How much is your endurance horse worth...now?

Yes I’m, bored!

Officially endurance has been recognized at the fasted growing equestrian sport - so I find myself wondering how the cost of those horses has moved along in comparison.
Looking back over horses I’ve sold (keep in mind I generally sell prospects) I’ve been trying to see a trend- so far …not seeing it.

So far - the upwards range that mine go for -I feel has less to do with the growing popularity - more so that many of my buyers are oft times repeat buyers, so they are prepared to pay more for poopsies full/half brother etc etc, because they’ve had success with the 1st one they purchased.

-which yes I know is every breeders dream - I’m not complaining!-

compared to other disciplines though - we all have to admit the endurance horse price on average is a far cry from exceedingly jaw dropping. So I’m wondering how others out there are faring?

The sad thing is there’s just so many free horses out there right now, and not just starved, neglected or crazy ones, some of them are LOVELY, and since the average endurance rider is also usually a fairly accomplished rider/trainer/horseman, it keeps the market price pretty low. You can get a nice endurance horse with a record of a season or so for well less than $5000 usually, more in the $2500-3500 range. I sell far more horses to middle aged to senior riders for trail riding than I do to endurance riders, they will pay the price for the horse they want.

In general endurance riders are not willing to pay much $$ for their horses – certainly not compared to dressage riders, hunter/jumper…or even eventers.

I saw one advertised for $10K, but this was a horse ridden/trained by a top FEI rider and who was doing very well and in his prime. Of course, I have no idea if the seller got that amount or not.

I usually sell mine as weanlings, but as an example: I sold the last weanling by my Teke stallion o/o a Belesmo mare (who herself was sired by a multiple Jim Jones winner) for $3500 at 5 months of age. I sold my last warmblood foal at 4 months of age for $10K.

Two years ago I was buying unstarted mares from the Belesemo program (aged 2-4 yrs) for $1500-2500. Now I am selling those same mares for 25-35% less than what I paid for them…and glad to get it!

Endurance riders are cheap… and lots of them are proud of it… I’m generalizing here, of course, but compared to all other FEI disciplines people don’t spend nearly the money on training, tack, or the competitive horse itself.

It really surprised me when I crossed over. The reason I never pursued dressage seriously was lack of funds. I knew I would never be able to buy a really good horse to get us up the levels and pay for the many lessons that go along with that. But I’m competitive so discovering Endurance was just what I needed. However, that never meant I would be cutting corners, especially having ridden other people’s horses first and having learned from that… My motto in life is to buy the best I can afford, or not buy it at all, whatever “it” may be. Because if you buy cheap, you buy twice or thrice… 'cause it doesn’t last.

I didn’t want to take a chance on my first endurance horse and spent more than many endurance riders (7K) but a lot less than riders in any other discipline. I paid for very good old bloodlines, a near perfect conformation, all-around training (reining, cutting, dressage, trail), excellent ground manners, trained and owned by the same person all her life (11 years) and on 24/7 turnout. While my mare had no previous LD/endurance record (good!) and I couldn’t be sure things would work out, I knew we had a very good chance, especially when the vet who did the PPE sang her praises. After the proper conditioning for six months, I pretty much immediately had a consistent Top Ten horse in our first competition season in Region West where rides are large. Of course that’s not what everybody needs but it sure is nice to do well and have a beautiful and athletic horse to boot :wink:

Some people I ride with say I got lucky, but I believe I got what I paid for.

oh I 'll agree you most likely got what you paid for Lieselotte, and that’s a prefect example of willingly stepping into a made horse and doing well - which so few endurance riders seem to wish to do.

And yes I agree, there is a major component of riders who prefer to purchase meat truck price horses, I’ll admit one of my all time favorite horses I own myself was a 600$ buy.

I am thinking it also has a bit to do with location maybe? I have a friend who owns a small breeding operation in NZ - her horses do seem to get a higher price overall than mine when we compare, and her horses are comparable- but the buying market is slightly different, as endurance market there appears to have a much heavier middle east interest than our PNW market does.

