I just got finished watching the derby on the Devon live feed and I can tell you that I didn’t pay attention to any rider’s position at all because I was way too busy watching the horse, especially over the jump. I expect the judges are similarly focused on the animal in the ring that is actually being judged.
[QUOTE=ElisLove;7598511]
And riders now a days are just horrid… oh wait
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSD7JpMTUOfbV_mvZyPmp2N0vIvMiYW94m6LaZwITcTy_0BuA9CbQ
http://horsesinthesouth.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Keenan005965.jpg
http://www.tranquillityhorsefarm.com/images/CarthanoMike3.jpg
http://www.wildturkeyfarm.com/img/stallions/chesapeake_main.jpg
http://njh.images.worldnow.com/images/3467883_G.jpg[/QUOTE]
I NEVER said that ALL riders of today didn’t ride in a classical style. Didn’t I just say…oh nevermind…
I like the classical style. That’s just me.
Lillie K looks wonderful in that picture and I do agree that GM needs to update his book with these lovely photos.
[QUOTE=IvyHall;7598591]
I would never go around saying I have great form or that they way I ride should be the
Goal of others, but I’m not exactly embarrassed either. I am very proud of my horse and
all that we have accomplished (including qualifying and showing at Devon this year).
As I said before my horse is happy with the way I ride in the air and at the end of the day that is what matters most to me.[/QUOTE]
I’m not sure where you got, that this was the point of my post. I did say I wasn’t talking about Devon, really at all. More the epidemic of low level riders thinking this is how they should look over small fences. 
[QUOTE=Nickelodian;7598700]Honestly, you’re riding with the wrong trainer. I’ve not ridden with a trainer who didn’t get after me about my tendency to lean and duck. I think the style mentioned in this thread works for a select few of naturally talented riders. For the rest of us, sitting up and riding with better equitation (not equitating, two different things) helps prevent flinging oneself directly onto the ground.
If you’re a pro, and you ride your best backwards in a chair seat while eating bananas, all the more power to you.[/QUOTE]
lol! No kidding. I left this trainer a long, long time ago.
And that’s all I’m talking about, low level riders thinking this is the way you should look over small jumps.
ETA: I am speaking about myself, I guess when I referred to “photos of me”, it wasn’t clear enough. I highly doubt I would ever show any horse at the likes of a show like Devon. If I got rid of all my “useless” (bless their hearts), problem child horses, I could in reality have one nice horse to show on the circuit with. Honestly, after 18 years in the industry, I find so much more pleasure in working with the throw-aways. And in turn, working on myself for me.
[QUOTE=HorseLuvr;7598179]
Haha! I really doubt I would be embarrassed of any photo, even if my legs were flying out behind the saddle if I had just won grand champion hunter rider at Devon.[/QUOTE]
Haha ! I would definitely be embarrassed of any such photo if I won a championship. Because I’d want to look like I deserved it.
Even though it’s not an equitation trophy, my form should never detract from the horse that I’m presenting on behalf of clients.
[QUOTE=Jsalem;7598207]
The horses jump in incredible form. These riders are amazing. I don’t even know what to say to the back seat drivers here that criticize these riders because they don’t sit pretty. I just don’t know what to say. Except- “let’s see you go out there and do it better”.[/QUOTE]
Would you say that to George Morris ? just curious…
[QUOTE=Mardi;7599843]
Would you say that to George Morris ? just curious…[/QUOTE]
Not only have my riders ridden and ribboned at Devon, but my riders have ridden in clinics with George Morris. He appreciates classical, effective riding. He doesn’t appreciate “affected” riding. I’m afraid that many of the posters here don’t know the difference.
[QUOTE=BITSA;7599415]
I disagree with Muklik that GM form does not follow function[/QUOTE]
I was being sarcastic!
[QUOTE=Willesdon;7598529]
The Hunter/Jumper style is unique to hunter/jumper classes. [/QUOTE]
What is a hunter/jumper class?
A very interesting (and astute) observation… :yes:
I personally hate hate hate it and there is no excuse for the sloppiness. If GP riders can maintain their form at tiring venues over much bigger jumps on horses that have much more power, the hunters can shape up. However my opinion doesn’t matter and that isn’t why I’m here. I have to ask:
If their riding really is so dangerous and atrocious, why don’t we see more catostrophic falls? Seriously.
I’ve never seen event riders use that style of riding, so that probably says something.
While we are talking about leaning and ducking, did anyone notice that Rhumba has a new rider?
[QUOTE=SnicklefritzG;7600281]
I’ve never seen event riders use that style of riding, so that probably says something.[/QUOTE]
I’m not sure of the point of posting this. What does it say? If you think riding eventing and riding hunters is similar you are only showing your lack of understanding. Have you ever seen and eventer on course jump like Everly, Mystical, Mindful, Ovation etc. etc.?? The reason you haven’t is because of the style of riding.
