How much land do I really need?

Due to some exciting circumstances, we might be hunting for a small hobby farm this summer.

I’m still trying to decide what my parameters for land would be, exactly, and figuring that out will help us decide whether to look for just a house (horse is in a terrific boarding situation right now) or to take the step toward land now. Land is absolutely the longterm goal for retirement for my horse, but we have some flexibility about whether to do it now.

Here’s what I know I want/need:

  • 3-4 horses at home
  • room for arena (think 100x200 or maybe larger; fiancé wants it to double as a hockey rink in the winter)
  • 2 grass pastures for that 3-4 horse herd, one to be on, one to be fallow
  • large dry lot area; current horse can only have limited grass turnout, and since I like 'em chunky I am assuming that future horses will also benefit from dry lot time
  • full barn, not just turnout sheds; much as I love the idea of 24/7 turnout, current horse needs stall time during the winter, as he’s become temperature-sensitive with age
  • ideally, a second equipment shed of some kind
  • I’d still like to leave room for a decent lawn for the house itself

In my head, assuming the land is suitable in other ways (relatively level, drains well, mostly cleared, etc.), I need 8 acres. I’d love to find as much as 20, but finding level, open, affordable land + house on 20 acres in Vermont is tough at best!

Is it realistic to project the setup above onto 8 acres? Should I limit the search to property with more space?

I think it is possibly realistic, but tight. I want something similar, but make it 4-5 horses instead. We’re looking at 10-15 acres, however, having ample grazing is very important to me, so I would rather have a bit too much than too little.

I’ll be interested to see what others have to say!

My barn & house are on 3.5 acres which is about what it would take space wise for you to have the very nice large arena, barn, house, utility building and dry lot. That would leave just under 5 acres for your pastures for 3 or 4 horses. You would divide them into 2.5 acre pastures for rotation. You would have more than enough physical space but you won’t be able to leave them on the pasture 24/7 because they will eat it down.

So yes, 8 acres would be a nice size and a size that wouldn’t have you a servant to keep the place running if it’s well laid out. Just figure you have to control turnout and have room for hay storage.

[QUOTE=kerlin;7892835]
Due to some exciting circumstances, we might be hunting for a small hobby farm this summer.

I’m still trying to decide what my parameters for land would be, exactly, and figuring that out will help us decide whether to look for just a house (horse is in a terrific boarding situation right now) or to take the step toward land now. Land is absolutely the longterm goal for retirement for my horse, but we have some flexibility about whether to do it now.

Here’s what I know I want/need:

  • 3-4 horses at home
  • room for arena (think 100x200 or maybe larger; fiancé wants it to double as a hockey rink in the winter)
  • 2 grass pastures for that 3-4 horse herd, one to be on, one to be fallow
  • large dry lot area; current horse can only have limited grass turnout, and since I like 'em chunky I am assuming that future horses will also benefit from dry lot time
  • full barn, not just turnout sheds; much as I love the idea of 24/7 turnout, current horse needs stall time during the winter, as he’s become temperature-sensitive with age
  • ideally, a second equipment shed of some kind
  • I’d still like to leave room for a decent lawn for the house itself

In my head, assuming the land is suitable in other ways (relatively level, drains well, mostly cleared, etc.), I need 8 acres. I’d love to find as much as 20, but finding level, open, affordable land + house on 20 acres in Vermont is tough at best!

Is it realistic to project the setup above onto 8 acres? Should I limit the search to property with more space?[/QUOTE]

8 acres is do-able but only if the land is exactly right and your horse-keeping / pasture management practices are on the mark. 8 USABLE acres.

I think the challenge is that horse-keeping requires many dimensions and planning a new facility is not easy. Much of a given plot is often not usable.

