How SafeSport operates. And we should all be scared.

[poltroon]

@msrobin

There has to be due process. Initial accusations should be sent to the accuser via certified mail and regular mail. It should also give the person time to prepare for a hearing. Three days is not enough time and of course weekends and holidays should not count.

Can I just say this particular talking point leaves me lolsobbing every time. It is the epitome of privilege to believe that somehow if only there had been a criminal complaint that you would be afforded this convenience and courtesy of notice, bankers hours, etc, rather than two nice deputies showing up at your door at a time convenient to them and inconvenient to you and them taking you away to a nice jail cell indefinitely.

They might take you away even though you were planning to leave for a horse show the next day.

I mean, I guess when you have a six figure income and a million dollars in assets, as many people in this sport do, maybe you think that’s what you’re owed, regardless of any conduct. But that’s not reality for most people.

Please note, they only need probable cause to do this. Not a trial. The trial is later and you might have to wait until they can schedule it before you can leave, even if you’re found not guilty. Could be months.

Being accused of wrongdoing certainly sucks. It’s super inconvenient and also expensive as well as embarrassing. This is true whether it’s in the workplace, civil court, criminal court, USEF Hearing Committee, whatever.

It’s not rational to jump from that to “never accuse anyone of anything ever again.”

Being a victim of wrongdoing, sexual or otherwise, sucks much much more. It’s also super expensive, embarrassing, and inconvenient. And the perpetrator rarely gives 3 working days notice nor cares if you have a horse show the next day.

[poltroon]

PS: the accuser in a criminal trial doesn’t need to pay for an attorney either.

[cloudyandcallie]

@RAyers

Personally, I appreciate their mission statement. I think that anybody who is afraid of protecting kids doing kids sports is rather paranoid and has their own personal agenda and are not really interested in improving the industry.

Especially from somebody who intimately knows how bad this is for children:

Belle Beach replied to Picking Up the Pieces…
in Off Topic
Mar. 30, 2013, 05:05 PM
Where are you at and why hasn’t this teacher been removed and put under investigation by the law?

This is illegal, and depending on state? Illegal for school system to retain teachers and staff too.

Of course, may not be in US?

The law should have done something about this.

And it is NOT your fault, you did nothing wrong.

He is a predator, a shark in a pool of goldfish. He should never be allowed around any children period.

This happened to my cousin, with worse results, over 35 years ago now, and because of lack of laws? He is still teaching. And no doubt still raping and molesting students.

She lobbied for years to get laws changed to where the perverts couldn’t be transferred from school to school to hide them.

Google Amy Hestir Davis law in MO and read about her speech to the legislature.

Sadly? Teacher’s Union was the main one fighting her…which doesn’t say much for them.

And so sorry you had to deal with this…senior year and years leading up to it should be happy time for you…not dealing with this.
SEE LESS | GO TO POST

so op said this in 2013?
thanks RAyers.

[cloudyandcallie]

Thanks RAyers for finding op’s 2013 post.

[dags]

Such an uproar about a USEF ban “ruining lives”, such a demand that it go through the criminal system, such confidence that there is no evidence, when actually no one knows what evidence there is or is not. So blind to the fact that the man they are rabidly defending could very well be convicted and thrown in jail if their demands are met.

Would that not be the height of irony? It’s certainly a wicked display of privilege.

[IPEsq]

Those accused in criminal cases don’t get to follow along with the prosecution’s investigation either in the pre discovery phases.

[BostonHJ]

To the OP and everyone else claiming SafeSport caused RG’s suicide… He confessed to assaulting a 13-year-old and 14-year-old. What actions do you should SafeSport have taken in light of that? Nothing? Or, if most people defending him are unaware of that, are you suggesting that the specific nature of the transgressions be shared publicly? Because I’m pretty sure none of the people on the banned list want that.

It’s a real question for his supporters, though - what should have happened? You have to answer with the knowledge of the age of his victims in mind AND that he confessed.

[Coanteen]

@BostonHJ

To the OP and everyone else claiming SafeSport caused RG’s suicide… He confessed to assaulting a 13-year-old and 14-year-old.

I’ve tried to find that, but the only place I can Google it is the COTH thread and a different horse forum that references COTH. Was it in any other media?

[findeight]

After reading about half the OP here and considering it as a different opinion from somebody personally involved realized it was KS post copied yet again and presented as personal experience. Stop wasting everybody’s time, if you have something new, by all means present your opinion and experience. And if you are going to plagerize somebody else’s opinion and experience, at least credit the source.

[betonbill]

And in the end didn’t the SS inquiry and hearing detailed ad nauseum above eventually do its job and clear the Serios? So SS seems to have worked the way it was supposed to in that case.

