How to let a client go, or maybe not

[PalmPony]

I posted this in the H/J forum, but I suppose it could really apply to any discipline or training program.

As a trainer, at what point do you draw the line and politely “fire” or set a boundary of “we need to follow a program for your safety or I cannot teach you” for a client who trailers in for lessons? And how do you go about letting said client go? Written letter? Say your program is now full with consistent students? Firm conversation? Where would you go with this as a fellow professional? My intent is not to burn bridges or tick people off, but truly from a safety standpoint (and reputation as well-this is not a match I ever would have suggested and the “training” and riding is not a reflection of how my program runs since they only lesson occasionally.) I apologize in advance for the book I have typed below…

Basic story: teen client took lessons consistently on a school horse for a few months, and was doing well wtc jumping xrails and some 2’ fences and had a couple horses at home who weren’t suitable for jumping. Family is very involved and has lots of opinions but not a high level of horse sense or horsemanship.

One horse was sold (not through me; I don’t market horses for the discipline this horse did, so I felt my sales services wouldnt have benefitted them, although I helped them formulate the ad) and they actively started looking for another horse. I offered suitable lease horses so the teen could get some more experience under her belt in this discipline before getting a green horse; they wanted to purchase. I offered sales consultations, discussed at length why it is beneficial to take a trainer, and sent my contract along. Also offered that I knew of many suitable horses we could try within the area and even had one for sale in barn that we could try in a lesson, even just to see if a young tb was something she would be capable on (my sale horse was quiet and coursing 2’3" and is already used for some advanced lessons) Contract was never signed although numerous random sale videos of unsuitable horses (for this rider and her goals) were sent to me, which I offered to give my opinion on at my hourly lesson rate or at the start of her next lesson (during lesson time). Family ignored this offer. Teen was also offered working student hours in my program; work in the barn, learn something, earn hours towards an extra lesson. Was told that teens time would be better spent at home with new horse when they bought one. This rider does not know much in the way of horsemanship.

Anyway, All suggestions were ignored, and a very young, very green horse was quickly purchased without a pre purchase exam from a tb placement agency. A comment was made by the parents how much they trusted the agency. I am unsure of how much family fibbed about “being in my program” (they lesson 1x a week and do not board with me, and didnt have any plans to put this horse in training with me to my knowledge) or what kind of a tb agency would place a very green horse with a young green rider.

Rider asks to trailer in for a lesson with new horse. Surprise to me; did not know they bought a horse!. Rider and family and horse show up, and I ask details on horse. How old/when did he race last/when was he gelded/any injuries/ how much off track training did he receive at the placement agency etc…the answers were not positive considering rider is a young teen jumping 2’ on a good day with a patient, responsive school horse.

Horse is under 4, had some sort of unknown ankle/fetlock fracture, unsure when gelded, had a year of healing/let down, but no current rads or pre purchase, rider was not permitted to ride him when they went to see him (I was not present or aware of this visit) so she had not yet sat on horse although they watched someone at tb placement agency ride him that day. They had also had him less than a week at this point.

The saddle they purchased did not fit him or child at all, bridle was suitable (I offered to help them measure for a tree size/give number of several saddle fitters/etc…they went and bought a brand new cheap saddle from the local tack store without measuring him or rider, which sits on his withers.

Moving on…I opted to lunge him because rider did not know how or the benefits of lunging and he is a)young, hot, and green as grass. B)wanted to see soundness and c) frankly a bit dangerous on the ground and am past the point in life of risking my neck unneccesarily. Also, the saddle issue.

it is worth mentioning as well that Rider and family adore a certain famous natural horsemanship trainer whose practices I do not agree with and said that is the plan they wanted to follow with groundwork. I had voiced that videos are great, but not a substitute for a live trainer with a consistent program in this situation.

While tacking, young hot tb proceeded to act like a young green unmannered tb does…pawing, biting, distracted, (also tried to kick me when I asked him to not smash me against the side of the trailer) etc. Child and family look at him in horror. “He was so sweet at home” they say.

We lunged, and worked a bit on the ground and honestly I would love to take this cute guy on as a project for myself but he is 100% not suitable for this young rider. Ended up lunging ok for child after I worked with him for about 30 min but she had never lunged before and I was right behind her helping. He is very weak, and for whatever reasons, whether weakness, balance, greenness, or any plethora of reasons, never showed a true canter, both directions volunteered to cross canter, although at this point, this is just another thing to add to the laundry list of worries.

I didnt hear from rider or family for a couple months and now they are asking for a lesson. I try to accommodate all levels to the extent that I can and offer a safe, positive learning environment, but I feel that I cant offer that for this rider with this horse, since the family has refused to take advice or suggestion time and time again. We run a high-quality program and I tailor my lessons to what each horse and rider need, but at the end of the day, I am frankly more interested in teaching clients who listen to my advice.

