How Would You Interpret This Comment?

[TheDBYC]

Pony rider who rides mainly with Trainer A is hoping to move up into catch riding & is looking for more saddle time & some new barn friends. Trainer A is a lovely, relaxed person who I’ve never gotten “it’s my way or the highway” vibes from. Pony rider’s parent inquired about a 1 day a week pony rider/ working student position with Trainer B, with whom pony rider has never met & has no relationship with. After watching a short clip of rider in which Trainer A is visible, Trainer B commented that it wouldn’t work; there would be a conflict of interest between themselves & Trainer A because they go to some of the same shows.

How would you interpret this? Polite way of saying rider ability isn’t up to snuff? Un-aired back story of some kind between A & B? Pony rider’s parent committed an inadvertent hunter world faux pas in even asking? None? All of the above?

[vxf111]

I don’t know how we could know. I would take it at face value-- this trainer feels using this catch rider would cause friction with the other trainer.

[SharonA1]

I interpret this as Trainer B feels there would be a conflict of interest between themselves & Trainer A because they go to some of the same shows.

One can’t have dual relationships in a competitive environment where people make their livelihood. It’s not allowed to be on one team and then go practice with the competing team one day a week. Kind of a shame, because in an ideal world, we always want to be learning from as many people as possible, but, just doesn’t work in this situation.

[SadieRidingHorses]

Is there a reason pony rider cannot ask Trainer A about catch riding? Either with A, or someone else that A suggests?

[trubandloki]

I look at it this way - Rider is part of Trainer A’s team. (This is in no way saying that Trainer A cares if rider takes lessons with someone else too.) Trainer A and Trainer B frequently have people and horses in the same division. If you were Trainer B how would you feel about having Trainer A’s client doing your catch riding for you?

[Scribbler]

I would take it as face value and not go digging deeper. Does it matter? There is nothing you can do to make Trainer B change their mind.

In future, the family could include Trainer A in the loop and ask Trainer A to approach other trainers that they cooperate with if the horses aren’t available at Trainer As barn.

I think that protocol on “stealing” clients varies from area to area depending on local culture and level of competition.

I can also see a trainer wanting a client to be fully committed to one barn. I can see Trainer B not wanting a working student with a primary commitment to Trainer A who might go to her home barn and gossip. I can also see Trainer B wanting to promote her own star clients to working student and catch rider, rather than taking on an outside person who hasn’t been in the program and who they don’t know.

[TheDBYC]

How does this differ from any other catch ride relationship, though? Especially in pony hunters where catch riding seems more prevalent than in other disciplines. (These are also different sized ponies than ours) Trainer A actually has a junior whose costs they pay to show some of their baby greens. The same junior often catch rides other, unrelated ponies at the same shows as Trainer A’s and was actually down in Wellington riding yet more. That was the part that made me wonder if it was a polite rebuff of ability.

It’s fine. Would’ve been a nice way of getting some cheaper show milage in. Was more me hoping to get the kid out of the house this summer with an independent project to look forward to. We’ll regroup & try a show jumping trainer at some point.

Eta: Why didn’t I ask Trainer A? Simply because it wasn’t initially advertised as a show/catch riding opening. More a “help groom, tack up for lesson kids & do come to Jesus schooling on a few ponies as needed” kind of thing like I did at that age.

[Scribbler]

It’s enough that Trainer B is uncomfortable with the situation.

[OnDeck]

I agree that is doesn’t really matter what the reasoning is and you will likely never know.

It is common courtesy to not do any type of business with another trainer’s current clients without involving the current trainer. Now, if trainer B wanted it to work and has a good or neutral relationship with trainer A she could have reached out to trainer A. I would assume they either have no relationship and Trainer B was afraid to “take” a client or they have a negative relationship that would make it undesirable for them to share a student. Either way, it’s their problem not yours.

@TheDBYC

How does this differ from any other catch ride relationship, though? Especially in pony hunters where catch riding seems more prevalent than in other disciplines.

It is a little different because junior catch rides are pretty much exclusively done through the junior’s current trainer. If Trainer B is looking for a catch rider she should be contacting all of her trainer connections and asking if anyone has a suitable kid.

[TheDBYC]

No reason not to. Simply was that the opening at Trainer B’s wasn’t advertised as a showing thing. Seemed like they were looking for a barn rat helper like I was at that age. Trainer A has another kid that is basically a mini pro that shows their horses. Plus, with as much trouble as we had scrambling to find a pony for this season, I’d assumed that if Trainer A was interested in having pony rider catch ride for them, they would’ve suggested it.

I’m not a hunter. I try not to open mouth & insert foot. That is why I come here to ask first.

[trubandloki]

@TheDBYC

No reason not to. Simply was that the opening at Trainer B’s wasn’t advertised as a showing thing. Seemed like they were looking for a barn rat helper like I was at that age. Trainer A has another kid that is basically a mini pro that shows their horses. Plus, with as much trouble as we had scrambling to find a pony for this season, I’d assumed that if Trainer A was interested in having pony rider catch ride for them, they would’ve suggested it.