Most of mine I sell age wise are weanlings through to 3 year olds. Although when I do sell an older horse, with a endurance record I can of course demand a higher price and will get it (sometimes) - but even so the price never truly reflects that particular horses talents as much as it should when you hold up a horse in another discipline with equal level of competition and look at the price there.

A year ago we had a very nice endurance horse for sale. We had put 1 1/2 years of steady trail miles on him but no competition. I only had one interested person. I was hoping to get between 1000 and 1500 for him.
When his sale did not go through my daughter started this horse in competition mid season and is now the top Junior in the Midwest and in AHDRA.
The sport may be growing but I have never seen a decent market for endurance horses.

Most endurance riders pay more for their saddles than they did for their horses, I know in my case that is true!

[QUOTE=jlrcoats;5347171]
Most endurance riders pay more for their saddles than they did for their horses, I know in my case that is true![/QUOTE]

So let’s discuss why this is the case… I don’t think any Eventers or dressage riders, or most serious Western riders that compete buy their horses as cheaply as Endurance riders do.

Is it the challenge to prove that even a (very) inexpensive horse can compete more or less successfully?
Is it that Endurance riders as a group, generally speaking, are “cheap?”
Is it that Arabians (or Arab crosses) are bred in too great a number and are too easily available?
Or is it something else entirely?

I have really mixed feelings about this. On one hand I like that it’s a sport that’s easily accessible where you won’t need a horse that costs at least five figures. I like that there are rules but not too many, that there’s no dress code and that the sport unites riders and horses of different levels with different goals under one roof.

On the other hand, I dislike that some people don’t take equitation seriously, know too little about conformation and equine health and nutrition and ride horses that are unsuitable until they’re lame, or don’t condition properly to begin with – all things you can get away with when it’s easy to retire a horse and simply get a new one the next season because it’s so cheap.

I like looking through the AERC ride records to see who is competing multiple horses a season and to see how long each one lasts, or if it goes on to another rider, or if they never show up again. Very informative and eye-opening. Not every horse can become a “decade horse,” of course, but if one does well for a season and then it’s simply “gone” from the records, I often wonder why. That’s just very very different in other equestrian disciplines where people don’t burn through horses that quickly.

So let’s discuss why this is the case… I don’t think any Eventers or dressage riders, or most serious Western riders that compete buy their horses as cheaply as Endurance riders do.

Is it the challenge to prove that even a (very) inexpensive horse can compete more or less successfully?
Is it that Endurance riders as a group, generally speaking, are “cheap?”
Is it that Arabians (or Arab crosses) are bred in too great a number and are too easily available?
Or is it something else entirely?
The answers are (in order):

  1. No. Endurance riders are NOT cheap. Have you seen some of the rigs and trailers currently pulling into the various ridecamps? Big and EXPENSIVE. Lots of tack, lots of different saddles, etc. What we don’t have to sink into daily shows and weekly lessons, we put into tack and hauling equipment. By far, almost every endurance rider I ever met in over a decade in this sport has been a long time accomplished rider, many still doing “lesson type” sports in the off season.

  2. Yes, sorta. It depends upon how serious one is about competing, and how far up the scale one wants to place. Many people get into this sport with what they have in the barn. If that horse works, then great. If they want to move up, then they start shopping. A good top ten horse, proven 100 mile or FEI caliber horse, can sell for the middle 5 figures. Even a good 50-100 mile horse can go for the middle 4 figures. But…the market is oversaturated with Arabian horses, and it is easy to find the “not good enough for halter or show ring or racetrack” Arabs for minimal $$, or for free. Since endurance presents an extremely tiny, farflung venue compared to show ring shows, etc that are held everyday, often just a mile or so from each other, the payback on an endurance horse, compared to a show ring horse, is very slow.

  3. It is a sport that takes a great deal of effort on the rider to condition, and a lot of saddle time with the horse to get it where one feels comfortable it will succeed. There are far fewer opportunities to “test” a horse - you either do LD, 50, 75, or 100. No novice division, no “green horse” division. No middle grounds. The terrain and locale can undo one horse that would be successful elsewhere. There is nothing “similar” about each ride - unlike a show ring, the terrain is whatever nature throws at you.

So the inconsistency/variance of the footing/terrain are what give the endurance rider pause to spend huge money on a horse unless they have their sights set on FEI or winning at big top ten rides.

Lieselotte - you can’t rely upon the records to tell you what happened to any horse that has AERC miles. I know some that never made it (cronic tieing up, cronic ulcers, issues that show up only after 30 miles, etc) and some suffered pasture accidents - almost anything could rule a horse out as an endurance competitor beyond the simple lameness tag. I personally knew 5 well bred, “endurance bred” Arabian horses that had - or developed later - some metabolic issue that tossed them out of the game. They went on to live less stressful lives and other careers with their owners, still much loved.

It takes a lot of time and effort on the part of a rider to get the horse up to endurance speed - that alone negates the “crash and burn” mentality you are implying as the reason horses tend to disappear quickly from the records. There are FAR more dressage, eventing, and hunter/jumpers that are used up like tissue - here today, gone tomorrow. Riders can work 7 “other discipline” horses in one day, every day to select the ones that will work out. An endurance rider can work maybe 2? Or 3? And not everyday. Maybe once a week.

There is far more than meets the eye when looking at a short, or a long record. Much more than can be extrapolated as “made it” or “didn’t make it and thrown away”.

Thanks, I’m glad you weighed in, gothedistance. I didn’t mean to oversimplify the issue, especially re. AERC records and reasons for horses “dropping out,” but I do know both the more professional type endurance rider you describe, but also the “others” who by no means spend good money on their tack (but quite possibly on a super nice trailer) and who wouldn’t be caught dead taking a much needed dressage lesson.

I’m lucky that there are many well-known and truly long-time riders here in Region West. Those I learn from and listen to. They can buy all the cheap horses they want, IMO, because they DO know what they’re looking at, what it takes to get somewhere with a horse and so on. It’s the people who take the short cuts, who don’t learn and don’t want to (even though they are also not new to the sport) and who are truly “cheap” that I’m talking about. And the ones who just won’t give up on a clearly unsuitable horse that’s miserable and stressed and hates his job… You don’t know any of those types?

So the inconsistency/variance of the footing/terrain are what give the endurance rider pause to spend huge money on a horse unless they have their sights set on FEI or winning at big top ten rides.

I’m not talking about huge money… I’m talking $500 vs. $5,000. Yes, it makes a lot of sense not to want to invest too much when the outcome is unclear and it takes longer to find out whether a horse is suitable or not than in the show ring. However, my argument will always be that if you pay a bit more to begin with, and buy a well-bred and well-trained horse (in any discipline,) and ride balanced and know how to condition and feed properly, you will have a much better chance at succeeding right from the start. And that’s kind of my point in this whole “exercise” about buying cheap endurance horses. Why shortchange yourself? Why not set yourself and your horse up for success?
In the end, I think, it’s more about the market forces like you mentioned - there are simply too few (serious) Endurance riders and too many horses.

In any case, I’m babbling and you’re right, goesthedistance, there are too many factors depending on each individual to make blanket statements.

Perhaps it would be better to look at the economies of the various horse sports to find out why some are more popular and command a higher price for their mounts. What we’d find is…most of the top horse sports (under both English and Western tack) are fueled by huge $$$$$ inflo/outflow. Cash prizes, cash awards, high dollar awards, sponsorships, money, money, money.

That is what drives the popular horse sports, and the attending sales of their horses. Where prize monies are linked to rides, the prices of horses goes up, as does the popularity of the sport.

