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Hunter Class - is this tack illegal or unconventional?

[QUOTE=IPEsq;8862905]
Black stirrups are only illegal in equitation. [/QUOTE]
Actually, this rule just changed September 1st. From the USHJA website:

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[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Sept. 1, 2016[/TD]
[TD]Preferred Stirrups for Equitation: This change provides updated guidance on appropriate stirrups for use in the Hunter/Jumping Seat Equitation section. This rule recommends riders use “stainless steel stirrup irons that promote proper position of the foot in the iron as well as a correct leg position.” Further the rule recommends stirrup irons provide judges with a" clear and unobstructed view of the position of the foot in the stirrup." However, it states “judges may not eliminate a rider for using a particular style of stirrup iron.”

http://www.ushja.org/content/news/pr.aspx?id=4377[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[QUOTE=MHM;8862953]
Actually, this rule just changed September 1st. From the USHJA website:

[TABLE=“width: 575, align: center”]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Sept. 1, 2016[/TD]
[TD]Preferred Stirrups for Equitation: This change provides updated guidance on appropriate stirrups for use in the Hunter/Jumping Seat Equitation section. This rule recommends riders use “stainless steel stirrup irons that promote proper position of the foot in the iron as well as a correct leg position.” Further the rule recommends stirrup irons provide judges with a" clear and unobstructed view of the position of the foot in the stirrup." However, it states “judges may not eliminate a rider for using a particular style of stirrup iron.”

http://www.ushja.org/content/news/pr.aspx?id=4377[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE][/QUOTE]

Interesting! Thanks for the info, MHM!!

^ You’re welcome. :slight_smile:

Ok, I remember the rule was changing but thought it wasn’t til December… So, black stirrups are still unconventional in equitation, right? It seems you can be penalized if the judge can’t see your foot placement but not eliminated?

This is being picky, but in my opinion, black gloves preferred with black boots and helmet.

[QUOTE=Hidden Oak;8863171]
This is being picky, but in my opinion, black gloves preferred with black boots and helmet.[/QUOTE]

Well if you read the post I’m a jumper doing 1 hunter on the flat class and don’t want to buy extra tack/attire I’ll never use for 1 class at a schooling show, lol. I’m concerned about legality, not opinions. Thanks for the input tho, clearly I’m not too knowledgeable about hunters!

[QUOTE=Calvincrowe;8862843]
I would add that at a schooling show (no idea how “schooling show” it is…there is certainly a lot of variation in the definition), a square pad in the hunters is not “illegal” just not conventional. I’ve been to many one day hunter shows where winners showed in a square pad (usually white)–my boy has gone in flat phase in one before.

Be clean and conservative in your attire, your bit questions have been answered, no martingales or boots/wraps on horse’s legs.[/QUOTE]

Thanks! I was definitely wondering why a square pad would be illegal, haha. I have no intentions of using a martingale, but I constantly see hunters showing in standings - even jumping in them! - surely it’s not illegal?

[QUOTE=ybiaw;8862841]
:wink: I mean I could do it. My REAL answer to “What should I do with my hair, it won’t fit in my helmet” is “Hairnets. Suffer.” but I am just trying to be nice. Ish. :lol:[/QUOTE]

I was planning to use a hairnet actually - just have my hair in a tight but just under the helmet. (My helmet was fitted when my hair was much shorter, and fitted with my hair down, because I ride with it down 99% of the time and want it to be safe/secure!) That is fine/correct, right?

[QUOTE=IlexOpaca;8863539]
Thanks! I was definitely wondering why a square pad would be illegal, haha. I have no intentions of using a martingale, but I constantly see hunters showing in standings - even jumping in them! - surely it’s not illegal?[/QUOTE]

In the hunters standings martingales are allowed over fences but NOT in the undersaddle.

[QUOTE=ybiaw;8862859]
My problem with the “it’s just a schooling show” or the “depends on what your goals are” is that if you go in the ring using unconventional tack, sometimes the judge will just excuse you from the ring completely.

I get that some people just want to take their horses for the experience of being at a horse show and being in the show ring, but that never makes much sense to me, you still have to pay entry fees and show fees…so why not go in, put your best foot forward, wear conventional hunter-approved tack, and be judged?

Just saying.