Between soil types, drainage patterns, setbacks from watersheds, stormwater drainage regulations, zoning, neighbors, flood plains, easements, setbacks, etc there are many factors that have a huge effect. I find that sellers believe every square inch of their land is worth top dollar and useful for every possible need, and that reality is very far from that. The more homework you do on the property before you buy it, the better prepared you will be to make an offer that is reasonable and gives you some assurance that you will be allowed to do what you intend. Of course truly reasonable offers can send distorted sellers off to find another interested buyer rather than negotiate.

This is one reason why buying an existing property is so useful - even if major renovations are in order, the land use, buildings, etc are already in place and not in question.

David

Years ago, someone told me that the perfect size sailboat was always the one that was 2 feet longer than the one you owned. :slight_smile:

I have found that to be somewhat true of property, as well. For me, 8 acres is not quite enough to do what you want to do. The last place we lived when I still lived at home was 10 acres and we had everything* you have on your list and 4 horses. Well, 3 horses and a pony.

*We didn’t have a large dry lot, but my Dad had a 1-2 acre garden plot, so I called that equivalent to your dry lot.

Also, check local zoning. Here in western NY most towns require 10 acres to keep that many horses. Another thing is location for getting off the property if you want to trail ride - make sure you aren’t land locked.

We have 7.5 acres that includes a pond and some wetlands. We probably have around 3.5/4 acres of “horse” space. We have 4 paddocks and 1 sacrifice area and I have 3 Thoroughbreds. We grow good grass here from May/June until September-ish. It’s really tight to manage the 3 horses on this amount of acreage. We are looking for a place that would allow at least 6 acres of pasture.

I have 10 acres and 4 horses, with a four stall barn (building is 48 x 34, I think), a garage ish structure that we’re turning into storage that is 24 x 18, three fields that are perhaps 2 acres each and a plans for an indoor. We’ll enlarge the back field next year, for another acre or so of space.

Layout is super important and I feel like I would have a much more workable setup if the barn was in a different spot, so definitely consider that when you’re looking around. I don’t think I’d want any LESS than 10 acres and I’m eyeballing the land behind us, dreaming about adding another 10 (or buying the strip all the way to the road, which would be 80, total. Ooooh.)

We talked about layout and function a lot in my thread here: [URL=“http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?440659-We-are-moving-and-bringing-the-horses-home!-Fun-with-manure-161”]http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?440659-We-are-moving-and-bringing-the-horses-home!-Fun-with-manure-161

ETA: my horses are in the barn at night, and fed hay overnight, even in the summer. I don’t think I have enough pasture to leave them out 24/7 on grass and not have them totally trash it.

I have 9 acres total and 4 horses.

1 acre is my driveway
1 acre is wooded/ my dry lot
1 acre is around the house
6 acres is pasture

I have a small barn and a garden shed.

I am very tight on space. I don’t have enough grazing land. I need at least 4 more acres to feel confident that my pasture is sustainable.

Location, layout, and pasture are everything.

I wouldn’t do less than 10 acres. 8 would be the absolute minimum.

I have 10 acres, 8 are in pasture the other two are house, yard, barn, etc. The 3 acre pasture is very rarely used leaving me with 5 acres of very nice pasture. I have 4 horses. I had to quit feeding them this summer because they got so plump. But we meticulously maintain our pastures, lime, fertilizer, spray, mow, etc. And I’m in the south where we have had wonderful mild summers and plenty of rain.

It depends where you are.

In our part of the SW, standard in season grazing takes 25 acres per horse and most really figure 30, to be on the safe side.

We have two horse pastures we rotate, one is 112 acres and one 122 acres and we have a limit of 4 horses for those pastures, although at times had 5 there.

Just an example that we can’t really say how many acres, it depends what your grass where you are can handle.

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I have 15 acres and regularly had 5 horses…one large 10 acre pasture, a 3 1/2 acre pasture, paddocks, grass arena and barn area. It was perfectly adequate. Horses were not turned out 24/7 and I fed hay in the winter. I did rotate.

Now I have one horse and way, way too much property.

