How much is your endurance horse worth...now?

Ok, so obviously I was not clear on my comment about conformation :wink: I did not say nor imply that conformation does not matter. I did however say that a horse of any conformation “can” be successful. I’ve seen some really really scary looking horses out there competing SUCCESSFULLY. Would I go out and purposely track one down with terrible conformation? Of course not. Conformation IS important, but some horses just overcome the odds.

And yes, I could trade Sweets for 5K tomorrow with 1 phone call. The point is, EVERY horse is worth a fortune to SOMEONE. He’s ridden her, and he’s ridden with her and he thinks she is going to be a top 100 mile horse. (probably not since I don’t have a desire to be that competitive.) And FWIW, I had her sold as an unstarted youngster for $3,000 but backed out of the deal at the last minute. For a brief moment in time I wondered what the hell I was going to do with an Arab and thought I should find a nice young warmblood instead. But the point is that whoever thinks the horse is worth the $$$ is going to pay it. As I said, I trim some plain old trail horses that really are nothing special who brought big bucks because they happened to be the right breed, color and personality. ANY sound working horse can bring 20K to the right buyer. They just have to want it bad enough and the horse has to be marketed the right way.

DJB used to put prices up on her site but she doesn’t anymore. She has had many horses listed in the $15-20,000 range that had only completed a couple of 50s and some LDs. And she’s selling them so clearly SOMEBODY is buying them. A horse who stays sound and has great heart rates and recoveries could be somebody’s golden ticket.

But yes from what I have read and heard, it seems most endurance riders select locally available prospects in the cheap to free category. There’s nothing wrong with that, and I think whether a person wants to pay a boatload or nothing, there is room for both.

Is it the challenge to prove that even a (very) inexpensive horse can compete more or less successfully?
Is it that Endurance riders as a group, generally speaking, are “cheap?”
Is it that Arabians (or Arab crosses) are bred in too great a number and are too easily available?

I don’t think there is any ‘challange’ in finding a cheap horse I just think that ,sadly, there are alot of arabs being bred out there (with some other breeds as well such as QH’s) and then dumped onto CL cheap. So while alot of them may be unusual bloodlines I know that if I look hard enough I can find a few decent bloodlines with great conformation CHEAP.

Conformation obviously matters, but I will say that, if you know what you’re looking for, you can find alot of off breeds and crosses that are perfect for the sport that are again ‘cheap’ due to no papers.

I also believe that endurance riders are in it as much for the ‘look’ as some other sports. Dressage is alot about ‘look’ and who you’re training with and having the right breed etc. Basically the more you pay for a horse the better, and Ohhhhh if you can say he was imported poeple will stand drooling at him even if he’s only doing training level.

My trainers top endurance horses was $600 and competed at the Pan-Am games. She’s been offered $6500 for her current horse (diff horse).

This is so very, VERY incorrect I have to say something.

So, AV2 – exactly how many $20K horses have you sold that you know this?

Crap!!!

Awww bless your heart. I’m so sorry you’re having a bad day but I do hope you feel better now. :sadsmile:

JSM - “in it for the look?” I’m not sure I am following on that one? If the look is sweat, mud, horse hair, lack of sleep, no makeup, dirty clothes…:lol:

Therefore the answer is zero.

Vickey’s developed zero horses from 1K to 20K.

Zero.

[QUOTE=katarine;5383285]
Therefore the answer is zero.

Vickey’s developed zero horses from 1K to 20K.

Zero.[/QUOTE]

I’m willing to give her a chance.

Vickey - I’ve got a horse for you to sell on commission. Get 20k for it and you can keep half.

Oh if I’m wrong about it, we’re sure to hear about it. I’m all ears and perfectly willing to be wrong.

If I were to work hard enough and long enough, I’m sure I could find a buyer who would pay $20,000 for my horse.

The whole point of this thread is to discuss why we think endurance horses sell for so little money (less than they actually may be worth) so to claim you could sell yours for 20K makes no sense in this context. I think we pretty much all agree that a good horse can be had for four figures (or even less…) and do well.

And to compare yourself to a breeding and training program like Darolyn’s makes no sense either. I doubt that even those horses sell for 15-20K at this point, so why would someone pay an unknown, mostly LD rider that kind of money? I know nothing about your horses (they may be great) and your training methods (they may be proven) and I don’t mean to insult you with this at all, but please be realistic.

I disagree with the comment that endurance riders are cheap. That could not be farther from the truth!! $60,000 rigs, $2,000 saddles, GPS, heart monitors, 10 ride weekends per season, often traveling thousands of miles

Let me clarify what I mean by “cheap.” Being cheap is an attitude, as in:
You’re cheap if you buy the crappiest hay/feed even though your horse has to perform more than any other horse in any other discipline.
You’re cheap if you ride in ill-fitting tack (whether it’s an expensive saddle or not) and don’t bother with a saddle fitter even though your horse has to perform much longer than any other horse in any other discipline.
You’re cheap if you’re an unbalanced rider who doesn’t know how to leg-yield and still don’t bother taking lessons.
You’re cheap if your horse has holes in his (ground) training, is disrespectful and may harm others, and you’re not enlisting a trainer to fix it.