[poltroon]

@betonbill

And in the end didn’t the SS inquiry and hearing detailed ad nauseum above eventually do its job and clear the Serios? So SS seems to have worked the way it was supposed to in that case.

Honestly I also don’t think the wife of someone accused of sexual misconduct with a younger woman can be an objective source of reporting, regardless of how the case turned out.

[Toblersmom]

@Belle Beach

990 for 2017 show just under 2.5 million taken in. 2016 990 had them making just over 1.5 million. Not bad for only forming in 2015. Their mission statement alone should give all of us pause.

[h=4]Mission[/h] Our mission is to make athlete well-being the centerpiece of our nation’s sports. All athletes deserve to participate in sports are free from bullying, hazing, sexual misconduct or any form of emotional or physical abuse.
https://www.guidestar.org/profile/47-2475870

Leaving aside the fact that whoever was typing this out added an erroneous “are”, I’m curious to know just what in this mission statement is supposed to “give us all pause.” Of course athlete (both human and animal in our world) well-being should be the centerpiece of sports. Why on earth would it not be? Are these people who have “pause” regarding this statement REALLY suggesting that something else should be the centerpiece? If so, what, exactly? Winning and medals? The coaches? The financial bottom line of the sports industry behemoth and everybody who sucks at its teats? Something else entirely? Any of those things worth athletes sacrificing their short term and long term mental and physical health? Particularly our children and our horses who have limited ability to safeguard their own well-being? (and yes, I know SafeSport does not cover equine athletes, per se, but in our world the philosophy of protection of our equine partners should carry over in how we manage our sport).

Surely, surely, they are not saying we should have “pause” on the second part, as that would imply that they think athletes being subjected to bullying, hazing, etc. is acceptable.

On a more general note, I find it fascinating that SafeSport is getting all this blowback about how people have to be so (supposedly) excessively careful about interacting with minors and how the accused should have the same level of due process as they would in a criminal accusation, etc. Nobody thinks twice about the cautions that must be taken to avoid horses testing positive for proscribed substances, or says there must be the degree of due process given in a criminal case for violations of drug rules. Violation of those rules can get you banned, too, and most of the time the violations would not even begin to approach anything illegal. “Don’t feed your horse paprika for coat color if you are going to a recognized show, it can test,” is a totally acceptable thing, even though the proscribed action is legal, reasonable and harmless under pretty much any circumstances. Say that there needs to be parental consent and supervision by another adult when adult coaching and other staff interact with minors, apparently, that’s just ridiculous in the minds of some. Even though that kind of interaction has proven time and again to be the opening predators use to groom and abuse. Yeah, it sucks that the innocent have to jump through the hoops and watch out for even the resemblance of impropriety. It sucks that everybody has to scour the ingredients of any and every substance used on or even near our horses (and ourselves), cross check against the current banned substance list and things that will cross-test, do a careful analysis of if and when to use perfectly legitimate therapy agents and supplements relative to when we might be showing, etc. because some people dope.

[gottagrey]

@Belle Beach

990 for 2017 show just under 2.5 million taken in. 2016 990 had them making just over 1.5 million. Not bad for only forming in 2015. Their mission statement alone should give all of us pause.

Mission

Our mission is to make athlete well-being the centerpiece of our nation’s sports. All athletes deserve to participate in sports are free from bullying, hazing, sexual misconduct or any form of emotional or physical abuse.

https://www.guidestar.org/profile/47-2475870

they may taken in but you don’t show what their liabilities/expenses are - looks like they maintain a balance of around $960,000.

And I know I’m multitasking here but I’m not seeing any reason to “pause” over their mission statement.

[ladyj79]

@poltroon

Honestly I also don’t think the wife of someone accused of sexual misconduct with a younger woman can be an objective source of reporting, regardless of how the case turned out.

And, unfortunately, proceedings–criminal or otherwise-- that don’t move forward don’t mean the events didn’t happen, that crimes or infractions didn’t occur, just that they could not be proven to the extent that findings could be made or sanctions levied or uphelp.

[cloudyandcallie]

@poltroon

Honestly I also don’t think the wife of someone accused of sexual misconduct with a younger woman can be an objective source of reporting, regardless of how the case turned out.

So Mrs Serio rode under Mr Serio for 12 years and then they married? Is that correct?

[poltroon]

@cloudyandcallie

So Mrs Serio rode under Mr Serio for 12 years and then they married? Is that correct?

I don’t know her and don’t know the answer to that, but I thought I’d give it a google, and look, this 4 year old petition came up under her name!

https://www.change.org/p/usef-reduce…upplement-case

Reduce USEF’s Suspension and Fine of Tommy Serio’s supplement case.

