I believe it was more customary to slide down that bank, not leap off the top of it. Whether it was planned or not, hats off to Mr. Steinkraus for following his horse so well. 
Even Zorak, the ultimate praying mantis, can still learn to correct his poor form. Here he is winning in the BigEq after working with GHM for a season. His form is both attractive and effective.
[QUOTE=CBoylen;7604180]
Except now no one cares if you land on the wrong lead as long as your horse has an adequate lead change. And landing cantering from the trot fence is imperative.[/QUOTE]
Chanda, donât you think nowadays in the pro hunter divisions you see much more use of the landing lead than a lead change? I feel like in the past years as opposed to past decades, the pros are riding for the landing lead much more prevalently.
I do admire our Lord Helpusâ photo from back in the day⊠Stunning you were, in that picture!
Canât find it for the life of meâŠ
Someone please share it. This means you, Lord Helpus, if no one else can find it.
Lack of independant seat brought about by Mumsy & Daddo wanting to see little precious in the show ring before they are ready.
[QUOTE=fancy stitched;7605880]
Chanda, donât you think nowadays in the pro hunter divisions you see much more use of the landing lead than a lead change? I feel like in the past years as opposed to past decades, the pros are riding for the landing lead much more prevalently.[/QUOTE]
Only in the handy when itâs sometimes necessary. I see plenty of lead changes winning. And the worst chew-out Iâve ever heard of a pro rider was for influencing the lead in the air. A decent lead change isnât going to lose a ribbon.
[QUOTE=poniesinthenight;7605961]
Lack of independant seat brought about by Mumsy & Daddo wanting to see little precious in the show ring before they are ready.[/QUOTE]
Really? I hardly think the riders at Devon lack an independent seat. Whether we agree or not with their form, their horses jump beautifully which is what you want in a hunter. Comments like yours are just snarky and rude.
Great solution to the whole show hunter issueâŠchange the name of the discipline to something more descriptive of the reality.
If you dislike the hunters so much, just go enjoy another discipline. Simple enough.
CM, there you go againâŠI do not dislike hunters at all and want the best for the discipline. I am old-fashioned and a purist, thatâs all. All for a return to outside courses, unrelated distances, horses that could be actual fox hunters. Not the reality, perhaps, but an ideal one can reach for in some semblance.
Now, back to the topic at hand.
These are show hunters. Not. Fox. Hunters. There will never again be many outside courses because there isnât the real estate. So it is not a reality to reach for. it is in fact a fantasy that many have a fond remembrance of, but none the less a fantasy. You want different courses a different pace, a different form of riding and judging on different criteria. Few show hunters after the early 70âs have ever followed hounds. It is truly a different sport. You know, most of the time I liked the days before cell phones better too, but those days will never return. So I have a choice to not use one, or just join the 21st century. I have chosen to use a cell phone. But I donât spend a lot of time talking or thinking about how nice it was prior to their existence, or expect people to forego the use of them because I donât like them.
[QUOTE=chunky munky;7606764]
âŠThere will never again be many outside courses because there isnât the real estate. [/QUOTE]
There will never be outside courses again because it doesnât fit with the factory show âhunterâ mentality. It would slow down the process and possibly be inconvenient for the trainers. Real outside courses with solid, varied fences and going up and down hill outside of a ring would require a different approach.
Nope. Not going to happenâŠ
[QUOTE=Madeline;7607007]
There will never be outside courses again because it doesnât fit with the factory show âhunterâ mentality. It would slow down the process and possibly be inconvenient for the trainers. Real outside courses with solid, varied fences and going up and down hill outside of a ring would require a different approach.
Nope. Not going to happenâŠ[/QUOTE]
The problem isnât the trainers. I think chunky munky hit the nail on the head with the land issue. Many trainers produce hunters, jumpers and eq horses and riders so they have no issue adapting the style, and this was just further proven by how quickly a Derby specialist horse emerged. I donât think todayâs trainers would have any issue adapting to an outside course. Heck, many of the trainers are from the âglory daysâ of the outside course on grass, but it simply isnât feasible any more. Perhaps if you actually attended shows and got involved youâd see why. Grass rings are great only when the weather is perfect, and imperfect weather has made even the old hold-outs like Upperville make the change to footing. In the old days people sucked it up and maybe gave their horse some time off afterwards. People are simply unwilling to risk their horses on shit footing anymore, and a much higher level of soundness is expected today. Iâm sorry, but Iâm not willing to condemn any change which is beneficial to the horse, like new, better footing. Iâm also not trying to jump my horse over solid fences. Even the eventers are adapting their fences because of the possibility of rotational falls.
No, you seem to simply be stuck in the old days, equally unwilling to see how detrimental some of the practices were back then and how wonderful some of the new technology is, even with the restrictions posed by suburban expansion.