I do not want this rider (or horse!) having an accident at my facility because they chose to do their own thing every time and schedule lessons inconsistently. At what point do I draw the line and refuse to teach the child? For me, this answer doesnt help the horse or rider, but I am also not interested in talking to deaf ears anymore. I hate to give an ultimatum but would like to sit down and have a conversation about committing to a program(any program! Whether it be 1x a week with homework or 5days a week) for the sake of the horse and the safety of their child or that maybe they would be better suited to another trainers program.

[rideoff]

As a trainer who has been in a very similar situation with a young teen who purchased a totally unsuitable 3 year old off the track without any guidance, I think the best move is to tell them either in person or on the phone, as tactfully as possible, exactly what you laid out in your post.

I don’t think it’s really an “ultimatum” to explain to your clients that for the safety of all parties, you need a commitment to being in a program to continue teaching her.

I was in more or less the same situation (right down to the youtube trainer and ill-fitting saddle) and the teen in question eventually decided to sell the horse and it ended up with me as a project, although as a side note I would be wary of taking on a project without a thorough PPE.

If the parents called you to arrange a lesson, they are seeking your professional opinion and you shouldn’t feel guilty about letting them go if they can’t agree to the terms you set, although of course having been in this situation I know that is easier said than done!

Best of luck and hopefully the parents realize they are overfaced with this horse and agree to work with you on your terms.

[SuzieQNutter]

I feel for you.

Only because you said you thought you would like to take him on as a project horse, you might put in writing that at this point of time unless the horse is kept at your place and put into training with teen still having lessons on the school horse, until you think it is safe for her to get on him, you suggest they find another trainer.

You could have a talk with them first. You never know a neighbour or other family person might have stepped in and they may have been riding him and may have a different partnership to what you saw, but like you I doubt that.

[PalmPony]

@rideoff

As a trainer who has been in a very similar situation with a young teen who purchased a totally unsuitable 3 year old off the track without any guidance, I think the best move is to tell them either in person or on the phone, as tactfully as possible, exactly what you laid out in your post.

I don’t think it’s really an “ultimatum” to explain to your clients that for the safety of all parties, you need a commitment to being in a program to continue teaching her.

I was in more or less the same situation (right down to the youtube trainer and ill-fitting saddle) and the teen in question eventually decided to sell the horse and it ended up with me as a project, although as a side note I would be wary of taking on a project without a thorough PPE.

If the parents called you to arrange a lesson, they are seeking your professional opinion and you shouldn’t feel guilty about letting them go if they can’t agree to the terms you set, although of course having been in this situation I know that is easier said than done!

Best of luck and hopefully the parents realize they are overfaced with this horse and agree to work with you on your terms.

Thank you, I appreciate the input! I probably should have mentioned, although he is the TYPE I would enjoy, after hearing what I did about his fracture and dad saying “oh he had his ankles cleaned out” (what?!) With no vet records, I wouldnt touch him with a 10 foot pole. And wouldnt accept him into my sales program without a thorough prepurchase prior either!

[OneTwoMany]

It is quite reasonable to “fire” a client or refuse business from a client that isn’t fitting in with your program. At what point “firing” a client is the best solution, is really up to you.

One thing I would suggest is to be very clear with the client why the relationship isn’t working and under what circumstances it could work. For example, if the problem is the lack of a program, then explain why a lack of a program is an issue (safety, professional reputation, inability to produce consistent results, etc.) and suggest that if they decide they can commit to a program of lessoning 1x a week (for example), you would be able to help them.

It makes perfect sense to have this conversation in person, but if you are leaving the door open for them to remain a client (or come back as a client) if certain objectives are met, I would consider detailing the criteria in a follow-up e-mail. Sometimes people hear one thing during a “live” conversation but will better comprehend the totality of the issue if there is something written down for future reference.

I suspect you’ll breathe a sign of relief after you have “the talk” and wonder why you didn’t do it sooner. Best of luck!

[TheJenners]

Having had these clients back when I did such a thing, go ahead and fire. It most likely will not change and they (parents or children or both) will consistently not listen, go behind your back to other trainers/training methods/sales barns, and will not magically become regular, appreciative, paying clients of your program

At the best, they will listen, comprehend, and understand your concerns and either request you work with child on school horses while she “works with” the new horse, will ask you to work with both, or ask you to work with green horse and child separately but still not want to address to green horse issue, and someone might get hurt. At the worse, you will have the talk and they will either commit to the plan while backdooring you to other trainers to find the opinion and answer they want (or come on COTH and do it :lol: ) or bad talk you for various whatever reasons, such as you only want sales commissions and won’t help people who help themselves, you have an agenda, you’re taking advantage, etc.