Go for more acres over being “exactly right” in your planning. We have 14 acres, of which almost 3 acres is used by the house, 2 barns, driveways, yard space and a woods area. The rest of 11 acres, minus some double fence lanes, a wet spot fenced off, is available for grazing. I WISH I had about 5 more acres, but we manage nicely with the lesser quantity.

Our horses are able to be on free grazing for half the day, stalled the other half of the day in summer. Our pasture is excellent, very productive with regular mowing and fertilizing, even in dry summer years. Ground is almost 100% usable since we don’t have rocks, poor ground that won’t grow things,. This 11 acres includes a large outdoor arena, 100x30 meters, which horses graze on when not being used. I have it in 6 paddocks, which allows better use of the ground, better rotation schedule, so nothing is overgrazed.

We have between 6-8 horses most of the time, who are all grazed for summer food. They only get hay if hauled out to a show. They get some grain (less than a pound each) and wet beet pulp once a day, when stalled half the (24 hour) day in summer. None have any limitations on grazing, no hoof or other health issues needing dry lot care. Horses are large but easy keepers, not allowed to be porkers with regular work.

So do consider “how useable” the land you are looking at is. Woods are not accessible to our horses, they just kill the trees. Woods are a good windbreak for barns and paddocks horses are out in. Sure would be a lot of work to clear, for the tiny amount of grazing it would provide, as well as removing the cover to not look in the neighbor’s yard.

Ground that is wet, swampy, is probably not going to be greatly productive either, if water is on it much of the year. Check the ditches around any land. Deep ditches mean they drain LOTS of water from surrounding areas. We had to fix a tile line that drains our wet spot this year. Old line had broken, so that lowest field “appeared” to be full of small artesian springs after heavy rains! Made the arena need a day to dry out after such a rain. I spend EXTRA time in summer keeping those drainage ditches NAKED so they work effectively in water removal. I REMEMBER how deep the water gets when we get 5-6" of rain in 12-14 hours (up over the 60" fence posts in the lowest corner), so I want that much water gone FAST. I expect if you are on a mountainside, water will drain well even if ditches are not kept up. But we are on the high side of the river, so water leaves easily, we don’t get flooding that stays and stays. The well head is above any high water that comes, to stay clean. Things I never considered when we were looking at property, but would be high on my shopping list if we ever moved. One place we looked at had ditches over 14ft deep by the road, flat-as-a-pancake land, just on the other side of town. Doesn’t look very good in heavy rain!

Good luck shopping, go for bigger acreage over smaller. Up to you to use that space or leave it stand as farm develops. Go with smaller, but more paddocks, for better rotation scheduling. Land and grass gets a better rest with longer spacing of grazing. Horses do a better job of grazing the entire paddock evenly in smaller, mowed spaces. We keep horses in two bands so none are crowded, have less land impact running about in little (1 1/2 acre)paddocks, still have plenty of grass in ALL the paddocks of our small place.

Hope you find a nice place.

I agree that the answer is usually “more than what you’ve got” :lol:

I have 6 horses on 5 acres (every inch of the property is usable, which is definitely not the norm around here). All live out 24/7 and I don’t feed much hay during the summer months, but everyone’s on full hay the rest of the year.

I have a 100x180 arena, and the house/yard/driveway take up a bit of space. So I would guess that I have 3 to 3 1/2 acres for the horses. We do fine, but I do wish I had more space than I do!

It really depends on the quality of the fields, I’m assuming you don’t want to supplement with hay more then you have too, and you don’t want them eating it down to nothing.

My parents farm is 200 acres in northern Ontario, most of it is swamp or wooded though. The front field is 15 acres of good pasture, drains well, etc. The back field is 10 acres of ok pasture, and it doesn’t drain as well. There is also a 2 acre dry lot that they go out in during the winter with a roundbale.
Up here that much pasture is enough to support 3 horses year round (they get hay in the winter, grain all year), and 5 steers from April to October. If they had any less land then that the horses would have to be in the dry lot most of the year, my Dad is not a horse person and understandably does not want to look at bare or torn up fields.