I’m not a hunter. I try not to open mouth & insert foot. That is why I come here to ask first.

Did trainer A tell you about this job? Did Trainer A suggest your rider for this job?

[TheDBYC]

No. It was a post on our local community board.

I’m fine with it, I agree that Trainer B being uncomfortable is reason enough. I have no intention of trying to change their mind. My line of reasoning in wondering was as follows: I’ve taught private lessons for many years in a skill area that is highly subjective & rather political. Most of my students are middle school to college aged. I have a general sense of how many of the directors in the area operate and what they might be looking for in casting a particular show. In certain circumstances, I will try to find out the particulars in a delicate, non-direct way in the aftermath of a student’s unsuccessful/ disappointing audition. I won’t ask the director – I’m not out to change their mind. And I don’t relay any info to the student. It just gets tucked into my knowledge bank. And the next time we audition prep, I change the strategy to address the issue.

In this case, I wondered if it was something that I could subtly guide pony rider to improve for next time.

[TheDBYC]

@OnDeck

It is a little different because junior catch rides are pretty much exclusively done through the junior’s current trainer. If Trainer B is looking for a catch rider she should be contacting all of her trainer connections and asking if anyone has a suitable kid

That doesn’t appear to be the case locally. I have no knowledge of how it works in other areas, though. All of this is a cultural departure from what I’m used to from eventing/dressage.

[Scribbler]

Different situation.

You are giving lessons and sounding out or vetting directors.

That’s like a trainer giving lessons and then vetting judges. Not other coaches.

However, your anecdote actually makes a very good point. A kid working for two trainers is going to be pumped for information by both trainers. Few trainers want the inner calculations of their barns discussed with rivals. Also they might worry about where loyalty lies in a pinch.

[McGurk]

The only way this would work out in hunter land is if Trainer A and Trainer B had a fairly warm business relationship, and Trainer A had contacted Trainer B about her opening and said “Hey, I have a pretty good kid coming up and I don’t have a lot for her to ride because I’ve got semi-pro pony jockey. If you have a couple things that need schooling I could send her to you Wednesdays and Fridays.”

I have seen pretty much exactly that situation work out. The key here is that the deal is between the trainers, and clearly neither trainer is worried about the other poaching clients.

So your pony rider should approach Trainer A and ask her to help her get more saddle time.

PS - I had a wonderful petite adult riding student who was my pony jockey; and schooled a lot of my other client’s ponies. If she went to a show with us to school, she always had multiple job offers before she left, some overt, some not. Poaching is real.

[TheDBYC]

@Scribbler

You are giving lessons and sounding out or vetting directors.

That’s like a trainer giving lessons and then vetting judges. Not other coaches.

Yes, I know. I wasn’t comparing the two. A few posters asked why it mattered what the reason behind Trainer B’s response was. I was explaining my thought process behind wanting to soft core know.

[TheDBYC]

@Scribbler

A kid working for two trainers is going to be pumped for information by both trainers. Few trainers want the inner calculations of their barns discussed with rivals. Also they might worry about where loyalty lies in a pinch.

What nefarious sorts of things are these trainers doing that they don’t want people finding out?

[Scribbler]

They may just not want any gossip getting out. The usual run of rider and horse wear and tear, anxieties and calculations, expenses and prices. All kinds of things can turn into damaging gossip via the rumor mill. One set of hock injections can end up being “all their horses are crocked.” One moment of green exuberance can end up being a story about a dangerous horse. All barns have mistakes and accidents they don’t publicize. It doesn’t need to be nefarious. It’s just that if you genuinely feel in competition with another barn you don’t want or need a direct conduit of the inside story.

Even down to the purchase and sales price of project horses.

Did you ever evrn mention the trainer B job to trainer A? Might be fun to mention it without saying you applied and see what trainer A says.

[Arlomine]

For future reference, the PC thing to do in the situation would have been to approach trainer A first. I would still chat with trainer A because it would not be great for trainer A to hear from trainer B that Pony jockey was sniffing around for a job, when nothing has been said to trainer A.

Express that pony jockey is interested in getting more rides, wanted to make sure they were on trainer A’s radar for this, because they would love to work into that position in her program. Also could then mention in the same conversation that Trainer B’s advertisement was seen, and wondered if that would be a good idea for this kid or not? (Or come clean and say you checked it out, and wondered if that was, in hind-sight, a faux pas ?)

Hunter trainers are famously isolationist unless the other trainer is within a close circle of trusted colleagues.

[TheDBYC]

How did this go from me inquiring after an ad looking for a kid to tack up lesson horses with “riding opportunities occasionally available” for my kid who is still stuck distance learning & feeling lonely to get out of the house & hopefully meet new friends to my greedy kid “sniffing around” for riding opportunities?