Explain that you have a program, that during their months’ absence your client list had filled, that you are focusing on those with clear goals who accept trainer feedback and value trainer experience and expertise, and that at this time you had already cleared them from your client list and do not have room.

[meupatdoes]

Say you’ll take them, but only on a prepaid contract of at least four interactions per week.

[mvp]

The easy way out is a white lie: "Great to hear from you, but I’m full up with clients. Sorry I can’t help. Best wishes with your project gelding.

The more professional way is to tell a kind form of the truth: “I can’t help you with this young, green horse in a way that will be good for him or for you as a haul-in client. I am truly sorry. I hope you can find the right pro to help you.”

That is the bottom line, right? You don’t think you can keep the kid safe. That’s bad for the horse, too, since he’ll get dumped after the kid does. You might be able to make this horse suitable for the kid some day, if he were in full training (and also a whole bunch of other things about this family were to change). But as things stand now, they are trying to hire you to do a job you can’t do. So you aren’t firing them so much as you are not taking the job they have offered you.

[mvp]

The easy way out is a white lie: “Great to hear from you, but I’m full up with clients. Sorry I can’t help. Best wishes with your project gelding.”

The more professional way is to tell a kind form of the truth: “I can’t help you with this young, green horse in a way that will be good for him or for you as a haul-in client. I am truly sorry. I hope you can find the right pro to help you.”

You can add information or helpful advice on to that as you think will be half-way well-received and productive. If your main goal is to extricate yourself from these clients, you don’t need to bother. If you do want to help them on the next phase of their journey, make helpful suggestions about what kind of training they will need or who in the area you would refer them to.

That is the bottom line, right? You don’t think you can keep the kid safe. That’s bad for the horse, too, since he’ll get dumped after the kid does. You might be able to make this horse suitable for the kid some day, if he were in full training (and also a whole bunch of other things about this family were to change). But as things stand now, they are trying to hire you to do a job you can’t do. So you aren’t firing them so much as you are not taking the job they have offered you.

I have had a client like this and I got myself fired in a way that was OK in the end (since, like you, I really didn’t want the impending accident to happen on my watch). But I could have done better and had the client not leave on bad terms. That’s how I learned what I would do differently next time. The “bad terms” thing was my fault for finally, one day, “taking my client’s inventory” about all the stuff she had done wrong in buying the super-green (but saintly) horse she did after we discussed what it would be like if she did that and how much time and money she’d spend in training in order to feel safe on him.

[comingback]

They didn’t contact you for a couple of months and then called for a lesson? Agree with mvp, sorry, my schedule is full and I cannot take on any more.

This is absolutely not going to end well for you if you keep them as clients. And they will be a time and energy suck. Time and energy that could be spent on those that are active participants in your program.

[ClassyJumper]

If you are still okay/willing to work with the girl and horse… I would just tell the family you require a once a week commitment to continue lessoning with you. Charge a months worth of lessons at the beginning of the month.

If they dont want to do that (which it sounds like they dont)… then your not the bad guy, its their decision.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

From what you are saying, even with a program, this is an unsafe horse for this child. It sounds like there may be a soundness issue, which, coupled with expected greenness and what may be his natural temperament, might mean that even with regular training from you, it might be difficult to correct the horse’s issues.

If the horse was relatively sound, and since you like him, I’d suggest asking to board the horse for a bit at your place and give him constant, correct training. Without him being there, it sounds like any training you give him while working with the family will be untrained at home. The family sounds like it has poor listening skills (to put it politely).

I don’t think the horse sounds dangerous, but it does sound like a dangerous situation, and even if it might not do any good, for my own peace of mind I would tactfully but strongly communicate the risks and what you think the family should do, based on your professional opinion.

[Foxglove]

Agree that you and the client should part ways --lots of good advice here. On a side note, a girl in our 4-H club did a similar action --bought an OTTB from a woman who picked such horses up from the track --no retraining --after a couple of years, the girl --who was a nice, kind girl, but whole family was in over their heads --no horse experience --asked my daughter to work with the horse and sell it. (DD was a 3-Day rider). We looked at the horse and decided to do. We cured the basic issues (wouldn’t load,wouldn’t stand) and DD decided to keep the horse (we paid what they asked). After 5 years and making it to Intermediate level --DD entered law school. At that point she sold the horse and paid for the first year with the purchase price. So while the current situation is probably not workable, these things have a way of resolving —oh, the girl? Never did get another horse, but did follow DD into law school!

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

From what you are saying, even with a program, this is an unsafe horse for this child. There may be a soundness issue, which, coupled with expected greenness and what may be his natural temperament, might mean that even with regular training from you, it might be difficult to correct the horse’s issues.

