This is certainly plausible, though I do not want to make those types of accusations. I don’t know jack about ML’s training program don’t want to automatically jump to the assumption that it’s through gadgets and negative reinforcement.
But my other reason for suspecting that it can’t just be “aggressive” dressage training is because while I’ve unfortunately known of many people who employ it, I haven’t known anyone to be so successful with it that they consistently find themselves at the top of the leaderboard. Usually with these types of riders, the tension comes through in the dressage test and negatively impacts scores. Or maybe she’s just “that good” at riding how she rides that she can employ such methods and still get the desired results.
As a spectator (online) the “cross country” phase looks like a combination of Hunter Derby and one of the the Gymkhana classes at my riding club when I was a kid, with an increase in height (but with corners, tables and fancier jump decorations).
I kinda wonder if RF Scandalous just isn’t as fit as the others and that’s why their dressage was so much better, along with maybe spending more time schooling dressage and SJ and less on conditioning and XC.
I think Michael Jung does quite well in dressage and I have seen him ride xc in a snaffle. His horses are adjustable and he has a good eye and partnership with the horse. ML’s cross-country was better than what I have seen in the past, but she rides like a show jumper, not with a the smooth adjustable relationship with the horse, relying on hardware instead.
I commandeered the big-screen to cast the XC replay, as my two non-horsey male roommates were busy looking at their phones. I got distracted and wasn’t paying attention to ML’s ride, but I looked up when they both gasped when she got to the mound. One of them asked “is she new at this?”. Heh.
It is really gross to say she rides like a showjumper, relying on hardware with no smooth adjustable relationship. Eventers would do well to have their horses half so adjustable as a top showjumper. Watch McLain’s winning jumpoff round this week, or Beezie ever, and tell me showjumpers rely on hardware for success and not smooth adjustability.
a showjumper couldn’t get away with 10x the misses I see regularly on XC. Including many others than ML who is a very good jumper rider. The terrain plays a huge part. The questions are very different. There is no brushing through and barely making over things standing in showjumping without penalty. But adjusting does often happen at much shorter distance because it has to.
i think what we see with ML is a very game, strong XC horse ridden to make the quick adjustments of a showjumper as close to the fence as she can. Doesn’t always work in the moment of competition, where tensions are way higher than schooling. You can tell from her post interview she felt it was not enough and she plans to do more prep events going forward as she was very disappointed in what happened on course and did not feel the mare was confident in the moment. With some good runs this year the mare could be Tokyo ready, but yesterday was not that.
i also have to applaud the candor of her win interview, which was far more about how badly the XC went than anything else. That is the mark of someone driven to excellence.
I do not know if it is related but some of her horses looked like they had inconsistent and spotty xc records in europe including her mount yesterday , when they were purchased and were “turned around” to perform at the level they are at by raylyn farm. I wonder if she had "spent "for the made cross country “machine”, if that would have changed her xc style. Sometimes i wonder if they are so cranked up, thus requiring for her to use extra bitting, to make sure they go without stopping or penalry.
I’m disappointed to see she’s back in eventing. I thought she was gone for good. Won’t be long before we’re seeing pics of black towels and bloody mouths if that XC was any indicator. Ironic her round was right after Buck who rides so smoothly.
Yes , that post was a pretty rash generalization about show jumpers. I think perhaps the writer meant that ML was riding it as she would a showjumping round, which is far from an ideal approach.
I don’t think that ML should be surprised that the mare was not “being confident in the moment”. That ride could not have helped a mare with confidence issues, however I can see where it could create them.
The bastardized cross country course needs to be taken into consideration. It can’t be ridden in the same manner as an actual cross country course if winning is the intent, nor can it be ridden as a showjumping course (unless you are willing to cowboy it, she did and she did win it after all.)
It was a sort of turn and burn course that was just…odd, though from what I’ve watched of ML’s regular cross country rounds she sometimes doesn’t ride an actual cross country round much differently. Despite winning I’m sure she can’t have been pleased with the optics of that ride.
Hopefully Tokyo will have a proper cross country course.
Is there a consistent availability of whole-test scoring for event shows? I don’t follow eventing rigorously, but one of the things I really appreciate with some of the streamed dressage shows is when they show score-by-movement. You can really identify consistencies with a rider/horse pair (or even a rider/multiple horses they show) and compare them to others that way.
I would be very curious to look at scores and see where it is that ML consistently outperforms her competition: is it that she does well in the high value movements, or is she just constantly .5-1pt higher than everyone else based on how she shows in the dressage court?
That might be a good place for the OP’s question to really get answered in the nitty-gritty.
From watching her tests… they’re quite accurately ridden. That’s not to say eventers can’t ride an accurate test - they really can - but it’s just like in ‘real’ dressage too, where if you have a geometrically accurate test, you’re at a competitive advantage over your peers that don’t.
I disagree with the poster that said they’re not good dressage tests, because to Marilyn’s credit, I think she can put in a phenomenal test and deserves the good scores she’s gotten. I also think posters like that maybe are barn-blind - because that cranking mouth, tense horse, “work of artifice” dressage is just as prevalent in UL dressage as it is in UL eventing.
Anyway, watching ML’s tests she’s very good at some of the more difficult movements - her shoulder-ins are accurate, her half-passes fluid and crossing, her simple changes clean and balanced, and the last few tests I saw of her, she had good rein backs too… If I am remembering correctly, which is possible I’m not, some of those movements had double coefficients (and so, are high value movements as you said) – which really make or break your score in a tightly competitive class.
I think a lot of people need to spend more time with a showjump trainer before you make so many judgements that are untrue.
My grand Prix level trainer rides all his horses in a snaffle, and he says you have to make all adjustments in the corner otherwise it’s too late and you mess up your distances.
unfortunately, not a fan at all, but she always does seem to do well, even with her hard hands and heavy metal. Sadly she always comes out on top, grossly it works for her.
@beowulf thank you for posting a link to ML’s test. I do think she deserved the score she received. The mare did look like she was listening and workmen like through the trot. At the canter you could tell the horse was enjoying her work including the stretch circle. If this test was done by any other UL rider I think we would be singing their praises.
I’m still not a fan of ML. She scares me on the cross country field and doesn’t represent the US eventing community over all well. But this dressage test was quite lovely.
Your “old school” quote really resonated with me because I agree.
From my own personal experience, I feel like ML’s style of XC riding was a lot more common place in long format days.
I don’t know if it’s the short format, the advent of social media/ubiquitous video coverage, or a combination of both, but eventing has become a lot “kinder” in my lifetime.