That being said, Iâm sure most people would love to have larger rings with more flowing courses, but again, we work with what we have. Unless youâd like to donate a facility you deem appropriate for hunter showing and do some scientific research on why grass is superior to technical footing, this conversation about TODAYâs hunters seems irrelevant to you since all you seem to be willing to do is complain.
First, Why is everyone breaking bad w/ OP? Just because sheâs not as " up on the current riding fashions" as everyone else, or maybe she finds the pix exasperating. I donât know. Second, I beg to differ with the post that said equitation is " just a matter of form". It was always taught to me that the mechanics of equitation created the safest and securest position for the rider while allowing the horse maximum freedom of movement- not true??
Regarding grass footing, it is beautiful. And it is fun. What itâs not is durable.
If you held a nice horse show on a pretty grass field for a day or two with a reasonable number of horses, it might hold up. If you tried to run a five day show with lots of horses for multiple weeks, thatâs a whole different story. Thereâs a reason that WEF finally switched to all weather footing in every ring. The grass rings looked great for the first week or two. By the end of the seaon, there was hardly a blade of grass in sight.
And if the weather is bad, forget it. I attended Upperville some years ago when the hunter ring was still all grass. I thought it was one of the most beautiful shows I had ever seen. And it was. Until it rained. And rained. And rained and rained and rained. We packed up and went home, as did most people. It just wasnât worth the risk to the horses.
[QUOTE=WhiskeyBuddy;7597780]
Why is it when I look at the pictures from all the fancy hunter rounds at Devon this week, and other shows in the past, many of the riders are lying on their horses neck and looking down at the fence. I know that hunter shows are judged on the horse making a pretty picture but my gosh it would be easier to notice the horse looks pretty if the riders looked pretty too!!![/QUOTE]
So, going back to the original poster. All things aside, the answer to âWhyâ is âBecause they canâ. Todayâs horses donât care. Or, theyâve been trained not to care. Ride yesterdayâs horses like that, be it jumper or hunter, you ended up in the dirt.
With yesterdayâs Thoroughbred type horses, you had to stay âwithin the boxâ and not make any big movements, or you royally pissed off your horse.
Todayâs warmbloods are stunning, but they are generally bigger, and slower. Slower in movement, and slower off the ground and in the air. And that is what judges are pinning these days. So, slower, slower, slower. And because of the general slowing down on the pace and the jump, riders are doing whatever it takes to get that jump - whether it looks funky or not - and the horses will put up with it, whereas in yesteryear, they wouldnât (nor would instructors).
Whether it helps or hurts is up for debate, and ultimately doesnât make much difference, as long as the judge pins the slower horse with the slower, lofty jump. When things start to speed up again, I bet weâll see neater, thriftier riding.
Personally, Iâm with the OP. I prefer prettier riding. It doesnât detract from the lovely horses.
[QUOTE=Thoroughbred1201;7607144]
The truth is always in the middle [/QUOTE]
Your sig line could not be more appropriate in this conversation.
[QUOTE=Nickelodian;7607156]
Your sig line could not be more appropriate in this conversation.[/QUOTE]
LOL!
[QUOTE=MHM;7607137]
Regarding grass footing, it is beautiful. And it is fun. What itâs not is durable.
If you held a nice horse show on a pretty grass field for a day or two with a reasonable number of horses, it might hold up. If you tried to run a five day show with lots of horses for multiple weeks, thatâs a whole different story. Thereâs a reason that WEF finally switched to all weather footing in every ring. The grass rings looked great for the first week or two. By the end of the seaon, there was hardly a blade of grass in sight.
And if the weather is bad, forget it. I attended Upperville some years ago when the hunter ring was still all grass. I thought it was one of the most beautiful shows I had ever seen. And it was. Until it rained. And rained. And rained and rained and rained. We packed up and went home, as did most people. It just wasnât worth the risk to the horses.[/QUOTE]
I went to one show last year where the course was on grass, with classes starting around 8am or so. By early afternoon the grass was torn up and there were huge holes in front of most of the fences. I mean huge!!!
WHen I was a kid showing hunters there were still a lot of outside courses (1980s). One week of showing and the grass rings were in pretty poor shape. I loved riding on grass when it was fresh and in good condition, but by Sunday it was often a hard, dusty mess, or it had been rained on so it was slippery. Yeah, we put up with it, but it wasnât good for the horses or for us.
There are always good and bad things to reflect upon in any sport, but this ceaseless pounding about how things were better in the old days is silly and unproductive.
Here are some things that are not like the old days in my life: I have a stereotypical TB and a stereotypical WB and I love them both- and we do a ton of dressage work. Thatâs relatively new for the H/J world. I have big, cushy saddles and I do not miss- AT ALL- my hard as a rock PDN. I love all-weather footing- it is better for my horsesâ legs. I donât do hunters anymore because I canât afford a top-drawer one and I think jumpers is a lot more fun. <â See? Things change. Much of the time itâs ok! If it isnât ok, then do something about it.