Endurance around the globe misses out on all that cash flow…except in the Middle East. In the US the AERC has very strict rules regarding cash prizes and awards, and many of the big rides haven’t advanced beyond the silver belt buckle stage. Most of the small rides won’t ever advance past the t-shirt award stage.

This simple homespun mindset tends to discourage big money from making any type of major inroad towards developing high dollar endurance horses, horse sales, and the attending livery that goes along with the “big name rider/trainer/breeder” market.

However, one has only to dip a toe in the super high dollar Hunter/Jumper market to realize that not every horse showing is a 6 figure horse. Many riders/trainers still look at the super cheap (often freebee) Thoroughbred market for failed racehorses that might have the talent to become spectacular, high dollar winners. They also look for failed dressage horses, or horses burned out of other disciplines, to see if they can find that diamond in the rough.

Dressage does the same - they scout out the failed hunter/jumpers, the odd-sized horses that are low cost because they aren’t “top of the line” in height, the not-quite-winning comformation horses, the back barns of the racetrack. Dressage people here are also famous here in going to Europe and getting suckered into buying the rejects over there for less than the super bucks, then spending years and years trying to develop those hard-headed cases into something worthwhile.

Looking for a “cheap” horse isn’t limited to Endurance by a country mile. Rags to Riches is a common theme in almost every discipline.

That said, recent rule changes in Endurance seem to be shifting away from the “any horse in your barn can win at the sport” towards the “you WILL need an Arabian if you want to top ten or better”. Will that open a bigger market for endurance bred horses? <shrug> I doubt it. I think Endurance competitors who are serious in racing are already looking hard to find the genetic “freaks” that have super low heart rates and super fast recoveries. Breeding for that isn’t easy, and there still is very little money in the venture. Arabian racing, show, and halter are the top cash cows - so the majority of breeders are going to stick with that program. Endurance will remain on the outside picking up the rejects.

Cheap horse or not, I would also argue that there are MANY serious Endurance riders, probably far more serious than other disciplines, simply because we HAVE to spend more time with our horses, practicing and training to develop a style of riding that can be comfortable on the natural trail over miles of shifting terrain. I would NEVER want to ride in a dressage seat, or a hunter/jumper seat, or a stock seat for 50 miles! Yes, each of those riding styles brings something to the table for a rider interested in those disciplines (I was deeply involved in the first two for many years) - but these styles were developed for the show ring and jumping fences and cutting cattle. They are too rigid to translate into riding long distances. A rider needs decent balance, yes, but they also have to find what seat/leg position works best for themselves, and their horses, when it comes to traveling 50 to 100 miles in one day.

Unfortunately, because the sport hasn’t anywhere near the numbers competing compared to other equestrian sports, the knowledge of conditioning and feeding an endurance horse, as opposed to a hunter/ eventer/racehorse, can often be hard to find, or only accomplished by trial and error. Even the vast majority of vets know squat about Endurance, and what makes an Endurance horse tick, or even what makes the sport tick. Yes, I agree that if you ride balanced and know how to condition and feed properly, you will have a much better chance at succeeding right from the start. It is just more difficult in this sport to find the right program, and what works for someone else’s horse might not work for yours.

By default, our sport has to be more trial and error. We have to find our way for each separate horse, because that trail out there is the only reliable teacher to show you if your choices are good and successful, or bad and defeating.

Regarding those who “just won’t give up on a clearly unsuitable horse that’s miserable and stressed and hates his job” - yes, I’ve seen this happen, but very few and far between. One or two were good friends, experience endurance riders trying to work with a new partner that just wasn’t going to cut it for one reason or another. Eventually - sometimes sadly because they really loved the horse - they finally give up and find a more suitable partner. I knew one that shed tears for months afterwards because her beloved endurance-bred Arabian that she purchased expressly to do the sport…couldn’t. You can push a horse 25 miles… but not 50, and certainly not 100 if they just don’t want, or can’t, do the work. When it ceases to be fun for either party, the endurance trail is a wonderful “leveler” that tends to hurry the decision along to either drop back a level, or change partners.

There is a lot to this sport that just can’t be translated to the other horse sports that take place in a confined area, or in a confined space. And to that I can honestly say “viva la difference”. :slight_smile:

Great post, gothedistance, thank you!

I don’t know… I just sold a 7yr old gelding for $6500… not a huge price by any means but more than most endurance riders I know are willing to pay for a new horse…

This gelding had been started and had completed two 50 mile rides. I did extensive dressage with him at a dressage barn with a German instructor. The horse was large and correct, only I just wasn’t able to bond with him.

Despite having that amount of money, I have been shopping for a bargain. I guess that DOES make me cheap!! I have started enough horses in the sport to know that some just won’t cut it. At the same time, I don’t want to purchase a horse already started in the sport by someone else. There are so many variables in what makes a good distance horse- do they camp well? Are their metabolics superior? Do they like going 50 or 100 miles at a time? Can they stay sound through the miles? Given the fact I don’t want a horse who has already answered these questions (I love nothing more than putting a first 50 on a horse) I am much less likely to throw down a large amount of money on chance.

That said, I will not budge on conformation, breeding or personality. Therefore, I will spend a considerable amount on “potential,” where many people wouldn’t put more than $1500-$2500 on a prospect. I am willing to risk much more because I am banking on the fact I can make my “prospect” worth a lot more than most that are currently marketed, and hope it turns into a worthwhile partner for myself.

Don’t really know where I am going with this LOL but, hey, it’s late, and I’m tired :winkgrin:

Good comments, gothedistance.

I agree with your comments about conditioning and nutrition, there’s a lot of ignorance about.

I am surprised at the number of people who want to try the sport, who have unsound horses. “He’s no good for show jumping now, and I’ve always thought he’d be good at endurance . . . .”

And they seem surprised when I tell them not to bother, they’d never get through the pre-ride vet check!

Great thread! I see the DJB horses advertised in the $5,000-$20,000 range frequently. Endurance.net has them pop up from time to time, as does her website, if a person were looking for a made horse or a well started prospect.

Arabians are a dime a dozen in this country but really good, known endurance blood lines from well known breeders tend to be pricier.

I think one reason endurance horses don’t go for jaw dropping prices is that any horse - regardless of looks, size, conformation, or breeding - can be a good or even a great endurance mount. They just need to be able to do the miles and stay sound, fit, and get through the checks without metabolic or lameness issues. And an endurance horse can be a winner, a placer, or a finisher with an emphasis on Top 10s, Wins, or lifetime miles regardless of placings or points. So there is a huge range of what is acceptable and what “wins” in the eyes of endurance riders. For me, a “winner” isn’t necessarily who gets across the finish first, but the horse that can be consistent and come back year after year and endure the miles.

The world of dressage or hunters or racing, etc… is much different. There is a much narrower window of what is considered a “winner” or what is even considered suitable. Sure there are dressage riders who might compete their upside down rhinosorous and bring home 48% at T1 for 15 years, but the average dressage rider isn’t going to do that because you’re not accumulating lifetime points or awards of any kind. In endurance, even the slowest horse on the trail still racks up mileage and can be eligible for mileage and partnership awards. So it’s not like you’re out there finishing dead last year after year for nothing.

Your OP asked “How much is your endurance horse worth now?” I don’t know. A horse is worth what a buyer is willing to pay. If I were to work hard enough and long enough, I’m sure I could find a buyer who would pay $20,000 for my horse. But it might take a long time and a lot of advertising fees and probably a professional video and photos and maybe a trainer to present her to prospective buyers, but I’m sure it would be do-able. You could do that for just about any sound, young athletic horse, especially if they have color. It might take you a year to find that buyer but I bet you could. I know a woman who has bought several $20,000 horses based strictly on breeding. They were broodmares! Not for riding at all.