Tommy Serio received a supplement called Tranquility and called the company to be certain that it was safe to use at USEF sanctioned horse shows, before he decided to try the product. Unfortunately, the company did not ask the dating on the product, and Tommy subsequently received a positive drug test for GABA in 2 horses tested 3 months apart. USEF agreed they were remiss in not sending the results of the first test for 4 months, and had that result come in a timely fashion, there never would have been a second positive case at all.

In spite of Tommy’s cooperation and admission of using the product, USEF has fined him $8000 and suspended him for 8 months. He evn had a notarized affidavit from the veterinarian that developed the product, explaining the circumstances. This is a life changing sentence. In very recent hearings, USEF members have been given a reprieve for supplement use causing a positive drug test, so the punishment levied against Tommy is completely unjustified, in light of this.

This was an unfortunate circumstance made by an honest horseman with nearly 50 years in the industry. His friends, fellow trainers, clients and family have stood behind him in this challenging time, and will not give up until USEF agrees their penalty was unjustified.

We are pleading with the members of USEF to stand up for their right to be heard and their right to a fair and balanced hearing.

Life sure kicks this dude around.

[Denali6298]

@poltroon

I don’t know her and don’t know the answer to that, but I thought I’d give it a google, and look, this 4 year old petition came up under her name!

https://www.change.org/p/usef-reduce…upplement-case

Life sure kicks this dude around.

:lol::lol: The infamous bucket of supplements that had been lying around for 3 (or some such) years that they randomly found and fed out.

[Tackpud]

Copied from a post on FB written by someone who knows what they are talking about:

"I think a lot of people are not understanding how SafeSport came about, what happens when a complaint is made, etc. I’ve seen some ridiculous comments here!

First, SafeSport is a measure enacted by congress, and is in place over every Olympic sport’s NGB not just the horse world. It comes after the high profile Gymnastics, Ice Skating, Football etc scandals and the recognition that some people don’t do the right thing when they see that an adult in a position of power or wealth is abusing a minor (with or without “reward” like nice horses to ride) and speak up to stop it. If those who know it is happening won’t take action because it is the right thing to do, then congress decides it is time to force that action through strong consequences. What did everyone expect would happen when sports fail to police themselves?

Second, it’s not “one phone call and someone is banned for life.” The center for SafeSport takes a complaint, then decides if there is enough EVIDENCE to start an investigation. I could call them tomorrow and hate on an old trainer of ours for “retaliation” but they’d not do an investigation because there’s no PROOF of any kind. You have to have actual evidence for them to investigate.

Third, they actually DO AN INVESTIGATION and hold a hearing. The accused is absolutely aware of both the investigation and the hearing. Should the investigation and hearing result in a ban, the accused still has the right to bring further evidence and then appeal the decision if they choose. They are not just banned for life based on a quick investigation and that’s it. However the DETAILS of this investigation and hearing are not for public consumption. They are private. There may be a better way of protecting the accused during the investigation than putting their name on an interim suspension list, but we’ve yet to work out what that is.

Fourth, none of this has anything to do with USEquestrian or USHJA. The report is not made to our governing bodies, and those bodies don’t do the investigation. They may present materials or evidence that is asked for as the investigation goes along, but that’s at the behest of the center for SafeSport. This is not some system that can easily be exploited to settle petty arguments between competitors or used to destroy someone else’s barn. There has to be some actual fire behind the smoke.

Fifth, once SafeSport comes back and says “we investigated this person, we held a hearing, and we determined that this person DID, in fact abuse the victim(s) as alleged. They must be banned from your sport for life” then the USHJA/USEquestrian has NO CHOICE in the matter if they want to continue as the NGB for our sport. They must enact the ban, period. They may allow the person being banned to use their email lists to address the public at large (apparently) but they cannot take action against what SafeSport has said they must do, unfortunately.

Sixth, if someone who has been banned for life feels that SafeSport has ruined their life, business, income, reputation, or any other quality of their right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, they may file a lawsuit if they wish. Maybe that’s what someone needs to do in order to have SafeSport looked at again. Maybe that’s what is going to have to happen before the kinks are ironed out. I don’t know.

Last but not least: sexual exploitation of teens in exchange for monetary gain has NEVER been okay. Not then, not now. If an adult used the lure of things at their disposal to entice someone not mentally old enough to understand the ramifications of going along with it, they were soliciting a minor for sex. It doesn’t matter if people knew at let it happen, it was still wrong. The fact that so many people turn a blind eye and fail to protect the most vulnerable participants in our sport (and others) is why we are now saddled with SafeSport."

[Toblersmom]

As much as I appreciate the clarification, it would be nice to have a clearer source, @Tackpud, a link to the original post if you aren’t comfortable sharing the name. There’s all too much of the “Somebody told me,” “This was posted by somebody in the know,” etc. with no accountability unless you do some serious breadcrumb following, on both sides of the argument.