Mindful, who won the derby yesterday at Devon recently moved from jumpers. Try to find a video of the horse in jumpers and then watch the derby round, you might notice a difference. If you do the difference will be the riding.
I’m amazed that people on the sidelines question why these hunter riders lean and duck. The answer is because it allows the horse to jump it’s very best. Not good, but it’s very best which is what it takes to win at this level. Look at the pictures of Tori Colvin in the hunters and jumpers. Same rider, same day different horse, different goals. If it didn’t work and produce results why in the H**** would they do it?? They aren’t just up there getting lucky and tossed around. These are the best riders there are, it is very intentional. As for what GM thinks, you will have to ask him. But I can clearly see these riders are amazing and produce incredible results.
[QUOTE=Cannonball;7600344]
I’m not sure of the point of posting this. What does it say? If you think riding eventing and riding hunters is similar you are only showing your lack of understanding. Have you ever seen and eventer on course jump like Everly, Mystical, Mindful, Ovation etc. etc.?? The reason you haven’t is because of the style of riding.
That level of sarcasm is uncalled for. If you don’t understand why I posted it, then you didn’t really read what I wrote and are only interested in pontificating. Your post is a prime example of why some people make fun COTH members for being extremely opinionated and critical and chasing some new folks off the board.
And as for what George Morris thinks? Yes, I actually did ask him in person about this earlier this week and got a response. A very detailed one in fact.
I’m not going to argue with George. 
Cannonball- it doesn’t actually help the horse- the best hunter riders are able to lean and duck without throwing the horses off balance, but those actions are a stylistic “LOOK HOW HUGE THIS HORSE JUMPS!” kind of thing. The ducking in no way helps the horse jump better- how could it?
I had this exact conversation many, many years ago with my trainer when I was a junior (he is now an R judge, who judges at Devon and down at WEF, etc.), when he told me never to emulate his ducking style because it can unbalance the horse if not done properly.
[QUOTE=SnicklefritzG;7600281]
I’ve never seen event riders use that style of riding, so that probably says something.[/QUOTE]
And this means what?
“I’m amazed that people on the sidelines question why these hunter riders lean and duck. The answer is because it allows the horse to jump it’s very best. Not good, but it’s very best which is what it takes to win at this level.” --Cannonball
“Cannonball- it doesn’t actually help the horse- the best hunter riders are able to lean and duck without throwing the horses off balance, but those actions are a stylistic “LOOK HOW HUGE THIS HORSE JUMPS!” kind of thing. The ducking in no way helps the horse jump better- how could it?”-- Foursocks
The discussion in a nutshell, I think. Or is there something I’m missing? No dog in the fight, but I’m finding this a fascinating discussion among the people here who are hunter experts.
[QUOTE=Angelico;7600275]
If GP riders can maintain their form at tiring venues over much bigger jumps on horses that have much more power, the hunters can shape up. [/QUOTE]
What GP riders are you watching??
There are some like Beezie and McLain who do usually maintain excellent form. There are plenty of others who exhibit the drunken monkey style, which seems to work well for them if they are leaving the rails up. But there is a wide variety of styles on display in the GP ring. Just like all the other rings.
[QUOTE=ChristinaClarLuisa;7600395]
“I’m amazed that people on the sidelines question why these hunter riders lean and duck. The answer is because it allows the horse to jump it’s very best. Not good, but it’s very best which is what it takes to win at this level.” --Cannonball
“Cannonball- it doesn’t actually help the horse- the best hunter riders are able to lean and duck without throwing the horses off balance, but those actions are a stylistic “LOOK HOW HUGE THIS HORSE JUMPS!” kind of thing. The ducking in no way helps the horse jump better- how could it?”-- Foursocks
The discussion in a nutshell, I think. Or is there something I’m missing? No dog in the fight, but I’m finding this a fascinating discussion among the people here who are hunter experts.[/QUOTE]
To clarify I’m no expert and far from it. Just an observer from a very close distance. And I guess I still don’t understand the Snicklefritz eventing comment but I apologize if misinterpreted what you said. And I in know way intend to discourage people from commenting.
Riding is an art not a science. Different people have different riding styles. As different horses have different jumping styles.
Those that you see in the magazines leaning, ducking, etc. often have such natural feel and balance, that perhaps they are able to simply ride the way that works for them and allows them to get the most out of their horse. For those of us who are less naturally gifted, classical equitation is key to producing results and being a good rider.
I also agree with the poster that mentioned most of the riders will look drastically different from horse to horse or discipline to discipline. Also, remember that a picture is simply a moment in time. Sometimes I watch videos and I think riders look quiet, balanced, and subtle with their aids. And then you see a picture from the same class and they are pinching with their knees and looking down.
FWIW: I try really hard not to pinch with my knee or jump ahead and still do it despite instruction and years of trying to break the habit :lol:
