How Much Should Shoes with Pads Cost?

[Wanderosa]

Background: We “lease” a lovely medium pony for my daughter from a another rider at our hunter/jumper barn who long ago outgrew her. The owners were kind enough to basically give us carte blanche with the pony in exchange for paying for her shoes. The owner used her for competitive driving until she left for college last year so the pony has worn shoes on all 4 feet as long as I’ve known her. Mid-summer, the pony foundered. Trainer caught it immediately and pony has been doing well post-treatment. Farrier is young and a relative newbie who was trained by the the top farrier in the area. I wouldn’t chose myself. But he works well enough with input from the trainer, who is the best all-around horsewomen I’ve ever met.

My question: Pony had her regular shoeing about three weeks ago. That was a Friday. The trainer texted me Saturday morning that the farrier said that it looked like the laminae were slightly stretched so he put pads on. I take my daughter to school her on Saturday afternoon. I picked up the pony’s front left foot expecting to see the black rubbery kind of pads. Instead, it looked like the shoe had been unevenly and loosely packed with what looked like unset rubber cement. Picked up the right front foot to see the same except the entire mass had pretty much torn out of the shoe and was hanging on by a thread. It looked like some sort of black fabric mesh was tacked under the shoe, ostensibly to give the gel substance something to grip and the sole and frog were visible underneath. On the one hand, I can see where this arrangement could theoretically work better than the traditional kind of pad if it allows for better blood flow through the foot. On the other hand, how on earth could any trained farrier think this stuff would hold up on a 600 lbs equine for two seconds?

Trainer apparently shared some of my concerns because she told the owners that she’d like for the pony to go in to the top farrier’s clinic for her next shoeing before VHSA finals net month. All is well and good until this evening when I pick my younger child up from her lesson and find an invoice from the farrier for an additional amount that is basically half again of the normal shoeing cost for the “gel pads”. I’ve been around horses for 35+ years. Managed a couple small barns and had boarders of our own for years. This is a new one for me. Anyone seen pads like this and know what they’re supposed to look like when applied properly and a rough estimate of cost? I don’t want to cheat the farrier because lord knows it’s a hard job. I’ve had a few eye-roll worthy situations with this particular one in the past, though. And considering 1 of 2 pads failed in under 24 hours I’m not sure what to think.

[AppaloosaDressage]

It sounds like your farrier tried to apply equipak but didn’t give it time to set and dry (hold the foot up about a minute after covering sole with equipak, place a thin foam square on bottom of hoof and let horse stand on that another minute or two… ) …so when he neglected the most important step there it just oozed out. I’ve seen that happen a time or two with less than proficient farriers.
On my horses that get equipack (two of six) it runs $235-$265 (shod all around, equipak on fronts only)definitley find you’re little guy a farrier who is experienced with applying equipak.

[alibi_18]

Always ask for prices before having anything done.

Have you called the farrier back with your concerns and to put back the missing shoe?

Prices depends a lot on location… and notoriety of the farrier.

Have you asked your farrier why he decided to put Equipak on?

I’ve always done leather rim front pads and it worked wonders. Not that expensive either.

[Wanderosa]

@AppaloosaDressage

It sounds like your farrier tried to apply equipak but didn’t give it time to set and dry (hold the foot up about a minute after covering sole with equipak, place a thin foam square on bottom of hoof and let horse stand on that another minute or two… ) …so when he neglected the most important step there it just oozed out. I’ve seen that happen a time or two with less than proficient farriers.
On my horses that get equipack (two of six) it runs $235-$265 (shod all around, equipak on fronts only)definitley find you’re little guy a farrier who is experienced with applying equipak.

Thank you! Just watched a video tutorial on applying Equipak. That appears to be what he was attempting. Unfortunately, the end result on the pony looks nothing like the video. What color is it supposed to be when it dries? One variety is blue and looks to be clear when cured. The other is black. What’s on the pony’s feet looks yellowish. Basically like rubber cement. Is it normally supposed to be contoured to allow the frog to engage?