ETA: Ok I’m doing too many things at once right now. I’ve made some edits. And also - the loose ring is totally fine but not with bit guards or bit burrs.[/QUOTE]

Well of course I plan to use all legal (and as conventional as I can make it) tack/attire, and absolutely put my best foot forward - hence me asking the questions. That being said, I’m not going to go buy a D ring bit, black gloves, dark coat, tan breeches, a fitted pad, a traditional hunter bridle, and a new saddle (I ride in a Stubben Imperator - it’s rather unusual coloring, you can see if you google it - great saddle tho!) for 1 class in a schooling show that I will never use or show in again. Money is very tight for me, I really can’t afford to spend any extra that type of thing unfortunately. However after reading your and everyone’s responses, I’m pretty confident I will be entirely legal and blend in fairly well!

As for why I’m entering in this in the first place, I’m about to respond to Ambitious Kate’s question on the matter, if you want to read that. :slight_smile:

[QUOTE=vxf111;8863551]
In the hunters standings martingales are allowed over fences but NOT in the undersaddle.[/QUOTE]

Wow, that’s crazy! I can’t imagine jumping in a standing martingale.

[QUOTE=Ambitious Kate;8862902]
I’m a jumpers girl myself and OP I’m still interested in why you are putting your horse in this flat class, myself. If you care to share.[/QUOTE]

Sure!
He’s a greenie and rather high strung, and this is going to be his first show. Were entering in at least 2 jumper classes and the one adult open w/t/c hunter class. I want to make it easy for him to succeed and a positive show experience for him. A flat class seemed like a good idea. The whole nature is different - much calmer, more than 1 rider in the arena at a time, etc. It’s one of the first classes of the day, so a good place to start on. In general a nice flat class is something I want him to be exposed to, even though I have zero interest in hunters. I actually didn’t even realize it was a hunter class when I decided to take it (wasn’t really thinking - now I realize of course it is).

Additionally - when I first got him, his trot was awful, his canter was uncontrollable, flat, and insanely fast and tilting, and he carried his head well behind the vertical even on no contact. I’ve now trained him up and gotten him to the point of a proper head carriage either on or just above the vertical, a great frame with him using his bum, a nice adjustable trot, and a good, collected canter with a flying lead change (though I’m assuming they won’t ask for a flying change in the class-). I’m rather happy with it and would enjoy the chance to show that off, if only to my fam/friends, at a lil schooling show.

So, basically, just because I want to. Variety is good!

[QUOTE=IlexOpaca;8863597]
Wow, that’s crazy! I can’t imagine jumping in a standing martingale.[/QUOTE]

Then hunters are crazy. Because that’s very commonly done.

I think it would be crazy to show up for a show with wildly disfavored tack/equipment. So clearly our definitions of “crazy” differ. I’ve done baby CT events and dressage shows and I do my best to follow the norms. It doesn’t cost anything to take off a martingale and wraps/boots or to choose from among your bit selection one that is not hugely unconventional. When I did dressage I didn’t go out and buy the whole kit but I fit in everywhere I could.

You’ve listed head to toe unconventional tack… and then disparage hunter tack. I suspect those standing martingales do a lot less than your figure eight, gag bit, etc. Hunters usually can get it done with way less bridle. Different strokes for different folks.

If you don’t like hunter norms, there are other ways to get in the ring with other horses. Dressage suitability classes, for example. An equitation flat class. Schooling. If you’re insistent on not doing what is done… why bother?!

[QUOTE=vxf111;8863700]
Then hunters are crazy. Because that’s very commonly done.

I think it would be crazy to show up for a show with wildly disfavored tack/equipment. So clearly our definitions of “crazy” differ. I’ve done baby CT events and dressage shows and I do my best to follow the norms. It doesn’t cost anything to take off a martingale and wraps/boots or to choose from among your bit selection one that is not hugely unconventional. When I did dressage I didn’t go out and buy the whole kit but I fit in everywhere I could.

You’ve listed head to toe unconventional tack… and then disparage hunter tack. I suspect those standing martingales do a lot less than your figure eight, gag bit, etc. Hunters usually can get it done with way less bridle. Different strokes for different folks.

If you don’t like hunter norms, there are other ways to get in the ring with other horses. Dressage suitability classes, for example. An equitation flat class. Schooling. If you’re insistent on not doing what is done… why bother?![/QUOTE]

Um. Wow, I think you completely misunderstood me. Did you read the post…?

