These people have already demonstrated, through multiple actions, that they are currently uninterested in the education you provide.
BELIEVE THEM.
You are not responsible for the mess they are in, but you will be implicated if they are in your program, because they will not follow directions.
if you want to give it a shot, make them sign a 90 day contract for full training, or nothing.
I personally would write something (slightly edited) along these lines:
Dear Person With Fingers In Her Ears, Singing LA-LA-LA,
After having a chance to assess the pairing of your new horse and your child, I feel I need to bow out of the equation.
I do not believe this is a safe partnership, given the current skill level of both of the young beings involved.
Your daughter has potential to become a good rider, however this road is not the one to success.
My professional opinion is that your daughter is over-horsed, and it is unlikely for her to progress safely with this horse. Since safety is paramount for me in my role as a mentor for children, I will not be available for coaching.
I wish you well in your future Equestrian endeavors,
Person who is afraid she will be sued by your insurance company when your child is in a coma.
I was thinking the same thing. It isn’t clear if the primary issue is a lack of a program or the parents choosing not to follow all the advice that was shared with them.
I also agree with this.
When I was young, I begged my parents endlessly for a horse. They finally relented when I agreed to get a part time job after school to pay for the hay and grain. I convinced my brother and sister to lend me their savings so I could afford the $800 purchase price. We had a small farmette and horsey lived with our sheep and chickens. There was no PPE. Who knew they existed? He came with a saddle, bridle, no brakes, limited steering and early stage navicular. I was 14.
My experience with horses up to that point was lots of fictional “Black Stallion” type books and a few rides at the local dude ranch. I used to take this grade horse out in the fields behind our house. He always bolted when we made the turn for home. I was too inexperienced to know this wasn’t the way it was supposed to be. One day we turned for home, he took off at a gallop like usual, but this day he got me off and as luck would have it I landed on a ledge of slate that was jutting out of the ground. I blacked out for a minute or two. My mother was frantic when the horse arrived home without me.
Shortly thereafter, Mom and Dad managed to scrape money together for a back yard trainer to come and give me weekly lessons. Both of my parents worked and I know there wasn’t a lot of extra $$ floating around.
Morale of the story is, to an outsider, my parents may have seemed ignorant about horses, and they were. But they didn’t know they were ignorant and their young teenage daughter was talking them into things that maybe she shouldn’t have.
OP, there might be a little of that going on here. I.e. daughter is horse crazy and parents are trying to indulge her without breaking the bank. It wouldn’t be the first time.
“I’m sorry but I wont be accepting any students right now who can’t commit to lessons at least x times per week. Here are my available days/times. What works for your schedule?”
I definitely know teens who ended up with greener OTTBs than they really had the skills to handle who made it work, although they did have the input of regular, supportive trainers. I also agree that the uncertainty in lunging and misbehaving off-property isn’t necessarily indicative of the horse’s true nature.
But the fact that the horse has trouble holding a canter in either direction because of what the trainer thinks is a soundness issue, the new saddle doesn’t appear to fit the horse properly, and the family doesn’t seem to value a trainer’s input to investigate either matter further suggests that they aren’t open to input. All the training in the world won’t matter if the horse doesn’t have the equipment (sound legs and an appropriate saddle) to benefit from it; and an hour or two of any training is unlikely to counteract all the other hours the clients may spend ignoring the advice of a trainer.
Either way, this isn’t a good fit and there’s no shame in severing the relationship. I still think it’s important for the trainer to articulate these concerns to the parents, however. You never know, in six months, they may change their minds. Especially since this is a minor and a young horse, and the experiences they have together–even if they don’t have an actual mishap–are likely to leave a long imprint.
I get this approach - just beware of tone and definitives and how “post-happy” dissatisfied people get these days. If you’re going to write anything, break it down into individual pieces and make sure nothing can be twisted/construed to make it sound like you’re advocating they dump their horse or give up on the animal.
I look back at over-horsed friends that managed to survive, overcome and succeed and it became “can you believe so-and-so told me to sell him” or “called him hopeless”. It has actually tarnished reputations.
As a client who had a similar situation: the trainer tried to be nice and share concerns in an oblique way. “I’m not sure this is the right horse for you.” And I was too star-struck to understand he was worried for
my safety. In hindsight, it
sounds like a clear warning, lol!
My point is being clear about your
boundaries and concerns is a kindness. I eventually got the message and really appreciated it. And am alive and well because of it.
I was also on the receiving end of this situation when I was a teenager. While we bought our horse through a trainer and were in a regular program, the horse had a belligerent mean streak. I was able to ride him and show him, but at times he would become quite dangerous and bite, kick, act out, etc…
We sent this horse to a renowned trainer. That trainer told us that he would not commit to training the horse, rather, he would prefer to spend 1-2 weeks to first evaluate the potential and would then let us know what, if anything, he could do. After a week he called my mom and told her he would not let his own child ride this horse (child was a very experienced nationally ranked decorated and talented rider). That was all we needed to hear. Horse came home and we ended up finding him a new home where he ended up being very happy, and I moved on to a new horse where I was able to find success.
I think honesty is the best route and sometimes the news needs to be delivered in plain English so it is very clear. If this is a barn with other child riders, then a simple “I wouldn’t put my most advanced rider on this horse” if the OP doesn’t have a child herself would suffice, as that is what she has described.
As for taking the horse on, I would do what the trainer for us did. I would first require and evaluation period to assess how bad it is. I would not want to take this type of horse on for 90 days if there is no real future.
As for the “fracture,” maybe it had OCD surgery? Horse would definitely need to be vetted for soundness before accepting it for the 1 week evaluation. Safety for both the horse and rider is key.
I would also be concerned about any legal issues that might result if the OP was not honest about the situation.
Or maybe they cant afford it. Maybe the suggestions the OP is suggesting are outside of their budget. BTDT! Not to play Devil’s Adovcate too heartily but I guess I’m already down that path…
I’m coming from the other side as that kid –
As a 11 y/o I had an 8 y/o TB that my parents purchased dirt cheap off the track, for me to ride in H/Jers. We swapped to eventing shortly thereafter, for a lot of reasons related to money. My parents were always very supportive of me, but couldn’t come close to affording to have me in a “program”. To offset this my father (construction worker/carpenter) built a barn in their front yard, and we kept the horses at home. I was one of the “once a month” lessoners at this new barn. About a year into this my then-instructor gave me the Alpo Speech about my current TB being “unsuitable”, and of course it came with a caveat: there were other ($$$$$) horses for sale in the barn we could buy and/or lease and she’d be happy to find me a new horse so I could show with the other girls on the team. I remember leaving that lesson in tears, because it really hammered home I could never afford that. That OTTB was never unsuitable or dangerous. He just wasn’t competitive or fancy. He was honest, and made a great little packer for my younger sisters. He just wasn’t the horse that would win ribbons. My parents were really unhappy with this, and they told the instructor “This is the horse we have, and this is the horse we’re paying you to work with.”
There was always something: buying this blanket/show cooler to fit in, buying this brand of tack, buying this type of tote. Having this brand of saddle, having this type of saddle pad… To be part of the “show team” you had to have XYZ number of lessons a week, and you were expected to pay $$$ to be trucked to the (often very far away) show (my parents and I always drove ourselves/our horses, because it was significantly cheaper, stayed in cheap hotels because it was cheaper, etc). I found myself quickly priced out of this barn, and not even for the lessons. Just the amount of “barn culture” you had to buy into…
I remember my instructor asking why I didn’t want to be part of the barn culture. Talk about a reality check! Some of the things I remember this barn wanting me/parents to pay for was so wildly unrealistic - like braiding, for example… I could braid myself, and it wouldn’t cost me $100…
Then I found Pony Club, and met my now-instructor, who came to my parent’s property to teach because she knew I couldn’t afford a program, and she never cared as long as I showed up ready to learn and I did what was best for my horse. She’s still my instructor over 20 years later, and has made a huge difference in a lot of horse-poor people’s lives for being in it genuinely, for the horses and people, and not for the money… but she didn’t have a business to run, and I can see why someone in OP’s shoes would be forced down a different path here.
My point being, a lot of conscious decisions by parents are made because of money. Until we know more specifics I wouldn’t be saying this team is “untrainable”.
It may be OP’s suggestions are not within the parent’s budget. Example I can think of that is very common - parents being told they need to buy the en vogue saddle (such as Antares, Tad Coffin, etc) when a Pessoa would work just fine…
For the record it wouldn’t alarm me that a fresh OTTB couldn’t hold a canter perfectly on a lunge line. That’s normal for a horse that has very limited amount of schooling on carrying themselves properly in a smaller enclosure.
OP really didn’t mention anything that stuck out as wildly unsuitable to me. A big part of her post was about how the parent’s didn’t listen to her and bought a horse without involving her – with very little meat about what actually made the OTTB unsuitable such as his education or temperament - which right now is a mystery, since it sounds like OP has seen the horse once and has never actually ridden him. The daughter/parents have horses at home which means they have some level of basic horse-keeping skills. OP doesn’t mention how much the horses she offered were, or if they were actually within the parent’s budgets…
The parents are capable of understanding your words, kept short and simple. Explain that as a professional, young person/young horse is not a situation that you would ever recommend because of safety concerns and that you don’t teach those combinations.
Once you have mentioned safety concerns you really can’t go back, so make sure you are OK with not ever teaching the child/horse combination again.
I’m not really getting that impression simply because of this quote from the OP: “Teen was also offered working student hours in my program; work in the barn, learn something, earn hours towards an extra lesson” OP goes on to say the parents turned this offer down. It sounds to me like the parents think they know a lot more than they know, and don’t seem to think their knowledge base is lacking.
This trainer (and in reality most trainers) probably doesn’t care if the kid rides in an old, used Wintec as long as it reasonably fits the horse at a minimum, preferably horse and rider both. It does sound like this particular OTTB has more “issues” than the average OTTB, particularly in the soundness areas. The adoption agency itself would NOT let the kid ride the horse when they came to see it, so even they didn’t think the kid needed to be on the horse right away. This is probably why the trainer suspects the family was misleading in what they told the agency, and that the agency most likely thought the horse and child were going to be managed in a program, not going it mostly on their own with sporadic help. The horse may just need more down time, or the horse may be acting out a lot because it had “a fracture and an ankle that was cleaned out.”
Often times green with green is how it has to be due to budget, and this routinely ends up working out. This particular situation sounds a bit tougher than normal. Really green child, parents who think they more than they know, super green horse (that the agency wouldn’t let kid ride), and horse with potentially significant soundness issues. And all of this happening at home with no one with any horse knowledge providing oversight.
The fact that the trainer is posting here and made a long, thoughtful post tells me how much the kid can spend isn’t the issue. The trainer seems to have legitimate, real concerns about how wildly unsuitable this match is and doesn’t want to be party to this child potentially being really hurt. In the OP she even mentions offering to the parents to let the kid ride the green but already jumping small courses OTTB she had in the barn just to see how the kid got along with a green tb before they bought anything. The parents even turned that offer down.
This. Raise concerns but make it based on the Horse’s health and well-being. A poor fitting saddle can easily cause major riding issues (bucking, cold back etc) that will take months of careful training to resolve. A lingering injury from the track might require careful rehab to heal properly otherwise Dobbin will only be a W/T horse or permanently unsound. I agree that this family (who perhaps come from backyard/trail riding background) are trying to get into hunter/ jumpers on a budget. Nothing wrong with that - many of us horse crazy kids didn’t have a lot to work with, but having limited funds and being willfully ignorant are two very different things.
If they are just embarrassed about their tight budget, its worth pointing out to them that they have come to you for your expertise and if they won’t get properly fitting tack and a certificate of clean health from a vet, then you can not continue to teach them since further riding under these circumstances will only damage the horse and ultimately the kid.
For the sake of this pair, I hope that they are willing to learn the best way to handle this fancy (to them) new horse. Unfortunately, it sounds like they don’t really want much trainer input and prefer to do things their own way. If that is the case, then its best to educate them as best as you can, but draw the line at ill fitting tack that hurts the horse, or trying to ride a lame horse. Your professional reputation is worth protecting, and if the parents won’t listen to reason, then there is no way you can make them.
Always interested in all sides! I read that particular comment to mean that the parents didn’t want her to work off things, not that the student was lazy. It sounds like it wasn’t run by the kid. I guess we won’t know until OP expands, or the other side of the coin chimes in…
I imagine the parents chimed down the “offer” because it came with attachments (money being one).
Adoption / Rehoming organizations usually don’t allow people to ride the horses. That’s always been a normal thing in my area, at least.
@beowulf for sure, we’ve seen both extremes–the nice people with their first horse who get browbeaten into all sorts of silly supplements, faddy tack, and pro rides by a trainer who guilt trips clients by saying it’s necessary for the horse’s well-being. But there’s also the the people who just look at the price tag of an OTTB and penny-pinch on basic tack and try to DIY basic horse care and training with very little experience or even advice from more knowledgeable friends.
The impression I got from the OP was that this was a horse for an intermediate rather than a beginner rider, that the parents weren’t open to even free advice from a professional, not that the horse simply wasn’t fancy enough. The OP’s concerns seemed to pertain more to the horse picking up bad habits and health issues, not the fact that her student wasn’t kitted out in the latest gear.
Lots of wonderful advice from some posters, so thank you all for that.
yes, I run a h/j “program”, but I have riders from all budgets and abilities. We offer a working student program so that riders who have the desire to learn more and work for it not only learn horsemanship, but are also rewarded by earning extra lessons. This was offered to the above mentioned rider; it was beneath her. As I stated, this child does not have strong horsemanship skills, and being quite familiar with pony club, having been a pony clubber once upon a time myself, she would not be above a d-2 with her horse care skills.
My program varies between each horse and rider. One riders program might be 5x a week full training, but anothers might be 2x a month with homework with the horse at home. I do offer ship in lessons and I have several students who keep their horses at home and trailer in for lessons; its common in this area to have horses at home and I dont run a full care ONLY program. This rider did not do the homework at home when she had a trained horse who could at least wtc over poles when she was lessoning 1x a week on a school horse, so I’m doubtful the homework will get done with the new horse.
The lease and sale options offered were within a variety of price ranges, (who met the criteria of what she said she wanted goal wise) but I do train and teach as a career, and unfortunately cannot afford to find horses for clients for free. Since they never signed the agent contract, i wasnt contracted to find a horse within perameters; it was an “i have horses available for sale or lease, several of who would help you reach the goals you’ve shared with me in several price ranges” conversation that was ignored like most of the other advice. I take my job seriously and prefer to be paid for the work I do. I give back to riders who cant afford as much as others by offering the working student program. It works for kids who want to learn, which this one does not (from me, at least)
as for the saddle recommendations, I offered to help them measure and do back and wither tracings to find a saddle, used or new, that would fit the rider well. and suggested a variety of different brands. There is no saddle sponsor that clients are forced towards. I love my county, but I’m also happy to help find a nice older stubben at the consignment shop or whatever THAT FITS.
After reflecting on what i originally wrote and some of the responses, yes I do enjoy and have been quite successful working with ottbs, and was that kid myself with big dreams and a tough horse. I dont mind the greenness of this horse, I mind the greenness of the rider with this green horse, lack of supervision and ability to follow instruction, and the utter lack of respect from the parents of my time and policies. There is of course more to the story, but this situation with the new horse is the final straw I suppose; the more I try to explain the situation, the more I find myself wondering why I didnt politely suggest they might be happier at another barn 3 months ago.
while I may not know the horse well, I know the rider well as well as her current abilities as a rider. I probably would not be considering showing them the door if the rider was capable of riding something even slightly green, but the only thing she has ever been on was a western pleasure horse turned quiet trail horse/backyard barrel racer and my patient beginner and intermediate schoolies who are more whoa than go. She wasnt lessoning long enough with me before buying the Tb to advance to a more challenging school horse.
This kid and family has shown they wont take suggestion, instruction, or advice; strong, polite or otherwise time and time again and I did not see it for what it was. I appreciate the feedback from this thread and hopefully someone else will find it helpful.
I’d say 99% of green OTTBs are going to crossfire when lunged. The OP didn’t perceive it was soundness related, she didn’t know the precise reason. Underscoring the point that the OP may not have experience with green OTTBs. Nor did the OP say the horse wasn’t sound, just speculated it wouldn’t be. Why not? So they didn’t do a PPE; lots of people don’t get PPEs. The OP didn’t see x-rays; that doesn’t mean the parents didn’t see prior x-rays or read a vet report on the surgery or mean they would look horrible. I didn’t see where the parents say they expect this to be a three foot show hunter.
OP, if you don’t want to keep this client, don’t. You don’t need our permission. But it sounds to me you have as little patience for the horse as the people.
