Horse's tongue hanging out of his mouth (for 5-10+ seconds) when ridden

I’ve been dealing with a very frustrating tongue problem with my horse since the beginning of August, that I thought was solved but has gotten worse than ever. This is going to be a long post, but if someone has insight, I would really appreciate it. I recently bought this horse (after knowing him since January), and he is an incredibly talented young horse.

Background Info

I have known this horse since January. He is a five year old Hanoverian. He had a bad accident due to some mishandling as a three year old that led to a dislocated jaw. The people who bought him after the incident were very diligent about pursuing his problems. But despite having multiple vets, dentists, chiropractors, etc, it took a long time to find and fix the issue. So he was in a lot of pain for a while, I’m sure. He had a natural tendency to curl and evade the bit, but with proper training, he was really progressing. In all the time I have known him, he has been sound and healthy. He has always been mouthy, and will either try to chew on the crossties, or he will sometimes curl his own tongue under and suck on it while standing around.

August 8th
This is when our problems started. We were having some wonderful rides just previous to that. But then he started bearing down on the bit and curling his tongue out to the left during the ride in protest of the contact. We were riding him in a loose ring french link that could come in place like a mullen when he pulls against the contact.

August 12th
Had first vet out. She floated his teeth - he was not due yet, but he had developed some sharp edges and had an ulcer on the right side of the mouth. She felt confident that it would heal up and he would be back to normal soon.

He definitely was not pleased to have a bit in his mouth during this time. But he’s young, energetic horse who was turning into a demon with time off. I did not ride him, but I would lunge him with a bridle + cavesson. His tongue would not come out as much when being lunged. When I would use side reins, his tongue would come out (always to the left) occasionally when he came against the contact. If I lunged him in a halter (god save us all), his tongue would not come out.

August 26th
Had a second vet out, because the tongue issue was not going away and he was still bearing down on the contact. She found an infection along the gum line of one of his teeth, on the right side. She prescribed him a week of antibiotics. By the 5th-6th day, he seemed a lot happier and I started riding him again.

September 3rd
Decided to have a vet out who had experience in holistic eastern medicine as well as her DVM license. She decided to do acupuncture in his face, and also did some adjustment of his hyoid bone, because he was very tight there.

The ride after she worked on him, his mouth was the quietest it had been in a month. He has always been a mouthy horse, but for the past month, he would never stop chewing and playing with the bit. His tongue came out a little bit, but I figured it was just a habit that we would need to overcome.

September 14th
After some really good rides the past week where we thought everything was resolved, we started playing with bits. My trainer and I had been feeling lukewarm about the bit he was in previously and had been talking about switching it. He seemed to like a copper two piece eggbutt, but still there was some tongue, so we tried something else. I rode him in a three piece eggbutt with a flat french link on this ride, and he started hanging his tongue out of his mouth to the left, for 5-10 seconds or more at a time. Mostly at the canter.

I switched back to the other bit (and have tried some others too) - I can’t stop this behavior. I have tried switching bits, riding with incredibly light contact, throwing the reins at him when he sticks his tongue out. Nothing works. And it is hanging out of his mouth.

September 18th
Had a fourth vet out, who has a knack for figuring out the bizarre cases, and he was completely stumped. Since Monday, the tongue will just come out for very long periods of time. The vet feels this will be a “diagnosis by elimination” and isn’t ruling anything out at this point. Could be a bad habit, neurological, dental issue… We’re going to schedule some radiographs of his mouth.

So here’s what I know:

  • Tongue always comes out to the left
  • Tongue does not come out of his mouth unless he has a bit in
  • Tongue comes out more when he is being ridden, but still occasionally on the lunge line
  • He is not flipping his tongue over the bit.
  • There is nothing I can do to make his tongue go back in his mouth.
  • Tongue comes out the most at the canter, for 5-10+ seconds, occasionally at the walk, usually not at the trot unless it was out while we were doing a down transition from the canter.

I’m heartbroken about this. I just bought my dream horse - he is the most incredibly powerful and talented horse I have ridden in my life (and I have been lucky enough to sot on some nice horses), and right now, he feels broken. I’ve been trying to ride him in a hackamore, but he gets very strong in that. I also want to try a figure 8 noseband on him, but want to make sure there isn’t an underlying issue going on before I put a bit back in his mouth.