I’m sure you get the point now. It is not about the fancy trailers at all (I, for one, still sleep in a tent ;)) - it’s about the attitude towards a very strenuous discipline in where we ask more of our horses than in other disciplines and yet not everyone treats it as such. And if you still don’t know what I’m talking about you are lucky to ride with great people who educated themselves and are not “cheap” at all.
In our region, there is a greater number of riders than elsewhere (this being “Tevis Country”) and so you will see a much wider variety of both “cheapness” and professionalism.

I really know nothing about A2 and the beef she obviously has with many posters on here, but I do know her post really rubbed me the wrong way. Not only the dismissal that you “just” need a horse to stay sound, which really irritated me. Also just because someone has told you they would buy your horse doesn’t mean crapola unless there is money in your hand. When I put that gelding for sale the two people who said they would buy him if I put him on the market didn’t. Buyers are liars, a quote from my BFF who is in real estate :winkgrin: I was lucky to sell him quickly and for my asking price partly due to the horse and partly due to the fact I have a pretty decent reputation in my region.

Darolyn, Christoph, the Reynolds, etc. are able to get big bucks for their ponies based on reputation. Whether or not you agree with their program or quality of horse flesh (or think yours is equal) is beside the point- you can’t argue with their records and THAT is why they can sell horses for what they do. Good luck with that.

No, seriously. I’ve been breeding & selling horses for 14 yrs and have gotten fair to middling at it and in my life $20K horses have been pretty darn rare.

So how many $20K horses HAVE you sold? Since you seem to think it is so doable…

Just asking, that’s all…

Maybe the prices are just coming back to " reality" like the real estate market? There will always be some who can and will pay 20k plus for a horse and if they do, that is their business. I personally think they are crazy, I don’t care what the horse can or has done, or who it is trained by! You can call me cheap but my $600 horse is all i need and worth more in my eyes. It all depends on what the person is looking for and their reasons for buying it. It is true that talk is cheap and all those people who would love to buy your horse can’t be found when you want to sell:mad:

Hey – I have a great project for AV2!

A good friend of mine and a very successful endurance rider & horsewoman attended a sale at Al Marah afew weeks ago. She bought a 2+yr old gelding from their breeding program (sired by Bremervale Andronicus) who already has a 3+ pg. show record, including some wins and/or reserve championships in SHIH. Horse has some height, is sound, good brain, very correct and no issues.

Been handled by pros all his life and (obviously) comes from one of the best Arab breeding programs in this country. Really, REALLY nice boy. And she paid? $3100!!!

So I’m thinking AV2 needs to contact them ASAP and educate them on what they did wrong with this horse…you know, since Bazy & her team obviously don’t have the vast experience in marketing and selling that AV2 has ;).

OR I can put her in touch with my friend and I have no doubt my pal would be willing to give AV2 a 10% commission on the sale price if she can even get $10K for the horse.

Here’s your big chance, AV2 to put your money where your mouth is. How 'bout it? I mean, since it’s SO easy to get $20K for an Arab…

Wow somebody needs to get a life. I actually ride and use my horses plus work 2 jobs and maintain a farm. I don’t have time to play patty cake games online. Sorry to dissapoint you. I can’t even remember the last time I saw a photo posted of one of your horses actually out working. But I on the other hand seem to post photos constantly of my horses being used. Apparently that really pisses some people off. Jealousy is ugly apparently.

Jealous? Are you joking?

I am a breeder and I don’t compete much, it’s true. But that is mainly because most all of my horses are sold when they are under a year old.

However, other people DO compete off of the horses I’ve bred. Check out the AERC record for “Octopelle,” a gelding sired by my stallion o/o a breeding stock Paint mare. He is from Kinor’s very first crop and just turned 5 in '10. Here – I’ll help you out: http://www.doublejoy.com/erol/Individual/HorseHistory.asp

Or we could talk about “Sef” one of my WB colts who won his RPSI inspection (over some 25 other foals), was graded with a 8.3 (Gold Premium) and finished up in the Top 20 of the NATION that year o/o over 400 other foals. He sold at 90 days of age for $10K (although I’m sure you could have gotten $20K for him, right?). He will be starting his dressage career this spring. I also bred his dam.

So trust me, I am NOT jealous of you in any way, shape or form. It’s just SO annoying when someone who obviously does NOT have the experience or knowledge about something, yet continues to act like she is such an expert. A picture or two of you riding is not exactly a shining example of your success as a rider, competitor or anything else.

I’m sure you are a very nice woman, but you really just need to learn to think before you type and this forum would be a far better place…keep in mind that some of us are very capable of separating bull$h!t from the real deal…

LOL she won’t even put your money where her mouth is :wink:

Heck, my offer had a 10k value!