I’ll have a polite talk with the farrier. It’s normally $200 for 4 shoes. He wants another $70 for the Equipak on the fronts. I’m a single parent and ride twice a year now if I’m lucky so that my daughter has half a chance at going pro someday. I’m annoyed both that I was given no warning that there would be a significant additional expense and that it was done incorrectly and he has made no effort to correct it. (Unlike every other farrier I’ve ever used.) And I’m looking at probably $350-$400 to haul the pony over to Virginia Tech for the uber farrier to work on her less than 4 weeks after all this. Fortunately, I’m off that day so I can attend the appointment. Because I really want to see what this pony’s feet look like under her shoes.

[retiredhorse]

Did you get charged twice for the pads? Or did they get billed separately from the shoeing?

Did you call farrier to fix the pad that fell out? (And ask for explanation about what his pads are/what they do? I like to know this stuff.) I’ve called mine back if something was wrong or didn’t hold up, and they’ve come back to fix it.

Equi pak is new to me, so I googled. Here are pics of what equipak looks like, the one on the right has mesh.

ETA: didn’t see your reply! I’d call the farrier back and have him fix it, if you want pony to have those pads? Or have them removed if you don’t? I’d still pay the $70, but tell him I want to be notified of any shoeing changes/additions in the future, if you stick with him.

Not sure what the barn/trainer policy is on stuff like this also. If they’re telling farrier (or vet) that they can do whatever and charge client, that needs to be addressed as well.

[Wanderosa]

@alibi_18

Always ask for prices before having anything done.

Have you called the farrier back with your concerns and to put back the missing shoe?

Prices depends a lot on location… and notoriety of the farrier.

Have you asked your farrier why he decided to put Equipak on?

I’ve always done leather rim front pads and it worked wonders. Not that expensive either.

Valid questions. We’re in what is probably the most expensive area for horses in the US. I’ve ridden at dressage and eventing barns with FEI level riders and thought I had a reasonable grasp on techniques and costs. Until this one threw me for a loop. The issue is that I’m typically not there when the farrier comes and the barn culture is one where most owners leave a check in advance of farrier and vet visits. And the pony doesn’t belong to me so it ends up being decision-making by committee. I probably overstepped with the owners regarding the course of her Cushings treatment and I’ve been trying not to make unnecessary waves since. I’m not adverse to additional expense to keep her trucking along as long as it is executed correctly and works. She’s one of those lovely equine souls that will teach a child everything they need to know. Far better than I could ever afford. And the owners are tickled pink to see her back in the hunter/jumper show ring and actually come to cheer her and my daughter on. Now that I have the necessary information I’ll talk to the farrier directly. I’m sympathetic that at this point he won’t have a chance to correct the work. But this just isn’t appropriate to bill for.

[AppaloosaDressage]

@Wanderosa

Thank you! Just watched a video tutorial on applying Equipak. That appears to be what he was attempting. Unfortunately, the end result on the pony looks nothing like the video. What color is it supposed to be when it dries? One variety is blue and looks to be clear when cured. The other is black. What’s on the pony’s feet looks yellowish. Basically like rubber cement. Is it normally supposed to be contoured to allow the frog to engage?

I’ll have a polite talk with the farrier. It’s normally $200 for 4 shoes. He wants another $70 for the Equipak on the fronts. I’m a single parent and ride twice a year now if I’m lucky so that my daughter has half a chance at going pro someday. I’m annoyed both that I was given no warning that there would be a significant additional expense and that it was done incorrectly and he has made no effort to correct it. (Unlike every other farrier I’ve ever used.) And I’m looking at probably $350-$400 to haul the pony over to Virginia Tech for the uber farrier to work on her less than 4 weeks after all this. Fortunately, I’m off that day so I can attend the appointment. Because I really want to see what this pony’s feet look like under her shoes.

The equipak I have seen is blueish/clear because of the copper sulfate … maybe the yellow in yours is some generic? Or the latest “gold edition” lol

I’ve never seen equipak poured to exclude the frog, but have seen half pours where the toe is left open and only back half of hoof is poured… or vice verse. Both mine are in full pours. one mechanical laminitis recovery I had years ago started in full pours, graduated to half pours, then to none. Same situation for one horse who was thin soled, transitioned from full pours, to half, to going strong in regular shoes. So even though it’s an investment now, they may not be necessary in the long run.
Have fun on your field trip to the super-farrier, Glad you’re such a dedicated pony parent, and hey, at least those excursions are always educational!

[IPEsq]

That sounds like the regular Equipak. Looks a little yellow when dry especially if not 100% adhered. The blueish kind has copper sulfate in it. I had trouble with the regular stuff sticking this year. One shoeing, I lost the entire pad in one foot. The copper sulfate kind did fine. I wonder if they are having a quality control issue with it? In any event, my farrier was surprised and we will do the copper sulfate kind in the future. We use it seasonally. Anyway, costs me around $300 for big WB feet (use almost 2 tubes of Equipak). The extra materials (mesh, foam boards, applicator tips which often break) cost a fair amount plus it’s about $30 a tube for the pad itself. For reference mine has auminum up front and steel behind which costs $225 without the pads.

It sucks that it didn’t stick, and I’d see if he can redo that part, but it is a good product and your prices aren’t crazy even considering smaller feet.

[retiredhorse]

@Wanderosa

Valid questions. We’re in what is probably the most expensive area for horses in the US. I’ve ridden at dressage and eventing barns with FEI level riders and thought I had a reasonable grasp on techniques and costs. Until this one threw me for a loop. The issue is that I’m typically not there when the farrier comes and the barn culture is one where most owners leave a check in advance of farrier and vet visits. And the pony doesn’t belong to me so it ends up being decision-making by committee. I probably overstepped with the owners regarding the course of her Cushings treatment and I’ve been trying not to make unnecessary waves since. I’m not adverse to additional expense to keep her trucking along as long as it is executed correctly and works. She’s one of those lovely equine souls that will teach a child everything they need to know. Far better than I could ever afford. And the owners are tickled pink to see her back in the hunter/jumper show ring and actually come to cheer her and my daughter on. Now that I have the necessary information I’ll talk to the farrier directly. I’m sympathetic that at this point he won’t have a chance to correct the work. But this just isn’t appropriate to bill for.

I highly recommend talking to trainer (and possibly getting in writing) about who can authorize additional expenses, so you’re not taken by surprise again.

Also, if this farrier is the barn/trainer’s farrier, it may cause some friction between them if you don’t pay. I’m not saying you should, just pointing out that this could become an issue. Especially if he’s otherwise good with feet.

And some h/j programs prefer if whoever is paying just write checks and not ask questions… hopefully yours is not one of those.

[mswillie]

My very good farrier charges 240.00 for 4 shoes with pads up front. He hot shoes if that makes a difference. He will also come and fix anything that goes wrong or a pulled shoe (both fortunately rare instances) for no additional charge. I think he goes by the philosophy that provided the horse has a good foot to work with, his work should last from one shoeing to the next.

[endlessclimb]

Careful with the clinic shoeing - DEFINITELY get a cost on that BEFORE the guy starts.

I’ve been to Purdue a million and a half times, and the ONLY time I felt ripped off was when I was charged $700 for a set of shoes with equipak by their clinic farrier. 700.hundred.stinking.dollars.

[PNWjumper]

It does not sound like you were overcharged (but endlessclimb - yikes!!). I would expect to pay something in that range for equipack + application as well even though my farrier charges less for shoes. I pay $145 for a full set of shoes and my horse who lives in wedge pads (no fancy silicon or filler) is $185-210 with the pads (the extra is for the times that my farrier is also rebuilding part of a foot with equilox - sigh). If I could easily see it getting up to $270 with a “fancier” set up (a silent thank you to my horse for not being able to tolerate silicon ;)). Your farrier is in $40 for materials to put the equipack on your pony’s feet.in supplies alone. Only tacking on $30 for time/skill/application seems like a perfectly reasonable amount to me. Unless, of course, he applied it incorrectly, in which case I would expect him to fix it at his own cost.

Whether it was applied correctly, however, is a separate question. If you think it was applied incorrectly then take pictures of the foot and send them to your farrier and explain that you’re worried about what it looks like. If he blows you off, share pictures here (or with another farrier or your vet or your trainer - or all of the above) and you can figure out whether it was indeed appiled incorrectly or not.

I can’t tell from your description whether it was just a slightly messy application (which could still be totally effective), or a botched job. Not sure if you meant that the entire mesh/pad had torn out of one foot (in which case it’s definitely up to the farrier to repair) or if you just meant that a blob of it that had squeezed out the back was hanging off the shoe. When my farrier puts pads on my horses there is often a fair amount of crap hanging out of the backs of the shoes for a few days as everything shifts around to fit correctly. I have seen many shoeing jobs that would definitely not match up with the company sanctioned marketing example, but are completely effective. For the record, when applied properly, the equipack/mesh combo has lasted for entire shoeing cycles on my horses who are out on uneven footing 24/7. So yes, having seen it last on 1400lb warmbloods, it should do just fine with a 600 lb pony.

[Wanderosa]

Oh, this was definitely not done correctly. The entire pad on the right foot was ripping out and fell onto the floor when I picked up her foot. Sequence of events was as follows:

1. I leave a check for the usual $200 because I see that she’s scheduled for 10/5.

2. 10/6, trainer alerts me that farrier reported that laminea looked slightly stretched and that he’d recommended and executed pads. At our visit that afternoon I’m curious to see what the pads look like and find the ripped and missing pad and what appears to be incorrect application on the other foot.

3. Trainer tells me she’d feel more comfortable with a second opinion and asks me what I think about pony going to the Zeus of farriers in our area. I agree I’d feel better with him doing a set or two going forward until the hoof stabilizes. (Farrier isn’t too much more than others in the area. I know people that use him as their regular farrier.) Trainer says she’ll talk to the pony’s owners.

4. Pick up younger child from lesso lbs and the boarder who sort of manages the barn for board hands me
   an invoice for an additional $70 that farrier left while he was out to shoe another horse. Trainer is injured and wasn’t there while the farrier was and expressed surprise about the invoice. Pony has appointment with Zeus of farriers on the 30th. Trainer encouraged me to discuss splitting the cost with the owners since it’s only 25 days out from the 10/5 set I paid for.

i think eveyone’s wires got crossed. I’m putting it on the farrier unless additional details come to light. I’ve had a few questionable invoices in the past that he backed down off when I asked.

[RaeHughes]

Okay - we have just had the final corrective shoeing for a foundered horse. Usually, unless there has been pedal bone rotation, you should not need to pack their feet. Unless you want to of course.However, to work properly, packing needs to set against something - so you should have seen a pad with some packing possibly visible out the back. It should also set very hard. if it isn’t there, or is broken, then he didn’t set it right.

Our pony foundered only on her back feet and had severe pedal bone rotation and was shod all round with heart-bar shoes, pads and packing. Shod all round the same to provide good support for the non-foundered feet during the recovery. Our farrier is a very good remedial farrier. And trained under another similar farrier.

Our shoeing , in NZ, is usually cheaper than what I see quoted from the US. Our 1st shoeing - with all the packing and brand new shoes - was $800 and took the farrier 3 hours. This included making the shoes to measure, fitting and packing them and waiting until the packing set. Our was also yellow in colour and seems to be what they use now.

The second shoeing was $500 - the shoes were already made. This was re-done about 4-5 weeks 1st shoeing. Same cost for 3rd and 4th.

Now, after 10 months, Kotiro’s pedal bone rotation has 1/2vd. We were at 14 degrees LH and 13 degrees RH - now at 7 and 6. The difference in the xrays is amazing! She is slowly coming back into work - has been doing light ground work for the last 8 weeks and will be under saddle in a couple more - after we re-acquaint her with the concept :). She is almost back to standard shoes - with only heart bars on her back feet.

[findthedistance]

I paid $200 for front shoes w/ Equipak (hinds barefoot) two years ago. At the time farrier was charging $145 for a regular half-set. I believe I’m in the same region as you, and the price you were quoted sounds about right to me for a full set w/ Equipak up front.

However, correctly applied Equipak should NOT be falling out within 24 hours. I’ve seen it start crumbling out at the end of a cycle, but never at the beginning of a cycle. Mistakes happen. Let him know that the Equipak failed. Give him a chance to either come fix it or un-invoice you. I would not be inclined to pay for a service that both I did not request and failed immediately.

[cheval_convert]

9 years ago I was paying $225 for front shoes with wedges and Equipak. Mare was barefoot behind. (Did I mention I love my barefoot gelding.)

[TCA_Arabians]

You clearly live in an area where farrier costs are a lot higher than where I live. I’ll just address the ‘whose on first’ part of this. You likely need to eat the additional cost. But, before you do I would call the farrier and tell him what happened. Ask him what sort of a discount/credit he thinks is appropriate. If he says ‘none’ I’d take it up with the owner and I would pay it.
That is your agreement with the owner and it sounds like you don’t want to jeopardize that relationship.

The important thing is to address communication going forward. Do talk to the owner about this and work out how to handle it in the future. Then, the two of you can advise the trainer how you want it handled. If this farrier can’t do any specialized shoeing - it makes more sense to haul the pony to Zeus (as you put it) from the get go when something like this comes up in the future. Good luck and to your daughter. I love the enthusiasm of the young ones.

[Hawks_Nest]

Just to throw this out there, this summer our barn farrier put pour in pads in a horse on the farm and they just crumbled. Apparently, another company had come out with a very similar product to equipak and because equipak was having issues with their cartridges, he gave this new product a try. It turned out, that the new product didn’t hold up in any of the horses he had used it on. He apologized and went back to using equipak.

So there is a chance that your barn farrier fell into the same trap as ours. Let him know what happened. Any good farrier will do their best to fix a situation like this, especially if he felt that the pour in pad was necessary for the pony. He’ll want to know that what he did didn’t work.

[retiredhorse]

@Hawks Nest

Let him know what happened. Any good farrier will do their best to fix a situation like this, especially if he felt that the pour in pad was necessary for the pony. He’ll want to know that what he did didn’t work.

Agreed. Plus if one fell out and the other has been misapplied, I’d want it fixed ASAP, not wait a few weeks for other farrier – I mean, I might still go to them or switch, but I’d want the pads fixed or removed so it doesn’t cause an issue for pony. I’d be more concerned about the one still in, if you don’t think it looks right.

OP, hope you get this resolved easily, and future communication/payment sorted out. Best of luck to you and your pony.

[Wanderosa]

Spoke with the trainer this evening. She is perfectly fine with me requesting the farrier cancels the charge. The owners are obviously attached to the pony or they wouldn’t still have her. However, they’re busy with the daughter shuttling back and forth from college to campaign the two horses they have. It’s me and the trainer that do the hands on nuts and bolts daily routine for the little mare. They don’t balk at green-lighting the care she needs. But they also won’t notice a problem like faulty pads unless it’s brought to their attention by me or the trainer. From their perspective, the farrier came and the pony looks good.

I think the other pad has long since disintegrated. We were lucky to catch the founder before it developed into a full blown case. Her feet never got hot to the touch and I never saw her rocking back off her fronts, etc. The vet adjusted her Cushings meds and she’s been doing remarkably well. It happened in early July and not even a hint of lameness since. I understand the farrier’s reasoning for the pads (to support the sole). I’m not entirely convinced that the pads are necessarily the way to go. Or if we couldn’t achieve similar support for the sole from a few skilled trimmings. I will say that the farrier has done a decent job at maintaining a healthy hoof shape post-founder.

I’ll report back what the Zeus of farriers recommends after her appointment. She’s such a gem of a little mare. Picture Merry Legs from Black Beauty come to life. Not the fanciest pony out there and her gaits are best suited to driving. But she knows her job and loves it. With my older daughter on board she’s very forward and demands that she asks for things correctly. Put my younger daughter on her and she almost trots in slow motion. I always laugh at how much precision she demands asking for lead changes at home and then she does it herself at shows.