Trying to determine what the going rate is for stable hands that muck stalls only.
Do you pay per stall or per hour.
If so how much?
Subbing on the off chance I might someday find someone willing to get dirt under their fingernails ----
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When I worked at barns I was paid by the task. Paying by the hour really encourages people to take their time rather than work efficiently. IIRC I was paid $3.50/stall, which usually ended up being $14-17 an hour depending on how bad the stalls were and how many required re-bedding which took time to go get.
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Thank you for your reply!!! Agree if I pay my worker by the hour it will take them 8 hours to complete 8 stalls! When I could do them in under 2. Just trying to figure out a good starting place as we have never had
a worker as I did the stalls myself but now with new life changes that is no longer an option.
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Everyone I know, including myself, has always been paid per stall. I get paid $5/stall myself. It encourages efficiency, pay by the hour can tend to make people drag things out longer than necessary. It keeps people honest and focused.
I have had the same person for 3 years and come for 3 hours in the morning and I pay them 25 dollars an hour.
personaly I would rather get someone good and pay more, it is a job that has no benefits and is physical labor, a lot to ask when they are not your horses.
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Every barn job I have ever had (I’ve worked in breeding, basic boarding/show barns, and Grand Prix barns) has always been a day rate. We got “x” per day, with approximate hours (ie come in for 7, hopefully you leave at 4 but no promises if the vet/farrier is coming, mare goes into labour, etc). Never have I been paid by the task. However, I was always hired for more than just stall mucking–I was doing general upkeep of the barn, grooming, turnout/turn in, blanketing, sometimes riding as well. I worked full days. If you were hiring someone just to muck, then yes, it makes more sense to pay by the stall.
I’m not sure how you think paying by the hour would make someone less efficient than by task. If I were to hire someone, I would say, you need to get “x” tasks done, and I will pay you for four hours because that is how long it should take you. If the worker is consistently unable to get the tasks done in that timeframe, you have to either reevaluate your expectations or consider hiring someone else. Paying by the hour doesn’t mean you pay them for however long they feel like taking. You set their hours of work.
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I pay by the hour. The rate is really determined by the going rate in your region. If someone is a slugabug - they’re gone. Likewise, if they don’t do a good job - they’re gone. You do need to take the time to teach them your standards. Can’t tell you how many college kids I’ve had to teach: water runs downhill; do not walk a horse through the feed room even though that’s the shorter route; it takes 30 seconds to close a gate and an hour to catch a horse; no earphones playing music while you’re in with a horse; no cell phones; you have to dig down to get the muck; do not start at the bottom and work up when sweeping stairs; do not leave blankets or lead lines hanging within a horse’s reach; the list goes on. Those that learn get to stay. I’ll also adjust hours for school and other personal schedules.
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Just because you can do them in under two hours doesn’t mean that someone else can or will. If you can find someone, pay well, it’s hard to find barn help especially for just a few hours a day.
In my area, the going rate to clean stalls turn out is 15.00-20.00 an hour and it’s impossible to find anyone who wants to do the job.
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So the worker makes less per hour because the stalls happen to be worse on certain days and/or need rebedding, through no fault of their own?
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$5 a stall
$10 / hour for barn shifts (AM - feeding grain, turning horses out, haying and watering outside, cleaning stalls, sweeping, dumping and filling buckets in stalls, putting hay in stalls PM - bring in horses, sweeping, graining, checking/filling water inside and outside, adding hay before leaving).
Those shifts are exhausting in the winter temps we’ve been having!
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Most recently I was paid $120 (after taxes) for days that ran minimum 730-430 in an area that has $14.50, with a 30 minute lunch. My rate was a flat rate, I did not get paid extra for horse show days that went long, although the clients would often tip on those days. Even with the extra long days averaged in, I was making above minimum wage (when you figure in taxes) per hour even before tips.
Stalls, turnout, grooming, general cleaning, etc for a full service barn. I did not braid and I did not ride.
Maybe it varies by location, but I’ve never seen anyone pay by the stall-- typically pay starts at $10/ hour and goes up from there. A few times I’ve seen something along the lines of $25 for a shift that typically takes 2 hours but even then there is usually bonus pay if the horses can’t be turned out or something. I would think paying by the stall/ task might discourage people from doing more than the bare minimum, especially when the weather is bad.
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What are the labour laws in your area? We don’t have staff, but I give boarders a $15 an hour credit on board per hour if they help out. ($15 is minimum wage) Technically I cannot ask a person to come in to work for less than 3 hours, unless mutually agreed, so if I hired outside staff, I would have to pay at least $45.00 per shift even if they only worked 2 hours.
I do not expect staff to work as quickly/efficiently as I do, so I would set a reasonable time frame, and if they go over, they have to legitimize it.
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This is one of those business questions that can and does vary area.region and type of operation. As with any business market forces dictate everything. What a business can charge for their services dictates what they can pay their employees.
Mucking stalls is a bit of an art, acquired skill to do well, efficiently and timely. It is also the most basic and easily learned barn skills. I prefer people who have decent basic horse skills. Comfortable moving a stalled horse to a empty swing stall while their’s is being cleaned. Even better a person that is comfortable and knows what they are doing mucking with a horse in it.