[QUOTE=Auventera Two;5395748]
Wow somebody needs to get a life. I actually ride and use my horses plus work 2 jobs and maintain a farm. I don’t have time to play patty cake games online. Sorry to dissapoint you. I can’t even remember the last time I saw a photo posted of one of your horses actually out working. But I on the other hand seem to post photos constantly of my horses being used. Apparently that really pisses some people off. Jealousy is ugly apparently.[/QUOTE]

Maybe you could call Mrs. Tankersley and teach those green horns at Al-Marah a thing or two about marketing horses. She’s only been breeding for 70 years, so I’m sure she could use your advice.

While you’re at it, call Sheila Varian, too. I know she’s never gotten out and actually used her horses, either. That must be the key. :smiley:

[QUOTE=Auventera Two;5395748]
Wow somebody needs to get a life. I actually ride and use my horses plus work 2 jobs and maintain a farm. I don’t have time to play patty cake games online. Sorry to dissapoint you. I can’t even remember the last time I saw a photo posted of one of your horses actually out working. But I on the other hand seem to post photos constantly of my horses being used. Apparently that really pisses some people off. Jealousy is ugly apparently.[/QUOTE]

Bwhahahahhahhaaaa!

Yeah, your horses are “used” as photoshop projects where they get their conformational defects corrected as well as obtain that special luminous glow you claim is obtained by feeding BOSS and flax and 14,000 daily supplements supplied by SmartPak!

Truly A2, you really outed yourself as a WANNA-BE endurance rider in this one!

And please, post more pix of your loose horses being “used” as trailblazers, and “used” to move roundbales, and being “used” as the backyard trail horses they really are…

[QUOTE=Auventera Two;5378917]
Ok, so obviously I was not clear on my comment about conformation :wink: I did not say nor imply that conformation does not matter. I did however say that a horse of any conformation “can” be successful. I’ve seen some really really scary looking horses out there competing SUCCESSFULLY. Would I go out and purposely track one down with terrible conformation? Of course not. Conformation IS important, but some horses just overcome the odds.

really - hence why you have brought horses plenty of problems
past and present beit conformation faults or issues cheap is what cheap does

And yes, I could trade Sweets for 5K tomorrow with 1 phone call. The point is, EVERY horse is worth a fortune to SOMEONE. He’s ridden her, and he’s ridden with her and he thinks she is going to be a top 100 mile horse. (probably not since I don’t have a desire to be that competitive.) And FWIW, I had her sold as an unstarted youngster for $3,000 but backed out of the deal at the last minute.

have your forgot to tell the guy thats shes riddle with ulcers and will be high maintance in vet bills so nto worth 1k let 5k or 20k

For a brief moment in time I wondered what the hell I was going to do with an Arab and thought I should find a nice young warmblood instead. But the point is that whoever thinks the horse is worth the $$$ is going to pay it. As I said, I trim some plain old trail horses that really are nothing special who brought big bucks because they happened to be the right breed, color and personality. ANY sound working horse can bring 20K to the right buyer. They just have to want it bad enough and the horse has to be marketed the right way.

maybe thats becuase they were sound and passed a ppe

DJB used to put prices up on her site but she doesn’t anymore. She has had many horses listed in the $15-20,000 range that had only completed a couple of 50s and some LDs. And she’s selling them so clearly SOMEBODY is buying them. A horse who stays sound and has great heart rates and recoveries could be somebody’s golden ticket.
past tense horse markets differ from year to year etc

But yes from what I have read and heard, it seems most endurance riders select locally available prospects in the cheap to free category. There’s nothing wrong with that, and I think whether a person wants to pay a boatload or nothing, there is room for both.[/QUOTE]

interesting you quote endurance riders and what they do when you dont partispate in the events just becuase your brought cheap dont assume others do or dont

[QUOTE=Auventera Two;5395748]
Wow somebody needs to get a life. I actually ride and use my horses plus work 2 jobs and maintain a farm. I don’t have time to play patty cake games online. Sorry to dissapoint you. I can’t even remember the last time I saw a photo posted of one of your horses actually out working. But I on the other hand seem to post photos constantly of my horses being used. Apparently that really pisses some people off. Jealousy is ugly apparently.[/QUOTE]

Interesting.

You do all this and still have time to average just over six posts per day in this forum. Do you post in other forums? What’s your rate there?

You can calculate mine if you like; but I’m retired from three careers and do volunteer work one day a week. I have time. :wink:

Any horse is worth what a buyer will pay. Neither more nor less. In general horses today, accross the board, are worth 20-30% of what they were in 2005-2006. I can see no reason why “endurance” horses would not follow this rule. I’m sure that endurance horses do sell from time to time for big bucks. But if you could get people to honestly report asking and selling prices you’d find they were a lot lower than we’d like to think. Each side has a motivation to lie about actual sale prices. There is no third party that has an interest in honest pricing data.

If you can, routinely, get two or three times what others are getting for the same horse then you’re wasting you time messing with feet (or whatever else you do).

Of course if you are spending all you time in these more menial tasks…

G.