I listed what I was already going to the show with, ie, the gettup I had for jumper classes. I listed what other tack I have that I thought might be closer to the mark. Then I asked what was illegal or terribly unconventional. As for the boots/wraps, I listed that because I thought it might be required or something. I usually don’t flat in any boots other than bell boots, which he lives in, unless we are going to be galloping or something of the like, then I might put on polos. I only break out the open fronts (or “riot gear” as my non horsey bf calls them, lol!) if we are jumping a substantial height. As for the snarky remark about the bridle and bit, I usually actually jump in a loose ring double jointed snaffle and no noseband at all - much less bridle than a D ring and caveson - which I mentioned in my post as well. I’d only be competing in stronger stuff because he is very young and high strung and I suspect will be pretty cranked up in a show environment. Like I said, if I get there and he’s calm, I’ll jump in our regular set up. I was genuinely surprised about the martingale - I guess figure 8s and mild gags are evil, but I’d be terrified of sending my horse over a 3ft plus jump with his face tied to his chest. “Different strokes for different folks”, like you said, I guess!

Again, I posted this to find out how to look as much like a hunter as possible. So far I’m going to have a loose ring bit, caveson noseband, white rolled fleece on front and back 1/2 pad (which I’ve seen hunters compete in plenty of times before), no boots, no martingale, nothing illegal or ~horribly unconventional~. I even have just now located a brown fancy stitch hunter bridle to use, it was quite expensive when I bought it years ago before I knew it was hunters and not what my horse needed. So as it stands, I’m gonna look pretty darn hunter-y on show day. As for my own attire, I’m not so far off the mark. i believe the only thing really left in that department are my dark brown gloves and hunter green show coat, as well as my saddle (a Stubben Imperator). The gloves were $50 and the coat was $560. The saddle is a saddle. I’m not replacing them for a one time class.

Sorry if thinking it’s crazy to tie your horse’s head to its chest while jumping but make it illegal on the flat is considered “disparaging hunter tack”. I came here to learn more about it so as to blend in better. PS - They don’t have an equitation flat class or dressage anything at this show.

The fact that you equate a properly adjusted standing to a tie down shows how little you know. It’s hard to learn with your mind closed. But that’s your loss, not anyone else’s

Standing martingales are legal in the jumpers for classes that pay less than $5000 and IME it’s not uncommon to see them.

[QUOTE=vxf111;8863853]
The fact that you equate a properly adjusted standing to a tie down shows how little you know. It’s hard to learn with your mind closed. But that’s your loss, not anyone else’s[/QUOTE]

The fact that you don’t realize they are the same or that a “properly adjusted” martingale is false logic is actually more alarming than the fact that you attacked me for being non hunter-y… on a post asking how I can be more hunter-y. Oh, elitism.

[QUOTE=Highflyer;8863917]
Standing martingales are legal in the jumpers for classes that pay less than $5000 and IME it’s not uncommon to see them.[/QUOTE]

I didn’t know that either, I’ve never seen one. I’ve never bothered to find out because I’ve never used one. There’s lots of alarming stuff that’s legal in jumpers IMO - the double edged sword of having a more “anything goes” attitude when it comes to tack, I guess -

[QUOTE=IlexOpaca;8863921]
The fact that you don’t realize they are the same or that a “properly adjusted” martingale is false logic is actually more alarming than the fact that you attacked me for being non hunter-y… on a post asking how I can be more hunter-y. Oh, elitism.[/QUOTE]

A “tie-down” and “standing martingale” are NOT the same piece of equipment as far as I’m concerned.

If you don’t like the responses given, I suggest you would ask your trainer (or better yet even the show manager) what would be allowed or acceptable for that show. I run schooling shows and have many competitors ask me what would be allowed in the classes, etc and I’m happy to answer their questions (and otherwise help those who have no clue about showing in hunters or jumpers).

[QUOTE=Equitational;8863951]
A “tie-down” and “standing martingale” are NOT the same piece of equipment as far as I’m concerned.

If you don’t like the responses given, I suggest you would ask your trainer (or better yet even the show manager) what would be allowed or acceptable for that show. I run schooling shows and have many competitors ask me what would be allowed in the classes, etc and I’m happy to answer their questions (and otherwise help those who have no clue about showing in hunters or jumpers).[/QUOTE]

Brah… I asked the questions… I got the answers… I will be in hunter tack and attire… this isn’t about my original post, it’s about people getting butthurt over a standing martingale.