Humor me. Just try a 1/4 turn on forehand each quarter. It’s just a gut hunch from the pic you posted. More rein slack will present itself with each turn.
[QUOTE=tbchick84;8837228]
Humor me. Just try a 1/4 turn on forehand each quarter. It’s just a gut hunch from the pic you posted. More rein slack will present itself with each turn.[/QUOTE]
I did this exercise this weekend. I found that yes, my reins were made slack by the horse raising his head - but in my opinion he was hollowing. And it would take a few steps to move off his hindquarters once we started walking again.
Hmmm…If the horse is hollowing is the 1/4 turn on the fore hand being executed properly?
Shouldn’t the horse lift it’s back in this exercise?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfUQSL89FHM
Here is a nice lesson on turn on the fore hand
OK - so I guess when I did it it was more of a [B]Pivot[B] instead of a turn - like his front legs weren’t moving.
BUt that’s how I taught it to him on the ground, so I’m not entirely sure how to change that aside from asking for more momentum so it would end up being more like a tiny haunches in circle…?
But I think thats why he hollowed - because I lost the impulsion
[QUOTE=Dressage_Strider;8842031]
OK - so I guess when I did it it was more of a [B]Pivot[B] instead of a turn - like his front legs weren’t moving.
BUt that’s how I taught it to him on the ground, so I’m not entirely sure how to change that aside from asking for more momentum so it would end up being more like a tiny haunches in circle…?
But I think thats why he hollowed - because I lost the impulsion[/QUOTE]
Just want to say, if you are teaching your horse to pivot, you are heading down a dangerous, slippery slope. That is very hard to “unteach”, and once you hit 2nd level and above, there are some very specific movements that require “tight turns” on the hind leg (turn on haunches, walk, and canter pirouettes).
I would never recommend “playing” with these kind of movements until you are working with a trainer - they are highly technical movements that can easily go wrong (such as the pivot).
OP, in dressage, one of the basic principles to remember - except in the halt, your horse’s legs should always be moving.
My mare preferred to pivot for TOF for the longest time. I think it was more comfortable.
I worked with a trainer to get her to keep her forelegs moving. We were looking for “one good step” with the front, and then stopping. It’s hard to feel, for me anyway, so I was happy to have the trainer’s help. Once we got the front end fixed, the hind end got better, too.
This is not to say that she never pivots – if I’m not careful about the setup, she will fall back to that. But a good rider can get a lovely walk pirouette from her, now. I’ve even managed it a few times, miracle of miracles.
OP, What abouttrying turn on the fore hand into leg yield?
Here is a video of a lesson, and they use cones which I think is a cool idea.
I still don’t knwo what the point of a troll is…
With that said, having read the reply that you are not a troll, but rather a newbie, I would suggest addressing this with your instructor. Really, reading about it will not teach you the correct feel. Having a good coach on the ground is the only way to correctly figure out the feel, timing, etc.[/QUOTE
Some of us simply do not have access to regular instructors. Personally I find after a lesson or clinic when I think about what I was told or try to reproduce it at home I have questions so I come to this board to try to get further explanations to help understand. Sometimes I need explanations of what the good coach is saying. 
For me reading the explanation, where I can reread, picture in my mind, act it out in my chair is often more useful than hearing it where I’m trying to listen, ride the horse, implement what I’m being told, relax, keep my heels down, don’t look down, change diagonal, relax, listen to new instructions, keep the tempo with my seat, relax, oh and smile riding is supposed to be fun…
[QUOTE=Dressage_Strider;8840749]
I did this exercise this weekend. I found that yes, my reins were made slack by the horse raising his head - but in my opinion he was hollowing. And it would take a few steps to move off his hindquarters once we started walking again.[/QUOTE]
I’m guessing he was hollowing because what you are asking him to do is hard! Raising the head to avoid contact/truly working over the back is a pretty common evasion. The trick is how to deal with that in a constructive fashion.
Dropping the contact because you are afraid of making him “hard in the mouth” is not the way to do that (been there, done that, have the souvenir T-shirt).
Focus on maintaining your rein length and outside hand position, whatever it may be, and ask for that TOF one step at a time. There might be fussing, there might be hollowing, but when your horse truly steps into the contact and moves his hindquarters over praise him to high heaven. Then send him forward BUT DON’T DROP YOUR OUTSIDE REIN. Keep a steady “handshake” (you should be able to feel a connection between his mouth and your outside shoulder blade - seriously), keep your elbows soft.
Keep in mind that “Turn on the Forehand” does not mean “Turn when leaning on the forehand” - its purpose is to get that inside hind leg stepping up and over.
[QUOTE=Dressage_Strider;8840749]
I did this exercise this weekend. I found that yes, my reins were made slack by the horse raising his head - but in my opinion he was hollowing. And it would take a few steps to move off his hindquarters once we started walking again.[/QUOTE]
If he hollowed, he was not doing the exercise correctly. The idea is acceptance of the outside rein which he was not doing.
I like the idea of the contact as a handshake - i’ve worked on this a little more - asking for him to push into a corner more - like the leg yield idea.
So question - I’ve had this horse since he was a yearling and I actually trained him in a police mount program where they had us do a ton of things from the ground first - and pivots were considered very important. So he definitely resorts to pivots when I give him leg aid - especially from a stand still. I’m imagining to retrain this I would focus on lateral more and possibly ask for a haunches in/shoulder in on a small circle? Or should I start over and just go back to the ground…
I don’t think I really understand it from this video - but I like the idea of doing a leg yield into a corner and then turning on the forehand out of the corner.
[QUOTE=tbchick84;8848409]
If he hollowed, he was not doing the exercise correctly. The idea is acceptance of the outside rein which he was not doing.[/QUOTE]
When I pivot I don’t use rein at all really - just leg/seat - but I’ve tried more impulsion and to get an actual turn on the forehand, and I’m not sure I understand how this results in outside rein acceptance - wouldn’t he have flexion to the inside?
[QUOTE=Dressage_Strider;8855278]
When I pivot I don’t use rein at all really - just leg/seat - but I’ve tried more impulsion and to get an actual turn on the forehand, and I’m not sure I understand how this results in outside rein acceptance - wouldn’t he have flexion to the inside?[/QUOTE]
“Outside” is defined by the outside of the bend - so if you move the haunches to the right, and have flexion to the left, your outside is the right rein.
[QUOTE=Dressage_Strider;8855278]
When I pivot I don’t use rein at all really - just leg/seat - but I’ve tried more impulsion and to get an actual turn on the forehand, and I’m not sure I understand how this results in outside rein acceptance - wouldn’t he have flexion to the inside?[/QUOTE]
Yes, there should be flexion to the inside. But flexion is not acceptance. Acceptance is staying steady in the contact and “on the bit”. Western pleasure horses have flexion, but they are not on the bit.
Here’s a paraphrase of some visualization advice I remember reading here (and I think it was attributed to Lendon Gray)
“when you are riding a circle, imagine that your reins are coated in paint. The outside of your horse’s neck should have paint marks all over it, and the inside hardly any at all.”
(I think I got that right, if not, I’m sure someone will correct me :winkgrin:)
[QUOTE=Sunsets;8855532]
Yes, there should be flexion to the inside. But flexion is not acceptance. Acceptance is staying steady in the contact and “on the bit”. [/QUOTE]
ah, thank you that makes a lot of sense.
