<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Delighted:
But hey, what do I know? I have a Dutch WB… (well, and a TB and an App. Can they be warmbloods too?)
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Well the app can…but that’s only because you have indepthly bred her to obtain an olympic warmblood champion (and she has the look of eagles). The tb is SOL. You can’t change the spots on a tb.
SuperPony,
To answer your question, as I understand it, the large, heavy draft horses of modern times are as much a modern invention as the modern european sportshorse. I cannot find any references in historical data to their existence. The heavy horse of the middle ages appears to have been significantly lighter, perhaps somewhere between the “heavier” original warmbloods (Spanish horses, Fresians, etc.) and the modern draft. Both animals were bred from the ancient smaller drafts. Now have I been able to find any specific reference to the weight measurements of these “draft” horses in the Medeival era? No, therefore I may be incorrect. I do know, however, that as far as “farm & field” work, oxen were certainly more commonly used than heavy draft horses.
Even to this date, the heavy drafts are not commonly used in 3rd world countries. Heiffer International attempts to place “working” and income producing animals, and they don’t even have a category for sponsoring draft horses, or horses of any kind, for that matter. Horses are not as practical in farm use as oxen, they are more difficult and expensive to maintain in proper physical condition.
I think this whole disagreement can be boiled down to differing opinions in what constitutes objective historical research. It seems to me, and again, IMHO, the camp arguing that european warmbloods are not descended from drafts seem to be getting data from the various studbooks (which for various marketing purposes may or may not have an axe to grind), whereas the camp arguing for the draft cross descent of all warmbloods (myself included) are looking more at the general history of the horse, or at european history.
I guess, and again IMHO, I just don’t feel that a studbook from a european warmbook registry would be considered “objective” evidence for these purposes. It’s a little like looking at Ford’s data on an F150. The brochure might be interesting, and it might be informative. But is it objective? Probably not. I’d rather get my data from a broader source with less bias – Consumer Reports, etc.
Having said that, is anyone saying that the small “w” warmbloods arguably created out of the hotblood x coldblood cross would be the SAME as the older european crosses? I don’t believe they are.
I do think we should all be able to agree that ALL warmbloods (europeans and otherwise) were the result of cross-breeding to refine the best elements of the draft breeds in existence at the time by infusing “hot” blood. This would be as true of the european warmbloods as it is for the good old American quarter horse.
Were the crosses done for international sporthorse competitions? I don’t belive that can be accurately stated. These crosses were done at a time in history where there simply was no international competition, nor any idea of such a concept. People took months to travel by ship or horse power, and the mobility made possible by the industrial revolution, which later resulted in the freedom of movement required by international sports competitions, simply could not be forseen.
And finally, probably the earliest truly “international” competitions (again, limited to basically royalty due to the expense involved with mobility in that era) were undertaken in the sport of horse racing, so the earliest ideal of an international “sporthorse” would have to be considered the Arab or Thoroughbred, not the warmblood.
Having said that, LordHelpUs is correct, and this entire argument is really such a trivial matter of semantics, and I believe a total waste of time. Can’t we all just agree that ALL horses, for thousands of years, have been specifically and selectively bred to improve the stock’s temperment and physical characteristics by crossing hot and cold blooded breeds?
This “warmblood war” is not an argument that can be settled here, or anywhere, simply by calling either side “ignorant”. There are valid arguments from varying sources to support both sides. Which side you support is merely a matter of opinion, and which references you find to be more appropriate.
Devildog, The Rugged Lark quarter horses are supposed to be pretty tall.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SuperPony:
Just to ask a question…
People keep referring to the ‘old’ type warmbloods/heavy work horses/etc that ‘today’s warmbloods’ are decended from. Back then (whenever ‘then’ was), what were the drafts called? Were ANY horses called drafts? Or were all heavy horses just called ‘work horses’ or something to that effect?
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Income. 
Me: “I’m going to get a Grand Prix horse and name it Funky Cold Medina.”
Friend: “In the name of God why?”
Me: “Because then our entrance music could be ‘Funky Cold Medina.’” 
Friend: sigh
Me: “It’s a GOOD song!”
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MistyBlue:
I’m just going to follow along and read this one. I’ve seen way too many heated debates on this. Just recently about PMU foals and mares.
Okay…never mind…I’ll throw out one flag:
Hot + cold = warm works with water…not blood. My only ‘issue’ with this (if it can even be called that) is when sellers add the “warmblood” or Warmblood" tag onto a horse to ask an increased price over what it’s actually worth.
D*mn Jeopardy and their interferring ways! 
Equine Crash Test Dummy
Member of: Non-GPA Clique
80’s Clique
Connecticut Clique
Helmet Nazi Clique
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You just managed to condense my heated ramblings into a paragraph. 
How in the hell did you manage that one, MistyBlue!? 
See, now I need to go find you a prize. But I only have Reeses and Minute Rice, so dinner at my place probably wont do.
Me: “I’m going to get a Grand Prix horse and name it Funky Cold Medina.”
Friend: “In the name of God why?”
Me: “Because then our entrance music could be ‘Funky Cold Medina.’”
Friend: sigh
Me: “It’s a GOOD song!”
So what are these?
http://www.americanasporthorse.com/ASRhome.htm
Hot, cold, luke, tepid???
Stupid people bug me
Is this a record for back from the dead??
A poster who hasn’t been active for 7 years digging up a thread that died 19 years ago?
“and the award goes to”
Indeed!!!
Blast from the way back machine. Always thought hitch had one of the best user names anywhere along with one something like Can’t remem….
bittersweet to roll to the way back and see names long missed 
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