Mucking out stalls bedded on shavings is done differently then bedded on straw. I have hired “pony clubbers” that know how to much for the most part. But take forever. I have to explain to them and someone who has never done it before. There is a fine line between throwing out too much bedding and not enough. I bed on straw, if they have to use 1/2 bale more than needed per day, X 365 @ $2. That is $730 per year per stall being thrown on the muck pile. X 35 stalls $18,250. That is a sizable chunk of change for a business that operates on slim profit margins as it is.
So, like any decent business owner I train,manage, watch, work with my new hires very closely. I also explain the math.I cut slack in the beginning depending on experience but I tell them I know how long it should take. I have walked the walk, and I am also the person who is writing the check. Once up to speed it should take around 15 minutes to muck, bed, hay and water. I am not a slave driver, after x stalls are done I don’t have a problem with people take short breaks. I do NOT allow BS phone checks. I explain this also from the get go. Carrying their phone is a privilege during working hours is a privilege not a right. If they want to check FB on their short breaks fine. I do not allow phone conversations when ever it rings. If the privilege is abused they will be required to leave their phone in the car or tack room. I cut a lot of slack on this with established really good employees. Those types do a great job and don’t take advantage of the privilege.
Full time employees started at $8-9 and hour depending on experience/skills they say they have when hired. I will know their skill level in the first couple of days. When they are up to speed and know the drill with little to no involvement on my part the get raised to $10-$12 quickly. If they turn out to be pro at first asking they will be pleasantly surprised when I hand them their first check and tell them they got a raise starting day one.
I explain to new hires, it is in their best interest to keep me happy and it is in my best interest to keep them happy. By paying them the maximum my business, market forces allows. No business owner wants a lot of turn over, its a PITA. I can tell a slacker or somebody that is just going through the motions and or doesn’t have the skill level needed with in the first couple of days. I pretty much know they won’t last long. I don’t like firing people, they just won’t get a raise and I hope they quite. I’ll do double duty until they are replaced.
For just stalls I liked pay contract labor. I have used those who provide this service, $5 per stall. They did a great job, fast and well done, on to the next farm. There are a lot in my area. They could whip out a stall in 10 minutes or less depending on the horse.
All my comments are based on operating a horse business, my only business, source of income. They may or may not apply to other types of operations. Those who run a hobby farm and have a “real job” have different priorities. If they only have a few stalls, feed, turn out, couple hours of work etc. Pay TOP dollar $12-$15++ depending on skill level needed. It’s worth peace of mind, reliability and having, valuing your free time.
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Barn I worked for paid both by the task (for boarders working off board) and by real money (for the BM, with set hours). Paid by the task was: each task was performed by the BO to determine how long it should take. Then the pay was determined based on minimum wage/time job takes. We had time cards that we wrote in ‘code’ which task we performed, how many times, and there were codes for re-bedding, initial bedding, stripping, turning in/out, blanketing, you name it.
So if minimum wage was $10/hr and you should be able to do 4 stalls per hour, that’s $2.50/stall. No matter how long it takes you.
It worked well and was fair to those who worked slow as well as those who worked quickly.
In my area the starting rate is $15/hour. Some places do pay a $4/stall rate, others will pay a flat fee. For example at the last barn I worked, mucking, bedding and sweeping could be done in 3 hours by a reasonably competent person so the barn paid a flat rate of $45 per morning, regardless of whether you took 2 hours or 4 hours to complete the tasks. Most pay cash under the table or take it directly off board / training fees. There are barns who have stable help on regular payroll, but they are the exception, not the norm.
I used to get paid $2/stall and then $10/hour (for days when I did chores such as turnout, feeding, water, etc.). Her rationale was that, done properly efficiently, that per stall rate would average out to $10/hr. I didn’t object to the $10/hr, but I suspect that her per stall rate has something to do with her turnover rate. Muck heap impossibly far from the barn, which was okay if the spreader was working…until
the year came when we told her (repeatedly) that it was unpredictable at best and we never knew if it was going to work until we got it out there, fully loaded, after an hour of work already. Frequently we’d have to dump it out by hand with a shovel. Seemed like it was never a true priority for her which was highly irritating, and the extra time added to the routine made the hourly pay more like $7-8/hour, which was super disheartening—spending a morning troubleshooting someone else’s equipment to the detriment of your own pay, often in obnoxious weather conditions. She had a backup spreader, but it was always broken too.
Sorry for the novel. I’m having flashbacks :no:
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It’s tricky. Because decent workers usually have some other job they need to work around.
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If cleaning 8 stalls is all you need done than you have 2 options.
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Pay by the # of stalls. Set a fair price you can afford to pay.
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Set an hourly wage and determine the amount of time it should take an average person to clean the stalls. I say this because some people are very slow and very detailed and can drag it out way longer than it needs to be.
I have been barn help on a number of occasions over the years and think for your needs a set price for the work needed per day is easiest.
If stalls need stripping or something above the norm than just compensate the pay for those times.