On the other hand if I had to unload her tomorrow because I was in some desperate situation, I could see quickly and easily getting about $5,000 for her. If I were to make one phone call, she could be gone tomorrow for that price to an endurance rider I know. He would love to get his hands on her.

Right now I trim probably a dozen casual pleasure trail horses that I personally know were bought in excess of $4,000, some of them have some pretty significant training and personality issues or problems, some of them have barely any riding experience at all. One of my friends just paid close to $5,000 for a barely started 4 year old with no miles, no experience. But he was the right breed, color and personality and she was sold the minute she saw him.

And I disagree with the comment that endurance riders are cheap. That could not be farther from the truth!! $60,000 rigs, $2,000 saddles, GPS, heart monitors, 10 ride weekends per season, often traveling thousands of miles (think driving to Tevis or O.D.) Just your stand plain ole Bob Marshall or Tucker endurance saddle can be around $1,200 or so if bought new. Compared to high end dressage or jumper people, no they can’t compare, but I sure wouldn’t call it cheap either.

not endurance but competitive trail is were the high dollar horses are used as often the competitive trail is used as a diversion training.

We have ridden against one lady who had her $250,000 Paso Fino out in the wilderness… it was not uncommon to see people on horses that were champions in other disciplines out learning something new.

I’d argue that conformation is more of a factor than you seem to think.

If I were to work hard enough and long enough, I’m sure I could find a buyer who would pay $20,000 for my horse.

I want some of what you’re smoking.

holy cow the transformation from 5K now (half way reasonable, she is a pretty mare, though weak in the back end) to 20K with a lotta work…good heavens. That is some serious pipe dreamin and I wanna know what kinda work.Teach her to sing? Tap dance? Do windows? Serious. Snow madness, maybe?

20 THOUSAND dollars for a mare of so so breeding and no particular record behind her? In what, Pesos? 20,000 Pesos? That makes more sense. No habla espanol, Sweets?

I don’t have a horse I pretend is an endurance horse (cough cough CTR and LD cough COUGH) but as much as I loves me some Chippy, he’s a 5K horse, max, all day long. No matter how much work I pour into him. The market is NOT there.

I am just dying to know what market will pay 20K…for that mare.

DJB is very well known in endurance and rides the you-know-what out of her horses. So I could see an ambitious person who wants to jump right into endurance and WIN 50s and 100s, or get into FEI right off the bat buying from her, but I agree that overall most people dont want to spend that much on an endurance horse. Especially if they have no record or just an average record.

I’m surprised that you could get $5k for Sweets easily and I definitely cant see $20k, ever. Not saying it to be mean, because i feel the same about my horses-nice looking Arabs with nice pedigree, nice conformation, sound, 1000+ endurance miles, but Arabs are just super cheap in my area.

You’re joking, aren’t you? To say that conformation and even size make no difference in an endurance horse is ludicrous. A horse with balanced conformation makes “just (just!) being able to do the miles and stay sound,” etc much easier than with a horse that’s short-hipped, cow-hocked, bench-kneed, rump high, whatever. Temperament is pretty important, too. I’d think that you, of all people, would recognize that.

As far as doing T1 for years, well … dressage is a journey, too. I’ve never placed at a recognized show so far, although I’ve only been doing it for ~3 years. But I’m in it to learn how to ride better, not get awards or points.

And I disagree with the comment that endurance riders are cheap. That could not be farther from the truth!! $60,000 rigs, $2,000 saddles, GPS, heart monitors, 10 ride weekends per season, often traveling thousands of miles (think driving to Tevis or O.D.) Just your stand plain ole Bob Marshall or Tucker endurance saddle can be around $1,200 or so if bought new. Compared to high end dressage or jumper people, no they can’t compare, but I sure wouldn’t call it cheap either.

In my experience, endurance riders don’t want to shell out much for their horses. I’ve heard more than one breeder complain about that.