If the horse was relatively sound, and since you like him, I’d suggest asking to board the horse for a bit at your place and give him constant, correct training. Without him being there, it sounds like any training you give him while working with the family will be untrained at home. The family sounds like it has poor listening skills (to put it politely).

I don’t think the horse sounds dangerous, but it does sound like a dangerous situation, and even if it might not do any good, for my own peace of mind I would tactfully but strongly communicate the risks and what you think the family should do, based on your professional opinion.

[Limerick2017]

Do you have a stall for this horse? If you do, why not say you would love to work with them but he needs 60 days of consistent work with you in order to get anything out of lessons. He sounds like he needs fitness before anything else. They will likely say no but they may say yes. And then you can truly help the horse.

[Foxglove]

Agree that you and the client should part ways --lots of good advice here. On a side note, a girl in our 4-H club did a similar action --bought an OTTB from a woman who picked such horses up from the track --no retraining --after a couple of years, the girl --who was a nice, kind girl, but whole family was in over their heads --no horse experience --asked my daughter to work with the horse and sell it. (DD was a 3-Day rider). We looked at the horse and decided to do. We cured the basic issues (wouldn’t load,wouldn’t stand) and DD decided to keep the horse (we paid what they asked). After 5 years and making it to Intermediate level --DD entered law school. At that point she sold the horse and paid for the first year with the purchase price. So while the current situation is probably not workable, these things have a way of resolving —oh, the girl? Never did get another horse, but did follow DD into law school!

[hoopoe]

My first thought is “They are just not that in to you” It sounds like they came to you for some superficial lessons that they perceive enough for her to proceed forward on her own.

They clearly do not respect you nor your professional status. I am willing to bet they defend their choices and roads by saying professionals are only in it for the money.

I would write a letter proposing what you feel is needed for the health and safety of all involved. Include a stipulation of a vet exam and evaluation of the old injury. This is an issue of safety and animal welfare. If they want to get on board, after they see your well worded plan, thats great, if not then good luck in your journey with this horse.

I would not suggest other professionals to help them.

[Classic]

Great post by MVP. And this is a client, that if you “let” them go, I would not suggest other professionals, so as not to put your trainer friends in the same boat. This, so far, is the type of family that is uneducable. Some stay that way. They may come back around after learning the very hard way. And yes, they clearly do not respect you or your professional status. Frankly, that is a hard one to get past. And, that old saying is so often true - green horse black and blue rider.

[mroades]

Do you regularly take ship in lessons? This feels like they aren’t going to listen to your advice so I would offer them boarding and lessons but no more ship in lessons. That will likely send them on their way

[mvp]

@Classic

Great post by MVP. And this is a client, that if you “let” them go, I would not suggest other professionals, so as not to put your trainer friends in the same boat. This, so far, is the type of family that is uneducable. Some stay that way. They may come back around after learning the very hard way. And yes, they clearly do not respect you or your professional status. Frankly, that is a hard one to get past. And, that old saying is so often true - green horse black and blue rider.

OP, the bolded part was something I thought of after I posted and it’s something that my own experience taught me.

Looking back, I could see all the signs that my “I’ll do it my way… and hire you do to it my way” client would not be educable enough by me in the time I’d know her. I think she had come some distance from her first decision to get back into horses as an adult. And we spent a lot of time talking about what to expect or how to look for a horse before she bought the one she did (foregoing a PPE). So I thought she’d be a the “normal degree” of new client who was paying me to help her improve her horsemanship from what she had.

But what I saw instead was someone who didn’t want to keep improving, but who had just about reached her limit of what kind of effort, money and commitment she wanted to put into horse ownership. I will think about this more and see if I can see any further signs of someone who had hired a pro and bought a horse in order to “get to the next level of owning the project horse” versus “buying the project horse as a basis for continuing on.”

The one thing my client had in common with your family is that they saw the purchasing a horse as the quickest way to getting to some goal. Like you, I tried to find a horse for my client to lease and explained why this was an awesome idea (i.e.-- the horse you need now will not be the horse you need in 2 years). But she really wanted to own whatever horse she put effort and money into. A minute later, she realized she was scared of her (saintly) green horse and wanted to sell him ASAP and probably quit riding.

I think the folks who insist on getting to a big goal like buying their own greenie and who ditch professional help exactly at the point they need it most are uneducable. Maybe they will not be so forever, but if they have turned down all good (and life-saving) advice so far, you have to get out of the way and let them learn for themselves. And who knows? Maybe when the young horse is “bad” and gets sent to a cowboy to get fixed, their experience plus that guy will be able to educate them.

Teach who you can, where you can. But if the student is not ready, get out of the way so that they can learn when and how they will. That’s not your business; you can only offer the best you have.