The little time I’ve spent in Vermont makes me think that you wouldn’t need this much land, but keeping your paddocks looking nice without limiting turnout might be harder then you think.

How much land you will need will rely solely on where you buy and what the ground is.

You do not want sand Sand is lethal to horses. You want to buy on a hill, which is safer during floods. Preferably somewhere that does get rain and the grass grows.

If you can throw in a horsey culture around you so as there are trainers and competitions even better

At Rochedale we have a property that is 12 and a quarter acres. It can take 20 horses, each with a separate shelter, all the owners do their own looking after twice a day and we get $700.00 a week income that does not include feeding, rugging, giving lessons, renting the house or selling horse manure at the gate.

[QUOTE=kerlin;7892835]
Due to some exciting circumstances, we might be hunting for a small hobby farm this summer.

I’m still trying to decide what my parameters for land would be, exactly, and figuring that out will help us decide whether to look for just a house (horse is in a terrific boarding situation right now) or to take the step toward land now. Land is absolutely the longterm goal for retirement for my horse, but we have some flexibility about whether to do it now.

Here’s what I know I want/need:

  • 3-4 horses at home
  • room for arena (think 100x200 or maybe larger; fiancé wants it to double as a hockey rink in the winter)
  • 2 grass pastures for that 3-4 horse herd, one to be on, one to be fallow
  • large dry lot area; current horse can only have limited grass turnout, and since I like 'em chunky I am assuming that future horses will also benefit from dry lot time
  • full barn, not just turnout sheds; much as I love the idea of 24/7 turnout, current horse needs stall time during the winter, as he’s become temperature-sensitive with age
  • ideally, a second equipment shed of some kind
  • I’d still like to leave room for a decent lawn for the house itself

In my head, assuming the land is suitable in other ways (relatively level, drains well, mostly cleared, etc.), I need 8 acres. I’d love to find as much as 20, but finding level, open, affordable land + house on 20 acres in Vermont is tough at best!

Is it realistic to project the setup above onto 8 acres? Should I limit the search to property with more space?[/QUOTE]

We have everything you describe on 6.2 acres. I don’t know much about Vermont though.

We are in Washington where green grass is not lacking. Do you want them living off pasture or are you willing to supplement hay all year round?

Ours get just pasture 5 months, supplement hay with pasture 2 months, then just hay the rest of the time.

We have a 12’ wide track around the perimeter so that when pastures are closed down they can still run around.

How much land do you want to maintain? More land means you can spread things out more, but that is also more to take care of.

We went from 16 down to 6. I think now 8 would be perfect. A tad more breathing room, but we are doing just fine.

You would need to be on top of manure, composting works great for us. Sell it or spread it once it’s cooked.

We have:

5 horses and a pony.

4 stall barn with room to turn to 6 if I wanted.
Shop with tractor parking.
140x220 arena.
60’ round pen.
Circle drive.
Home with MIL quarters.
Track system.
3 rotated pastures for our 4 equines and two smaller pastures that are rotated for our two boarders.
Soon to be (I hope) mounted archery lane that leads to said arena. :smiley:

Too much yard, more will be pasture one day.

4-6 horses? 10-15 acres.

With all the buildings and the scale of them that you want, you really need to start with looking at your local zoning regs. Here, not only do you have restrictions on the # of horses (similar to the comment about NY zoning) for a given lot size, that number changes depending on the exact zoning. There are several different zones that allow horses, but some allow more than others. And then you are looking a lot of square footage of building footprints with the large barn, arena, house, and shed(s). Even if you could fit it all on 8 acres, would you be allowed to?

Lots of good advice here, but no one’s touched on the riding ring/hockey rink idea? That could be . . . a serious marital strain!! Before committing yourself, talk with an excavator and maybe an engineer to see how it would go :winkgrin: