How popular are baroque horses in dressage today?

[QUOTE=D_BaldStockings;4127935]

Introducing NEW outside blood will probably result in some F1 hybrid vigor, but may also have introduced new and different defects into the gene pool which will surface down the generations. Just go read the breed histories and the many posts on the forum here for a sampling.[/QUOTE]

Sure, it may introduce new detrimental recessives, but it will also reduce the odds of those recessives pairing up and manifesting. As long as each of the new blood individuals are kept only on one side of the pedigree, that won’t happen.

Baroque horses in dressage

Even on the winter circuit here in Florida, we see a variety of breeds (though the WBs dominate). There is a smattering of PREs, Andies, Lusitanos, etc., and many of them hold their own in tough competition.

A good judge will look past the breed and judge the individual–some of the old types that “wing” or move up and down like sewing machines are NOT going to score well…and they shouldn’t. I no longer see many of these types of baroque horses in recognized competitions anymore. More breeders are breeding for dressage, so we are seeing more baroque horses with nice straight movement as well as eye-popping extensions AND the ability to easily collect.

I have and Andalusian/Holsteiner cross that is coming along nicely. She is a lovely mover, but she has an Andie brain. Those of you with experience with the breed know that this can be both an advantage and a challenge!

As someone who cares about the Iberian breeds, I wholly disapprove of “breeding for dressage.” I think that’s about the stupidist thing one could possibly do. Firstly because Andalusians, in any event, are bred for dressage. They are the original dressage horse and no warmblood could ever do a piaffe or passage like an Andalusian and certainly not the high school movements. The Andalusian and the Lusitano are old, classical breeds and should be preserved. I think it’s disgusting to ruin a fabulous horse by trying to make it into something it is not. If you want a warmblood, buy a bloody warmblood.

Secondly, if all you care about is the score, then get a horse that can get the score even with a no good, moronic judge who is going to judge your horse on the basis of his or her prejudices. That is by far the most sensible and conservative way to go. That being said, every show is organized by someone - if a judge is biased and enough people complain and say that they won’t ride next year, if that judge is back, the judge won’t be back.

Thirdly, a dressage test is an accumulation of points. Warmbloods are a hodgepodge of different stuff, some of it Iberian. Most warmbloods have a harder time collecting and very few have a truly good piaffe or passage - they might get good scores, but that’s because it’s the norm of what the judges are seeing and simply can’t stack up to what you would see a well schooled SRS horse do for instance. Baroque horses are great at collection and have a harder time with extension. Therefore, if you have a baroque horse, it makes sense to emphasize the parts of the test that call for agility and collection and to ride with a great deal of precision, which is also much easier to do if you’re on something nimble. If you ride intelligently and strategically before an unbiased judge, you should get good scores.

Last, instead of breeding Iberians for dressage, if you want a horse with extension and suspension, it makes more sense to cross breed. That’s all the warmbloods are after all any way - a foundation breed or type selectively outcrossed to produce a given result.

I’ve just recently been shopping a little for my next dressage horse and went to look at a very nice moving Friesian mare yesterday. Fabulous temperment, lovely movement and very forgiving but not very forward at all. I keep hearing that Friesians are a “long backed breed” and this mare certainly was. While lovely, I passed on her because she was a very rectangular horse and long through the loin. Years ago I had a TBX who was a lovely mover but long and trying to get him “through” became an exercise in frustration and all I heard from the trainers I worked with was, “Well he’s got such a long back…” Just do not want to go there again. Alot of the photos of Friesians for sale that I’m seeing also seem rather long the through the back and loin. Any opinions? Is it my misconception?

[QUOTE=FatCatFarm;4368217]
I’ve just recently been shopping a little for my next dressage horse and went to look at a very nice moving Friesian mare yesterday. Fabulous temperment, lovely movement and very forgiving but not very forward at all. I keep hearing that Friesians are a “long backed breed” and this mare certainly was. While lovely, I passed on her because she was a very rectangular horse and long through the loin. Years ago I had a TBX who was a lovely mover but long and trying to get him “through” became an exercise in frustration and all I heard from the trainers I worked with was, “Well he’s got such a long back…” Just do not want to go there again. Alot of the photos of Friesians for sale that I’m seeing also seem rather long the through the back and loin. Any opinions? Is it my misconception?[/QUOTE]

FatCat, your perception is correct, there are many Friesians who are weaker in the loin. However, there are many who are also lovely with strong backs - it is just like any other breed, you need to find one who is built to do the job. I’ve got a young (3 year old) stallion who has a great back and loin, and is much more of the older Baroque “square” style, uphill, more square than rectangular, etc. Many of the lighter style Friesians have the longer backs. The most recent trend is to try to breed for a better riding horse. Interestingly, most dressage literature now tells us we should look for a rectangular (not a square) horse, yet the Baroque style horses (Friesians, Andalusians, Lippizans, etc) are more square.

I’m not sure I would have actually gone out and bought a Friesian to do dressage. I ended up with one, though, after our warmblood died, and I’m quite looking forward to showing him. I’d been working with him for some time, but not seriously, as he didn’t belong to me, but I WAS in love with him. Now that I’m working with him seriously, I’m really enjoying his personality. I suppose a critic would say that he had a slightly long back, but again, one doesn’t look a gift horse in the mouth, so we’ll see how we do. Certainly he’ll be fine through the lower levels, and his back isn’t THAT long that I don’t think he’ll be able to get his legs up under him. His father showed at PSG/Intermediare level, and I know that I don’t have the dedication to get THAT high anyway :).

Jane Savoie has been having tons of fun with her Friesian, Moshi. Think you can teach yours to canter like this?

http://stablescoop.horseradionetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/janesavoiebyrhettsavoie.jpg

Actually his canter is his best gait :D. He scored an 8.5 at his stallion keuring for his canter, and only an 8 for his trot…So perhaps some day, although I wish Jane would come and work with us! I love to ride his canter - it’s explosive and feels very powerful.

Very cool! Every time I see that photo I am awestruck!