That said, one paragraph in this reminded me of a “clencher” in my own mind. We live in a very, very litigious society, and have for many years. SafeSport really has limited financial resources from what I can see. I think it’s absolutely hilarious that the OP pointed out a 2.5 million dollar “taken in” 990 filing as, I guess, some kind of proof of wealth and excess. Or something. The HOA for my neighboorhood has an annual operating budget over a million, and it easily goes higher if there’s some big project. Even if the numbers posted upthread are for the equine SafeSport budget only, rather than all of SafeSport, that’s a pittance to cover the very important responsibilities they are tasked with, and anybody who’s been involved with budgeting for an organization larger than a lemonade stand should understand that. It comes nowhere close to covering the cost of defending numerous lawsuits for libel, slander, defamation of character, loss of income, wrongful death in the case of Rob Gage etc. that they would surely face if they were just willy-nilly passing out suspensions and bans based on whispers and spiteful false claims. The organizers of SafeSport would need to be profoundly stupid to regularly lay themselves open to such suits that had even a whisper of basis to them, particularly to people, as in the equestrian world, that have money or monied supporters. If they were banning poor, no-name individuals left right and sideways, maybe, just maybe I could get behind the idea that SafeSport weren’t worried about legal backlash because they knew those they banned did not have the resources and support to come back at them. But they are going for Names, Names that either have their own money or sponsors/supporters with money, or just huge numbers of supporters (enough people kick in a little bit, it adds up) that they can rely on to get the resources they would need to file a suit. I’m laying odds that they won’t, because they know they don’t really have a leg to stand on.

[Toblersmom]

I wanted to put this in a separate post because it has nothing to do with my other comments and has only a very peripheral relationship to SafeSport.

As some who have followed my posts know, I am a veterinary radiologist (I don’t deal with horses professionally anymore, so don’t ask unless it’s some super-simple procedural or terminology information question or something–don’t ask on dog/cat/non-horse livestock/exotics either, that’s how I feed my family). I did my residency at the University of Wisconsin. I was peripherally involved in a project spearheaded by whatever the organizing body (OB) of the World Dairy Expo is (or was at the time). They had a variety of rules, guidelines, etc. regarding acceptable practices for the preparation and fitting of lactating dairy cows for competition. Basically, you can withhold milking, shampoo them and trim their hair (the dorsal ridge is All Important, for REASONS), and that’s about it. Anything else is considered cheating or against animal welfare (e.g. no instilling medications for mastitis because you should not be not-milking and showing a cow with mastitis) and was forbidden. Word on the street was that there were various nefarious activities regarding the udder. But the OB had no real means of detecting them, and funded a sort of Dairy Cow CSI to see if a means of detection could be figured out and reliably applied. The ones I know about most were the ones the radiology team was charged with–injection of saline at the margins of the udder to make the attachments look smooth, and instillation of a “foamy” (gas-dispersal based mastitis treatment that at the time was legal in Canada but not in the US) to make the udder look more “full” as well as smooth out the attachments. OB found a stool pigeon “fitter” who knew the typical routine and we looked with ultrasound to see if we could tell the difference between cows that had just been held out of the milking parlor and had edema (which, having lactated myself, I think is not particularly nice and should be regulated more tightly, but that’s another story), cows that had saline injections, cows that had “foamies”, combinations, etc. Bottom line is that we could tell. I don’t know what all the medicine and clinical pathology branch of the group were doing regarding re-instilling previously milked milk back into the cow, instilling another cow’s milk, instilling other fluids, etc. but they found that they could detect a lot of nefarious activities, too by chemical and cytology, even genetic, analysis of the milk and such.

Details fade, so nobody come after me with pitchforks if I misremember something. The following World Dairy Expo, people exhibiting cows were advised by the OB that the CSI group would be looking at the winners and a random but large selection of the non-winners. No consequences this year, we know you are all abiding by the rules, we just want to check to see how this thing works procedurally, etc. Something like half of the cows that were looked at had been adulterated that year, EVEN THOUGH THE EXHIBITORS HAD BEEN WARNED. Next year, when OB said they were satisfied with our sensitivity/specificity and they WOULD be exacting penalties? None. Not a cow. At least not in ways we knew about and knew how to detect.

First time you turn over a rock? You shouldn’t be surprised at the number of ugly creepy things you find.

It’s not a witch hunt. It’s cleaning house. The World Dairy Expo was like me taking canned air to the underside of my sofa and blowing out all the dust bunnies, Lego, cat toys and dead scorpions. SafeSport is like that poor guy learning he’d been eating Otter Pops that had been stored next to what was probably his dead baby sister’s corpse in the freezer all those years. (https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/30/us/missouri-infant-freezer/index.html)