My boy - before we started falling apart.

PS: Riding him bitless - while it may work in the short term - is simply not a long term solution.

Try a gentle bit - I like the HS eggbut w/ the lozenge in the middle. Try him in a drop in the mean time.

How are his hocks and stifles? As much as I hate to sound like a broken record, time and time again I have seen waggly tongues be a sign of discomfort in these areas. Including heaviness in the bit, rooting and a general loss of enthusiasm each ride. Had one myself who would really start to waggle his tongue when his old stifle injury flared up.

Unfortunately the rogue tongue behavior does sometimes stick so it’s best to try to eliminate the issue ASAP before it evolves into a permanent behavior. Nix any treats on crossties and tacking up, and keep work sessions brief with generous breaks in between the harder exercises. Some people will tell you they are “sticking their tongue out in concentration” but I don’t buy that – the waggling tongue is a sign of evasion and discomfort, not concentration.

Have you treated/checked for ulcers?

Have you tried an anti-anxiety treatment to see if it is anxiety?

Did you get the Sept 3rd vet out again? Often things need multiple treatments to resolve, and if this vet to some extent resolved the issue, perhaps you should pursue this further.

Thanks for the input. I don’t think it is hocks/stifles because he won’t do it bitless, just with a bit. And he’s also 5. I have tried a rubber bit and some other options that are very gentle. Doesn’t matter.

[QUOTE=Windermere;8322952]
Thanks for the input. I don’t think it is hocks/stifles because he won’t do it bitless, just with a bit. And he’s also 5. I have tried a rubber bit and some other options that are very gentle. Doesn’t matter.[/QUOTE]

Are you working him as hard bitless? Of course he isn’t going to do it if you are not working him as hard – most horses aren’t going to be evasive when the work is easy. You would be surprised. His age and the amount of work would lead me to believe this is absolutely a discomfort issue. I’d look into ulcers and saddle fit after.

It doesn’t matter how hard he works with the bit in his mouth, the tongue comes out pretty quickly once we start cantering.

Will definitely think about ulcers (assuming you mean stomach ulcers - I’ve had a lot of vets looking in his mouth lately) though. But I don’t know why it would happen with the bit but not without the bit if that was the case. And why it’s mostly at the canter and walk.

Very interested in talking to my vet about anti-anxiety meds. With his jaw pain issues in the past, and then the issues we had earlier… I could see it.

You both make a beautiful pair :slight_smile:

Has your vet mentioned TMJ pain? I have to wonder if his jaw moving when he has a bit in his mouth is causing discomfort and he is fixing his tongue over to that side to alleviate that (especially when he puts his tongue in a specific spot every time and it’s a predictable pattern). Maybe a bute trial?

Could be TMJ pain… will definitely look into that. Reading about other people’s experiences with tongue problems is really scaring me. Too many people saying that it is a habit that can’t be broken. Basically makes my brand new horse unrideable in dressage and also (not that I am thinking about it) completely unmarketable.

While I think all the above suggestions about looking for a pain issue are very valid, have you tried a thin bit? I’ve been having some issues with my new horse and found that changing him to a 14mm and changing metals from Aurigan to Sensogan has made a comforting difference. The bigger diameter bit was just too big for him-and he’s a big boy-and the Aurigan just made him uncomfortably drooly.

He could still have some residual pain from the jaw problem. I second the Bute trial. Be sure to give it time to kick in before riding.

I have a gelding who’s always been fussy w/ bits. I experimented with latex bit wrap and he loves it. He thinks it’s like bubble gum wrapped around that hard metal thing in his mouth. Just a thought.

Maybe try those elastic rein extensions to soften the contact. Just thinking out loud.

Has anyone else ridden him? Does he do it with other riders?

My regular trainer has sat on him and he has done it for her too. My out-of-state trainer will be in town for a clinic this weekend, though, so she’ll have a chance to sit on him and give her input.

I am fortunate enough to have a top university vet school within an hour of me, and he’s insured for major medical. After all the negative experiences I’ve been reading about with tongue issues and how hard they are to solve, I am planning to skip the follow-up with the 4th vet, who didn’t seem rushed to solve this, and take him up to the vet hospital for a pretty thorough workup involving a neurology specialist and radiographs. If there’s a physical cause, I’m going to find it.

