ones were leading him. Trainer was probably quick enough to react when he started to play and he learned to be good with her. I never let up on the chain - there was always at least a little bit of pressure. The younger ones (junior/senior in HS) would let that chain slack and weren’t quick enough so he would jump forward cow kick, they would jump out of the way of the hoof, he would shake his head a bit and BOOM, free and out the door.

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We had to take one of mine to the vet clinic several times a few years ago. By the third time she was was a pita to load but only if we were going to the clinic. If we were going out to ride she self loaded like normal. She was almost impossible to trick: she clearly was observing the difference in my behavior and clothing on riding vs clinic days.

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I have a horse who I turn out to grass in the evening. In the day time, he lives in a sand paddock. Recently, there have been these nasty little biting flies. So the other day, I open his gate to turn him out in the evening, and he walks over to me and stands. He bobs his head a few times, and looks at me. He wants fly spray. I go to the barn and get the fly spray, and spray him. He has no halter on, I don’t have to hold onto him for this. He wants it done, and he has communicated that to me. When finished, he wanders off to find some grass. He’s not stupid. He knows what he wants, he knows how to let me know.

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Man, can he communicate that to the gelding I mentioned above? He hates fly-spray. He will stand for it but his whole body tenses up. Meanwhile, I got a mare who I am positive knows that fly spray = fewer bugs. She just melts when it’s put on.

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:roll_eyes: When I worked (WS) for a City stable that housed Carriage horses, a group of us went for a nighttime Bachelorette drive.
About 8 of us crammed into a Vis a Vis, not completely sober…
The horse took us on his route through city streets to the nearby park & back to the barn.
Largely on his own :smirk:

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I’m sure everyone remembers the story of Sergeant Reckless….

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