How to teach/learn diagonals?

[darcilyna]

My dd aged 13.5 really struggles with getting the right diagonals. We talk about it. We watch videos on them and how to work on them. Sometimes she says she feels she never was taught them properly when first learning around 3 years ago. I spoke with her trainer tonight and she claims they have tried everything to teach them to her and DD just really struggles with them. (She got a little defensive about it honestly). To give more info: DD began riding at a different barn than she is now. At that barn she would be on a different horse often. Current lesson barn #2 and her main trainer just changed. We are in the process of switching barns for various reasons. (I have a whole different post about that topic) Currently DD usually rides 1 out of 2 of the same horses in her weekly lessons and has been training in Hunters in jumping crossrails- 2ft “level” for about a year. She competed in IEA the last 2 years in the W/T/C class.

I am asking you all if you’re a trainer or a rider what tips do you have on how to start at basics and break down diagonals so DD can get better at this?

Edited to add more details to the main post that people had asked in follow up.

[Sdel]

I was taught…out, in, out, up. So you sit the first couple of strides and your outside hip dips then the inside, outside again, then up.

[Rhythm_Pace_Impulsion]

I’ve found sometimes it helps to learn diagonals on a circle. The balance of the horse can help to inform the rider when they should be posting.

[MapleBreeze]

I hate it when students have been taught rise and fall with the outside to the wall because they always look to the outside and get it wrong.

So I tell my students to look inside and rise when the shoulder is coming bsck.

With kids I take away the reins and put them on a longe line and have them punch the air in front of them when the inside is coming back at the walk. When they have the timing from the punch I transition to practicing on the lunge at the trot.

Works like magic

[sascha]

Be absolutely sure the child understands inside and outside. They cannot learn diagonals without knowing 100% for sure. Left and right are neither here nor there, but inside and outside are paramount at this stage.

Put a mark on the shoulders of the horse (X of bandaids, dot of livestock marker, dot of temporary coloured hair spray, etc.) and have the child watch it first in walk so they can see it moving, then in trot.

Then ask them to move their outside arm with the mark as it goes forward and back, first in walk, then in sitting trot.

Once they have that, ask them to move their body with their arm. Voila, posting on the correct diagonal.

Keep marking the horse’s shoulders until absolutely sure the child can see the shoulders moving. Take the mark off. If the child becomes confused again, put the mark back on for as many lessons as it takes. Could be 2, could be 20. It doesn’t matter.

Once they have it, to “cure” looking at the shoulder constantly, tell the child that there are times that their diagonals will accidentally change - horse speeds up/slows down, turns quicker than expected, etc - and after something like that they need to check their diagonals, otherwise they don’t need to look once they’ve got it right each time they start posting trot.

[S1969]

How old is she, and does she always ride the same horse?

My daughter’s first trainer refused to teach diagonals to young kids. She said that 95% of the time they will correct themselves to be on the correct diagonal, but as soon as you start teaching them to look down and fix it, they lose the trot and have to start again. She would have them start trotting while sitting, and then just choose to start rising when they were ready. My dd started riding at 6 and it was true that she was almost always on the correct diagonal. (She also started riding on the lunge, which helped).

But some horses have such a flat, even trot it’s hard to feel the difference. It is impossible not to notice when I’m on the wrong diagonal of my TB, but very easy to be incorrect on my APHA. I used to try to see if I could pick it up wrong on the TB and really couldn’t, but often would pick it up incorrectly on my very flat moving paint mare.

If she is quite young, I might ask the trainer to stop trying and see if it resolves itself once she practices just trying to feel it. If she’s older, maybe polo wraps would help? Or tape on the inside shoulder.

[Eclectic_Horseman]

I always start beginners at the halt. While the horse is halted, I pick up the outside leg and tell the rider to look down at the outside shoulder to see what it does. Then stand in the stirrups when the shoulder bulges as I pick up the leg.

I will even work on it at the walk when the pace is slower. The bulge of the outside shoulder is harder to detect at the walk, but I will say, “Now” Now" “Now” as the rider posts.

Then move on to the trot-same thing. It will be a while before the rider can stop looking down and do it by feel. But a glance down at the shoulder is not a big deal. Once the rider is very clear on what she is looking for on the correct diagonal, then she can try to do it by feel, and glance down to correct herself by sitting a bounce if necessary.

[QHEventer]

Same! I still think it in my head every time I pick up the trot!!

Can your DD do some lunge lessons? My trainer teaches kids by putting them on the line, having them pick up the trot and start posting, and then (without letting them look down) tell her if they think they’re correct or incorrect.

Kids are really good at connecting the feeling/movement (better than adults) so in time, it should just feel natural to her when she’s correct. It may take longer for the light bulb to come on, but when she figures out, she’ll have it down for life. I think this is way better than teaching kids to look from the start. That’s how I was originally taught as a kid, and it took me a long time to break the habit even though I could feel it without looking.

[findeight]

Has she taken lessons with other trainers or just one?

How many times a week is she riding and how long has she been riding regularly?

How old is she?

These answers will help guide what advice can be given.

Off hand, little surprised at trainer saying they have been “struggling” trying to teach her and not offering any solutions or options.

[sascha]

@findeight

Off hand, little surprised at trainer saying they have been “struggling” trying to teach her and not offering any solutions or options.

From recent observation, this is shockingly a thing. Posting trot diagonal teaching appears (in some) to consist of “Change your diagonal.” Well, ain’t nobody gonna learn it that way and yet, the ‘teachers’ get increasingly frustrated as time passes and the student still has not learned it

[Luseride]

You have good suggestions here. One I found will work when nothing else does is have her close her eyes and tell you which leg is moving forward at the walk then transition to the trot doing the same thing. Sometimes sitting the trot helps to establish the feel better than trying to post.
I tell many of my riders to thing of it as dancing and they must get in rhythm with their partner.

[Willesdon]

Can I admit, in a very small voice, that in six decades of riding, I still can’t work out my diagonals?

[trubandloki]

@findeight

Off hand, little surprised at trainer saying they have been “struggling” trying to teach her and not offering any solutions or options.

Having known two people, both smart and coordinated people, who could never figure out how to do diagonals, no matter how it was explained, it does not surprise me at all.
Both people that struggled totally understood the concept, they just could not figure out how to feel/see the horse and then get their body to be doing the right thing.

So I think the OP needs to totally understand how their daughter is struggling.

[darcilyna]

She is 13.5 and been riding about 3 years. She does not always ride the same horse. It’s been between 2 horses for the last couple years, though. (Long story but we are in the process of switching lesson barns, as well, so that means new horses as she does trial lessons and that whole process). I don’t come from a horse background so I didn’t know what to look for or help her learn along the way when she started and even now I’m still learning! She tells me that she feels she never was really “taught” diagonals so it’s possible her first trainers/barn had the theory that you just learn by feel…I’m not sure. Their training in retrospect and IMHO seemed to be a bit rushed to get them up into jumpers. For example she was doing crossrails before her seat was all that strong.

[darcilyna]

We are on barn #2 since she began riding 3ish years ago. At barn #1 she had 2 trainers mostly and rode many different horses. I do think they didn’t really teach her diagonals rather the concept of “change your diagonal” to learn it and looking. ?

Barn #2 it’s been mostly one trainer but now a different trainer for a bit And on pretty much 1 of 2 of the same horses. I don’t think they have done much more than “change your diagonal” style of teaching it either. Although the head trainer got a little defensive when I said my girl seems to be missing some basics along the way and needs some technical training. (hence my first posted comment about “we have TRIED to teach her!”)

We are in process of choosing a new barn for various reasons. I have a whole separate post about this topic so I won’t go into detail here.

To answer the other questions she generally rides once a week. Sometimes two with a hack or an extra group lesson. She is age 13.5 almost 14. Competed IEA the last 2 seasons in W/T/C. For a year-ish has been working on crossrails up to 2 ft in lessons.

I would love to find a trainer who can break down how to help her GET her diagonals.
Love all the suggestions here!. Thank you!

[darcilyna]

Off hand, little surprised at trainer saying they have been “struggling” trying to teach her and not offering any solutions or options.

---

YUP! AGREE! One of the many reasons we are looking for a new lesson barn. I’d like her to have a more “technical” style of training.

[sascha]

@Willesdon

Can I admit, in a very small voice, that in six decades of riding, I still can’t work out my diagonals?

Of course! Then we will refer you to all the great advice above

May I ask how/if you know if you are on the correct lead in canter?

[Willesdon]

Because of when I ask for the strike off. Canter I can do, it is trot I have to check.

[HighpointHunter]

She needs to keep posting the trot until she knows where the front feet are. It’s just saddle time and practice.

The kid is riding once a week. It’s laughable that you think this is an issue with the trainer. HER. BUTT. NEEDS. TO. BE. IN. THE. SADDLE to learn diagonals.

[Gardenhorse]

Um, many once a week lesson kids manage to learn their diagonals in a lot less than 3 years. We obviously have no idea here if the issue is the kid or the trainer, but it’s not at all unrealistic to expect someone to learn their diagonals in once a week lessons.