[QUOTE=Windermere;8322902]

September 14th
After some really good rides the past week where we thought everything was resolved, we started playing with bits. .[/QUOTE]

Why?

What was his original bit?

Which bit was he comfortable in?

French links can have unintended action when in the mouth. Unlike a snaffle which has one link and is easier to keep in the center of the mouth, the french link, with two linkage spots, can wind up riding uncomfortably onto the horse’s bars. I’ve discovered sores on many horse’s bars over the years due to french links. Ported bit can also have unanticipated and uncomfortable action in the mouth.

I doubt it will work but I’m going to suggest it anyway- a bit that has more room for his tongue. I have a fat tongued horse that won’t go in anything else, I managed to find one for rent at The Cheshire Horse to be able to try it first.
The Myler MB33WL
http://www.doversaddlery.com/myler-w-lw-prt-lse-ring-mb33wl/p/X1-010320/

Does anyone remember Robinson ? Richard Spooner’s horse? he always had his tongue out during riding/jumping…never seemed to bother him…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EbRuAHhs5U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWnydKovOq8

I have been a fan of R. Spooner ever since watching him and Robinson!

Are you really sure there is a problem?

I’m surprised no one has mentioned trying an English hackamore. Might that be possible?

From his history, I might suspect TMJ issues as well. Perhaps someone has missed retained caps, or a wolf tooth?

I would do a full body exam, to check for lameness, then I would just ignore it. Some horses have weird habits when they are young and being put into more intense work, and eventually grow out of it.
If I had to guess, I would say he is doing it out of stress. He remembers that back when he was in pain, sticking his tongue our helped. So during times of stress, he sticks it out. It might be his ‘security blanket’.
You say he does it at the canter most of the time. The canter can be a very hard gait for a horse to be balanced in, especially in a narrow dressage arena. Maybe canter him in a loose frame, in a large area, and see if he does it still.
If after a few months he is still in his tongue habit, then congrats, you have a jumper! :slight_smile:

Yes, there is a problem. In dressage, this will be heavily penalized. Having the tongue come out intermittently will lower your submission score and take off a few points. Having it come out for long periods of time will be heavily criticized by competitors, judges, TDs, etc. And will result in a very poor score, if not elimination.

As for an English hackamore - I am currently riding him bitless, but that is not a long term solution (as I said in my main post). Bitless bridles are not legal per USDF rules.

@Stormy Day - I completely agree that stress could be part of it. But I can’t figure out why the tongue behavior would escalate from “occasionally when feeling pressured” to “tongue wagging out of his mouth for strides at a time”.

I’m going to second the thin bit. I’ve had super results with bradoons used just as a snaffle. I’ve also had great success with the Neue Schule Comfy Contact bits, they’re pricey, but worth it. The eggbutt version is very stable in the mouth and seems to alleviate any tongue issues in the fat tongued pony I have used it on. Though he would stick his tongue straight out!

I think I saw that you are a dressage rider so this bit isn’t legal for dressage but is very very kind to horses with sensitive tongues… Mine likes to try and get his tongue over the bit and we tried him in this and he loooves it. I’m an eventer and won’t be able to use it for dressage but I just got him and want to make him a little happier for now…

http://www.bombers.co.za/showjumping/bits/williams/product/5703-williams-happy-tongue.html

This is what we will try for dressage since this is legal…

http://www.bombers.co.za/dressage/bits/loose-ring/product/3809-loose-ring-lock-up.html
It locks so that it doesn’t do the nut cracker effect. Worth a shot! the only place you can buy them in the U.S. Is www.sweetironbits.com

[QUOTE=IndyEquestrian;8324301]
I’m going to second the thin bit. I’ve had super results with bradoons used just as a snaffle. I’ve also had great success with the Neue Schule Comfy Contact bits, they’re pricey, but worth it. The eggbutt version is very stable in the mouth and seems to alleviate any tongue issues in the fat tongued pony I have used it on. Though he would stick his tongue straight out![/QUOTE]

Definitely interested in trying these bits, but it looks like they are on recall. Do you know why that is?

I can put up with him occasionally sticking his tongue straight out, as long as it isn’t curling around to the side or for long periods of time like it currently is.