You mentioned not wanting to burn bridges, but what bridge/where does it lead with these folks? It sounds like a bridge that needs to be burned, for your reputation. I’ve moved around a lot, and at different boarding barns, I’ve seen these people. With the parents telling the child they know better, and the famous NH person likely badmouthing any legit training as abusive or unenlightened, I’m not sure how you break through. Most reputable TB places will offer returns on mismatches - if they are struggling, that could be an option??? I am mainly worried for the poor horse. I love OTTBs and most aren’t that bad, but need a knowledgeable person to help them adjust/learn. Sadly, when they are cheap, they can end up in bad hands.
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This is an easy one. Don’t let the rider get on the horse until the horse is standing quietly and calmly.
95% of the original post was about how the client did not take the trainer’s advice, and the horse is not suitable for the rider, and very little about how the trainer would go about working with this horse. Most competent trainers realize that you work with the horse you have that day. I have absolutely no problem working on the ground with a horse until the horse is in the frame of mind that I can safely get on. Sounds like the OP is willing to skip these steps and let the client dictate what happens. I’d be showing the client how to get the horse to calm down and stand still so he can be tacked and mounted. Once the hour is up, the hour is up regardless of how much time is spent (or not) in the saddle. Or even if the saddle made it to the horse’s back. If the client is displeased with the amount of riding time, they can fire the trainer. His soundness issues are not the trainer’s business.
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We have a somewhat similar situation at my barn - daughter that trailered in for lessons on her pony, have their own farm. Outgrew pony, budget constraints = OTTB that really isn’t the best option for daughter. To their benefit they have put the horse at the barn for full time training a few times but then it goes home and goes back to square 1. They need to keep the horse with trainer for at least a year IMO but whatever.
The only thing I would suggest would be - if the OP is willing to take the horse in for full time training for 60-90 days to suggest that to the client, otherwise, I think I would have to let them know that unless they put horse and rider in a program that you feel you cannot appropriately train them. With the rider mentioned above. being at our barn meant that from time to time, she could get on a schoolmaster for some solid jumping lessons and flat work that she couldn’t do with her own horse. that should they want to commit to being in your program, you’d welcome them back anytime (i.e. not to burn the bridge).
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Some people are very motivated by a “good deal.” Perhaps a package of ten lessons (buy 9 get 1 free) type deal-- with an expiration date-- will show them what a consistent program can do. Or something like a new boarder special: full training and lesson package 1/2 price for new boarders for 60 days. You don’t have to advertise it, just offer it to these particular clients… If they decline, that’s on them, and any mention of ship-in lessons can be countered with your generous “special offer” still stands. Just like horses, make the right thing easy and the wrong thing hard!
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I once had to walk out of a client’s barn after he told me that the avulsed quarter of his horse’s hoof would be “fine” once the farrier put a shoe and some epoxy on it. All I needed to do was hang around to sedate the beast for this procedure.
You are in a similar situation. Somebody who knows very little about how to do what you are a pro at is trying to get you to do something you find incorrect, if not dangerous.
And of course, if and when the whole thing ends in a glorious trainwreck, it will be your fault and not theirs.
You also appear to be a decent human being for trying to find some way to educate these people.
I’m afraid you will not succeed at that, but good on you for trying.
I would walk away as politely as possible.
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I was on the receiving end of something similar and can tell you what my trainer did. I had a horse that I’d owned for a few years. Fun horse, talented but definitely had behavior problems. I was fairly successful in mitigating them (&seeking professional help) to the extent that I could haul in for lessons and show competitively, but there was always the threat of the rearing/bucking/refusing to move switch going off. Since I hauled in, trainer had never seen horse behave that way, through a combination of me knowing how to not piss the horse off and just dumb luck.
Long story short, after the horse showed her true colors my trainer just laid it out for me. She said she was concerned about my safety, said the horse was trying to warn me and I wasn’t listening and said that she would not continue to teach me while on that horse. She said I was welcome to board there but that she could not ethically be involved in teaching me and that horse. As an experienced rider, this made sense to me and no one had ever been blunt with me in that way. It was fairly eye opening and I am still grateful to her because I’m sure that at some point I would have gotten injured or the horse would have injured someone else.
