Silly Jo! It’s in the first post. 
“What you get when you cross a hot blood with a cold blood.” The correct question (which no one got) was, “What is a warmblood?”
Okay and I realize that my answer sounded quite mickey mouse…I have heard that before and it’s probably the way horse people explain it to non-horse people without getting into registries and such. Or what x said.
I think I might back slowly out of this one.
Member of the Ocularly Challenged Equine Support Group
Nattie:
You said:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I think that technically, any horse from draft desent (sp??) is considered a warmblood. Because all horses that are usually considered “warmbloods” have drafts as their ancestors, and they have, over decades, evolved into “todays” warmblood/sport horse. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Then I said:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> No. None of the European Warmbloods descended from draft stock. You might want to do a bit of research indepthly. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Then you said:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Oh yes they did Celtic!! Haven’t you ever seen a picture of Werther?? Or any of the “old style” foundation Warmblood stallions in Germany?! They were origonally bred to war horses and plow horses. I did a hole research project on them last year… <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
How this justifies the Warmblood’s descent from draft horses mystifies me, so I said:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I have several horses from Wether’s line. He IS NOT a draft. Werther is slightly heavier type now considered the “old type” Warmblood, but he is not a draft of any sort.
European Warmbloods were never drafts; they were all around working horses and heavier a century ago, but they were not drafts. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Celtic- I didn’t say he IS a draft, I’m saying from a LONG LONG time ago, they were GERMAN drafts. For mares to get a premium status, they had to pull a certain weight for a certain distance, there was no riding or jumping involved.
Maybe YOU should talk to the people over on Sport Horse Breeding. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Followed by:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> DIDN’T SAY THEY RESEMBLE TODAYS DRAFT HORSES. I’m saying: They decended from an old form of European Draft horses. Over CENTURIES they have evolved into sporthorses through the addition of French Thoroughbred blood. I’ll even find it on the Hanoverian Verband Website… <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And I, and several others, are telling you that you are not correct.
Nowhere on the Hanoverian pages does it state that modern Hanoverians were brought about by crossing Thoroughbreds to DRAFTs as you state. As I, Medievalist, and Master Tally have said(and as all the other breeders on the SHB forum will); the modern Warmblood was brought about by crossing mainly Thoroughbreds and Arabians on the existing WORKING stock, which were not drafts. This all around working stock were not draft horses.
If you do not believe me, feel free to email any director of a Studbook to find out for yourself. I personally work with the KWPN and AES and would be more than happy to point you in the right direction.
If you would like to continue this discussion, please PT me as I am sure everyone else has heard this at least 64,000 times.
Susie
Well, if you want to be really accurate, of course they were all bred from the same stock, in that all horses are descendants of eohippus. 
The real question is what happened when man began interferring, when breeding records began to be kept, and when particular goals in breeding began to be sought after. How did the “breeds” come to be? Once you get past Prezswalski’s Horse, virtually every breed of horse came to be because man interferred. Man put together horses that he thought would produce another horse that would be better for doing whatever it was the man wanted the horse to do – Nature and evolution created horses and types of horses suited to particular environments, Man created breeds.
By the time Europeans began breeding the horses that became known as warmbloods, there were draft horse breeds, there were carriage horse breeds, and there were riding and racing breeds, and there were lots of horses that were crosses between them or no breed at all. The bottom line is that those European breeders did not use draft horse stock – Clydes, Percherons, etc. – in their organized breeding programs to try to achieve the horse that could pull a cart or caisson, gallop with a rider, stay sound doing it, and look good on Sunday, which was the original purpose of the warmblood horse. They used carriage breeds, non-draft heavier farm horses, TBs, and foreign exotics like Andalusians, Lusitanos, and Arabs.
Don’t forget that those draft horse breeders – meaning breeders of pure drafts like Clydesdales, Percherons, etc. – were and are just as proud of their horses and consider them every bit as valuable for their purpose as any other breeders of high quality horses. The family of a very kind retired partner in our firm used to breed Percherons, and he gave me an original pedigree from a mare his grandfather bred back in the early 1920’s – it’s at least a six generation pedigree, beautifully done with gorgeous gold lettering and embossing. You can see the pride these breeders had in their horses and the care they took in their breeding was every bit as great as that of any TB breeder or Hannoverian breeder. So to call any heavy farm horse a draft breed is somewhat insulting to them. 
So, is the European warmblood horse a cross between a “cold blood” draft breed and a “hot blood” light horse breed? No, it is not, historically or currently. You cannot cross a true draft horse (Percheron, Belgian Draft, Clydesdale, etc.) with a hot blood (TB, Arab, or Anglo-Arab) and get a Warmblood. You get a draft cross, which may well be a lovely horse, but it won’t be a warmblood.
Which doesn’t mean – as many warmblood breeders and enthusiasts happily admit – that the modern warmblood is anything other than a mutt – a really, really well-bred mutt.
[I]Who figures an immigrant's going to have a pony? ... Why would anybody come here if they had a pony? Who leaves a country packed with ponies to come to a non-pony country? It doesn't make sense... am I wrong?"[/I] Jerry Seinfeld [img]http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]
[This message was edited by Portia on Nov. 09, 2003 at 03:09 PM.]I’m sitting here on a Friday night watching Jeopardy (I have no life) and lo and behold they have a category on “Good Horsekeeping.” One “answer” was “What you get when you cross a hot blood with a cold blood.” The correct question (which no one got) was, “What is a warmblood?”
This has always confused me. Is it true? If you cross a Thoroughbred with a Percheron do you get a “warmblood?”
