[QUOTE=HJEq;7603152]
…
I was told that the reason why top hunter riders exaggerate like that is to say ‘look at my horse! He jumps so big and round and perfectly, I can’t even maintain my position!!’
Annoying yes, but clearly it works for them.[/QUOTE]
…as long as nobody trips on landing.
And it’s not even a fair comparison; eventers to jumpers is far more equitable, and pretty close in style. The kind of jump you want in an eventer is NOT the kind of jump you want in a hunter–big flashy, hanging in the air jumps don’t have any advantage on XC, and actually slow you down and tire out the horse faster, which isn’t something you want in a timed event where the horse has to then recover and then go showjump. So riding in a style that produces that kind of jump, or claims to produce that kind of jump, has absolutely no purpose. I guarantee, if had some kind of advantage, and you wouldn’t go arse over teakettle down a drop, people would be out on XC riding that way too.
Plenty of riders switch back and forth–I consider myself an eventer now, but I did a hunter show two weeks ago. But most eventers who cross train (and most do!) go do jumpers, and I’d guess in most cases you wouldn’t notice a difference in the rides between them and a regular jumper rider.
I just came from auditing my first ever George Morris clinic yesterday and feel like my life is changed although I am not even sure why as he didn’t say a single thing I hadn’t heard countless times before. He did mention that ALL the hunter riders today are doing it wrong. Since he wrote the book, I guess he would know.
[QUOTE=Laurierace;7603253]
I just came from auditing my first ever George Morris clinic yesterday and feel like my life is changed although I am not even sure why as he didn’t say a single thing I hadn’t heard countless times before. He did mention that ALL the hunter riders today are doing it wrong. Since he wrote the book, I guess he would know.[/QUOTE]
Well I guess the riders don’t care what George thinks as they ride pretty much they way they want to and they certainly get results from their horses.
[QUOTE=PonyPenny;7603266]
Well I guess the riders don’t care what George thinks as they ride pretty much they way they want to and they certainly get results from their horses.[/QUOTE]
And therein lies the problem. Just like with big lick, they ride what pins. Until they get the judges on board nothing will change.
[QUOTE=Laurierace;7603253]
I just came from auditing my first ever George Morris clinic yesterday and feel like my life is changed although I am not even sure why as he didn’t say a single thing I hadn’t heard countless times before. He did mention that ALL the hunter riders today are doing it wrong. Since he wrote the book, I guess he would know.[/QUOTE]
At the clinic I attended just before the one in MD, he also had very strong things to say about form and position in today’s H/J rings.
No one in any discipline is perfect, but when I hear George say the things that he did, well I’m not going to argue either. 
[QUOTE=Laurierace;7603270]
And therein lies the problem. Just like with big lick, they ride what pins. Until they get the judges on board nothing will change.[/QUOTE]
With what are the judges supposed to get on board exactly? For the umpteen millionth time, hunters are judged on the horse, not the rider. Judges would not be following the USEF rule book if they were to judge hunters based on rider form.
I was actually referring to crawling along instead of a hand gallop. I agree that they can’t judge the rider in the hunters.
George wrote a book called Hunter Seat Equitation. He did not write a book called Riding a Hunter Show Horse. Some of us are old enough to remember George on a hunter. I’m not here to pick on the fella, but trust me, they didn’t go half as well as Rodney’s did 
If any one should have written that book, it was Rodney.
Another one of those modern hunter riders, laying on the neck and looking own with their leg slipped back:
http://horsetalk.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Harry-de-Leyer-Snowman.jpg
[QUOTE=chunky munky;7603465]
George wrote a book called Hunter Seat Equitation. He did not write a book called Riding a Hunter Show Horse. Some of us are old enough to remember George on a hunter. I’m not here to pick on the fella, but trust me, they didn’t go half as well as Rodney’s did If any one should have written that book, it was Rodney.[/QUOTE]
When did Rodney ever have time to write a book?? :lol:
Not that I know how George found the time, for that matter.
[QUOTE=Laurierace;7603253]
I just came from auditing my first ever George Morris clinic yesterday and feel like my life is changed although I am not even sure why as he didn’t say a single thing I hadn’t heard countless times before.[/QUOTE]
I’ve noticed the same thing when I’ve audited his clinics. He doesn’t say many things you’ve never heard before, but he always seems to say exactly the right thing in exactly the right way at exactly the right time to really hit the nail on the head to drive his point home.
[QUOTE=Laurierace;7603270]
And therein lies the problem. Just like with big lick, they ride what pins. Until they get the judges on board nothing will change.[/QUOTE]
You really can’t be comparing Big Lick with Hunters, right?
I am surprised in 6 pages of this thread that no one mentioned the ducking as a means to the (now favored over the change) landing lead…
[QUOTE=RugBug;7603907]
You really can’t be comparing Big Lick with Hunters, right?[/QUOTE]
i am comparing faulty judging.
[QUOTE=fancy stitched;7603931]
I am surprised in 6 pages of this thread that no one mentioned the ducking as a means to the (now favored over the change) landing lead…[/QUOTE]
You do know that landing on the correct lead isn’t new, right? Back in the '60’s (that I know of) landing on the wrong lead and having to change was a big NONO. For that matter, so was landing cantering from a trot fence…
I am a fan of form and function. It is there for a reason. Hunters are only in the US so we only show against ourselves so other "styles: are not included.
The jumpers world wide…do they duck to the side and have their lower legs swinging?
If I remember right, I heard GM discussing why the US is no longer at the top of the Jumping world internationally. There has to be something to it.
There are a few I love to watch here but not many and the odd win does not make a star.
Look at the old pictures of Kathy Kusner, legs are great auto release, Bill Steinkraus etc. What were they doing wrong that someone felt it should change?
I dread the day when the last of the GMs and Denny’s and so one are gone…
JMHO
I think what Ivy62 said gets at some of what I was alluding to in one of my other posts. No discipline is perfect, but "form and function are there for a reason.
George Morris at a recent clinic was very harsh on the people he sees in the show ring who duck and get up on their horse’s necks no matter what level they ride, whether amateur or pro. Among many other things he said that sort of thing is “unnecessary”.
I wouldn’t say that Kathy Kusner (as wonderful a rider as she was) falls into the category of orthodox stylist. We see the point that you are making but perhaps a poor example. The fact that US riders are not at the top of the list has I am afraid much more to do with lack of available dollars and owner interest to buy the best horse flesh.
[QUOTE=Madeline;7604041]
You do know that landing on the correct lead isn’t new, right? Back in the '60’s (that I know of) landing on the wrong lead and having to change was a big NONO. For that matter, so was landing cantering from a trot fence…[/QUOTE]
Except now no one cares if you land on the wrong lead as long as your horse has an adequate lead change. And landing cantering from the trot fence is imperative.
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