I don’t know if the beginner in your situation would react as I did, however just know that you’re not alone in these difficult situations. There comes a point where niceties simply aren’t an option anymore.
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I agree…tell them politely but point blank you do not feel it is ANYONE’S best interest to truck this horse in, best for all would be 1. a thorough vetting(DO NOT recommend which vet) and 2. IF he is cleared for what they want to do with him they should find some one that will come to them or send him out for training again apologize profusely for not having the time or space to do either and again DO NOT make recommendations. Say daughter is welcome to lesson on schoolies so that she progresses to the point she will be safe and have fun on OTTB if/when he is trained up.
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An earlier poster suggested a “white lie”. Please be careful about lies and fibs regardless of the color. You never know when it will come back to haunt you. The family could have a wealthy friend ask about your program only to be told, by the family you are “full”. Or the family could hear about the next client you take on and realize they were being lied to when you said you were “full”. Once a lie is uncovered, you can count on plenty of bad reviews. Not good for business in any situation. Better to stick to the truth.
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And, forgot to mention in my previous post the word liability. In liability policies re: riding, the word neglect is ever-present. A trainer can be considered neglectful in an accident if it was evident the mount was dangerous for that specific rider.
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As an instructor and training business owner/operator, I would tell them that due to the horse’s training level and the rider’s skill level, you would want the horse for 90 days of training first and then 6 months of weekly lessons after that, but that she is welcome to take consistent lessons on a school horse as always. If they can’t commit to those time frames and training then honestly, there is nothing you can do.
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Since the parents you’re dealing with seem unable to grasp the realities of the green (possibly unsound) horse/green rider combination, you could try using the car/ new driver metaphor.
"Pretend you’re looking for a used car for your daughter’s first car. Would you buy her a car with bad brakes, a sticky accelerator, bald tires, a loose steering wheel and a few unexplained fluid leaks?
Or would you look for a solid older car with up to date maintenence records and a clean Carfax?
The first car is what you’ve bought in horse form. Sure, that car can possibly be fixed by a good mechanic (trainer), but it will take time and money, and it might have a cracked block and never be road safe.
The second car is safe for your daughter now. It costs more because it has already been maintained (trained) so it is safe and roadworthy.
There are trainers who focus on retraining racehorses, but it isn’t something I do in my program. I’m happy to have your daughter continue her lessons on my school horses."(If you are.)
While I do not teach or train (except my own beasts), I’ve seen this explanation be a light bulb moment for many a starry-eyed parent of a horse crazy child.
Good luck with these folks, and trust your gut. This is not a can of worms I’d want to open.
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One can not live another person’s life. The family have made their decisions, based on their requirements, expectations and knowledge. You offered professional advice and assistance but it has been consistently ignored. Now just politely walk away. There are other clients who will listen and learn. You do not need this family. Say that you have sufficient clients in consistent training and you do not believe you have anything further to offer them. Thank you for your previous custom, good bye.
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I would not lie to them and tell them your program is full.
That lie is not worth it for many reasons. One of which is that the OP sounds like they want to be an honest trainer. These people might not listen but that does not mean the OP should not be honest with them.
OP, I know you have had many conversations with them but have you ever talked to them (parents and child) about what their end goal is with this child and this horse? Maybe that could lead to you explaining that the only safe way for child and horse to get from where they are to where they want to go is to do XYZ. If they are not willing to do XYZ then tell them that you are simply not willing to work with them because it is too dangerous for this kid to be working with this horse with out a program.
If people hate you for this then the problem is the people, not you or your program.
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No to all of this. If the people went out on their own, and bought a totally unsuitable horse that has potential soundness and behavioral issues, the OP should say thanks, but no thanks. Why should she risk life and limb on a horse that she didn’t represent or approve of, for a client who frankly doesn’t care about her business. And yes, his soundness is the trainers business if she were to ride it, as an unsound horse is not safe to ride.
Clients like that are not worth the risk to yourself, your business, and anyone around you
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I would tell them that the horse is not safe for the daughter, and that the two are a bad situation, and an accident waiting to happen. I would not lie and say your program is full, or anything else, but the honest truth. Put it in writing, and keep a copy.
If you allow this pair back on your property, then when the inevitable accident happens, you will be sued. The most clueless people are quick to blame others for their mistakes. The family have shown you exactly who they are, so believe them. It will be the buying, and saddle situation repeated over and over.
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This. Offer them a situation that you can live with and if they don’t take you up on it, explain that you cannot train the daughter. And suggest they have a vet evaluate the horse’s soundness and suitability for the job they want.
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The OP is not taking lessons on the horse, the owner is. And the OP should not let the owner get on the horse until the horse is under complete control. Hopefully the OP, who is apparently a trainer, knows how to get a horse to stand still and relax. If not, you are correct, and the OP should not be working with this horse at all.
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I read all of this and reading between the lines, it really sounded to me like a big hang up for you is that the parents went and did this without consulting you. It sounds like most of your frustrations stem from the parents, not the child.
I get that this is the H/J model but I could never follow it.
Is the child teachable, at all?
I’m not a H/Jer so take my post with a grain of salt… but I’m from an eventer and Pony Club background, and I’ve probably dealt with more than the average person’s fair share of “teenager + young OTTB”… Most of the people attracted to the Pony Club model are parents who are trying to make their child’s hobby work on a very threadbare budget.
It’s practically considered a rite of passage for many teens in my discipline to get their first OTTB. Teen + OTTB does not always equal unsuitable disaster, even when both are young. There’s many ways to make a young OTTB work with a young rider, provided the rider is teachable/trainable. The OTTBs are almost always teachable :encouragement:
If teens were not able to make young OTTBs work we’d have an absolute dearth of available horses for young riders and Pony Clubbers in the US…
Looking at this from the other side, I wonder if finances don’t play a huge part in this. It’s incredibly expensive to be in a program and there are some things you say that make me think money is a motivating factor (keeping horse at home, going through ad agency, etc). You mention they lesson once a week, is that not enough to be in your program? If it’s not, that’s fine too. It’s your right and prerogative to establish just what kind of client[s] you want in your program, and if they don’t fit the bill that’s on them, not you.
You mentioned you could lunge the TB… That to me sounds like it has some basics. Most OTTBs don’t come with lunging in their repertoire. Either the girl taught him, or the agency did.
You didn’t mention anything the horse did specifically that made him unsuitable (other than being rude on the ground), so I don’t have any advice there… but there are ways to help the daughter, even though the parents are not listening to you. This really sounds like a bigger issue is with the parents, over the daughter, so if you had a bleeding heart and wanted to keep the daughter in your program I agree with others about offering a 60-90 day program to help daughter with her new mount. You would be surprised how quickly horses can turn around in the right program.
My take is, you’ve seen this horse / rider pair once, and the horse was off property. I might want to see the horse/rider pair again, before I wrote them off for good. That is, if you want to keep the daughter in the program.
But it sounds like, from your post, maybe you’re not experienced with OTTBs - which, in that case, it may be better to send her to other trainers to help her, too.
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If you’re nervous about having her ship in, why don’t you go over to her place and see how they’re doing at home? You may be pleasantly surprised.
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Bolded is mine.
Some horses are terrors off-property until they get used to it. My 4yo OTTB was teaching beginner lessons at 3 (straight off the track) because she’s so quiet (preface: that was before I owned her) and kind. Off property, at least for the first 10-15 minutes, she is a holy terror. Of course she’ll get better, but she’s only four and I can count on one hand how many times she’s been to a new place since I got her. Additionally, when I first got her, she had no concept of lunging and no concept of personal space. She is extremely safe to be ridden and forgives her riders their mistakes, but if you saw her off property for the first time, you probably would think she was unbroke and nuts.
The horse you saw was a baby OTTB who had just been taken off property (probably for the first time since he ended up at the placement agency) who possibly had very little groundwork done with him and who might not have been lunged much before (or at all). You mentioned that the family was horrified about some of his behavior, stating that he didn’t do that at home. Perhaps he DOESN’T do it at home. Perhaps he is a decent little horse and kind enough to forgive the rider for her errors. Perhaps he isn’t.
But regardless, it’s your program and your business. You can run it how you like and if you do not want to teach this pair, then that is perfectly acceptable. I personally, if I had the time and inclination, would at least have them send me a video of him being ridden at home (and charge some sort of fee for your time!) or go over there and attempt a lesson.
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