On doing a little research, I find that my Morgan is a WARMBLOOD, at least according to this:
I’m sure my friends with Hanoverians and Holsteiners would be a little skeptical!
“I am not afraid of storms, for I am learning to sail my ship.”
-Louisa May Alcott
The problem here is the definition of warmblood.
Today, we have two definitions; definition #1 is european warmblood such as Hanoverian, Holsteiner, etc. Definition #2 is a cross betweeen a hot-blood (i.e., TB or Arab) and a cold-blood (i.e., draft) The second definition was probably the first one, and it later developed to mean the first thing. Originally, the european warmbloods were a dual-purpose work-ride horse, and were developed way-back-when, as many other breeds were, by mixing hot and cold blooded horses. Hence, warmblood. However, today, they have developed into a set type of their own. Sort of like when we refer to the Thoroughbred horse (the breed) vs. someone who uses the term thoroughbred to mean purebred (of whatever). Warmblood can mean european warmblood or can mean a horse that is neither pure hotblood or pure coldblood. Perhaps european warmbloods should be spelled with a capital “w” and all others with a lower-case??
Isn’t this a temperment thing? Hotbloods ie TB’s are high spirited, “hot”, coldbloods ie draft horses are calmer and mix 'em up and get a warmblood? Medium temperment? lol
Member of the Ocularly Challenged Equine Support Group
A friend told me last night that she had met a woman in Florida who wanted to buy a bunch of PMU foals, and market them as Canadian Sport Horses, because, “Isn’t that what they are?” Sorry, honey, a pmu foal is NOT a Canadian Sporthorse.
less hard work, more fine dining.
www.dancinglawnhorses.com
If guys can do it, how hard can it be?
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SERAPH:
hitchinmygetalong–
I nominate YOU as the now well-informed person to approach Alex and tell him his writers’ are WRONG!
You could always threaten to sue him…I’m sure there is a way! LOL!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Who, me? 
I’m more confused than ever! 
“I am not afraid of storms, for I am learning to sail my ship.”
-Louisa May Alcott
4_beatin_it rolls over laughing at Kerby!@ 
Dragons is so stupid!
OH-KAY–
That, my friends, IS not a warmblood ( in the Euro-coined term sense). However, if the goal was to use the QH as native foundation stock in a breeding program to PRODUCE olympic caliber sporthorses (i.e. influxes of certain breeding stock mean’t to increase the possibility-- Euro Warmblood, Thoroughbred, et, et,), then it could be a participant in a warmblood breeding program.
<grabbing the bait>
"So what are these?
http://www.americanasporthorse.com/ASRhome.htm"
Saddlebred crosses.
Yours in sport,
Lynn
Founder of the Pinto Warmblood Clique
I don;t see why everyone cannot agree — it appears that German warmbloods were derived from heavy horses used in agriculture.
Whether they were (300 years ago) or are (now) called “Draft” horses is splitting hairs.
You all are getting into a dither over semantics. One person’s draft horse is another person’s heavy work horse.
THERE! Now you are both right. Don’t you all feel better???
“However, if the goal was to use the QH as native foundation stock in a breeding program to PRODUCE olympic caliber sporthorses (i.e. influxes of certain breeding stock mean’t to increase the possibility-- Euro Warmblood, Thoroughbred, et, et,), then it could be a participant in a warmblood breeding program.”
Seraph, by this logic, I could start a breeding program crossing zebras with TBs, and if I claimed I was breeding for Olympic disciplines, that would make me a warmblood breeder.
I don’t quite buy the idea that “Olympic” = “warmblood”.
I’m an alter, and I hate stupid people.
Seraph:
Equine Crash Test Dummy
Member of: Non-GPA Clique
80’s Clique
Connecticut Clique
Helmet Nazi Clique
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bigbay:
Of course, the only problem I see with Curious George’s proposed zorse registry is its ability to sustain itself, since the hybrids are sterile… 
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Details…mere details… I have faith that CG will overcome this small hurdle - if not with actual baby zorses (zorslets???), then will well spoken rhetoric.
Formerly mmclough
Wait, for those of us who were working during Jeop., what was the question???
[I] TODAY’S BLESSING: May the fleas of a thousand camels infest the crotch of the person who screws up your day and may their arms be too short to scratch. AMEN
[/I]
There is a Australian guy in France who has a zorse (Stormy the Zorse!) that does reining. I saw her ridden at the Salon du Cheval at Paris in 01 I guess? He even rode her bridleless. She does all the basic dressage movements too-shoulder in, half passes, leg yields. And she jumps little cavaletti and plays football Stormy does really well…but I think she is the exception to the rule when it comes to the zorse.
BUT, I think she could definitely work in CG’s olympic warmblood breeding program. You should look into that CG! Could be your next fancy european warmblood import!
I think I am actually getting somewhere on these applications…but then again I may be lying to myself.
Centre Equestre de la Houssaye
Curious George–
Since you’ve now followed me around (in one day!) and posted something directly negative to me or about me on almost every thread I’ve commented on or started, I’m beginning to think you have an unhealthy fixation with me.
Remember one thing; by insulting TASHR’s breeding vision, you’re insulting everyone who is a part of that registry. And some of those people are very well known FOR NOT being intellectually challenged.
And again, you obviously don’t know a thing about the European breeding programs. What’s more, you know even less about TASHR’s breeding program. Now please stop following me around!
CG,
Someone rode a zebra ? Please share …
Yours in sport,
Lynn
Founder of the Pinto Warmblood Clique
If I recall correctly, hot and cold blood has nothing to do with tempermant, but rather where the breed originated. Arabs are from the desert where it tends to be hot, etc.
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