Hunter Stallion for Quarter Horse? Input needed please!

[go_corona_go]

Hello! Longtime lurker and first time poster here.

I’ve started to learn quite a bit this forum about breeding and was hoping for some input from you very knowledgable posters.

To give a bit of background on myself and my horse…
I have been riding for about 14 years now and used to compete (when I could afford to!) on the A circuit with my horse Corona. I worked at a small show barn that also bred welsh ponies. So while I have some experience of breeding I don’t have the knowledge yet that I would like to have. So on that note if anyone could recommend reading or classes I could attend I would be very grateful! I am currently gearing up to start showing 3’ A/O again after a break due to health issues.

As she is getting older I’ve been thinking more about breeding her, possibly through ET. She is 14.2, a great little mover and can jump the moon (has jumped out of a 5’ fence a few times!). She has a wonderful temperment and has just been a fantastic horse for me all around.

I’m not hoping to breed a horse that is going to be a grand prix jumper. This would be my next horse with the hopes of doing 3’6"-3’9" hunter courses at A shows. While I like smaller horses I will need something a little bigger to make the strides at shows, which is something we sometimes have difficulty with right now.

I’m attaching both her pedigree and a (not great but all I had at the moment) photo of her.

I was drawn to Chaleon… would this be a good decision or am I going in the wrong direction? (EDIT: After reading post below this doesn’t sound like a great idea. Looking for a stallion that would fit her breed better, thanks!)

Thanks for any thoughts or opinions! And feel free to be very honest, like I said I don’t have very much experience with breeding and want to do the right thing for myself and my horse.

-Allison

http://s24.postimg.org/olcxgo7lh/IMAG0062.jpg

http://www.aqhamembers.com/IFS/2906279016004242637114000000000.html

[stoicfish]

Your mare is super cute.
Here is a synopsis of what your going to hear:

That this cross will have unpredictable results due to two very different types of horses.
You may spend money on the process, AI, and not get the results you want from the foal. (count on up to 5k with frozen)
That the market will not receive the offspring well if you have to sell.

If you are doing this for the sheer experience in breeding and having a foal that you will keep for yourself, no matter the results, then that is one thing. But if you are picking a Holsteiner because you think you are going to get a slightly bigger version of your mare that can really jump, you have a lower chance of getting that then most people think when they try this.
So if you don’t mind getting an offspring that is different than you imaged and you are willing to pay the money for the chance, then go for it. But the take home message is that you are breeding two very different types and statures and the result could be a horse by committee. And size works in weird ways also. You may not get something in-between but one or the other.

You could also lease a mare for cheap and get a foal out of a mare closer to the stallions type. Or breed your mare to a Tb or another quarter horse that has jumping potential and a similar type.
Thing with foals, and even out of homogeneous breeding stock, is that they are a bit of an unknown as to the final talent. When many people think of a cross, they take the best features of each and put them together in a best case scenario but genetics usually is not that neat. Most people that try these types of crosses wish they had done it different afterwards.
There are some people that have a breeding program that works for them and they cross stuff up but that is not the case most of the time. I know of a Qh x Wb that has a really decent jump but I know way more that are very average horses but they cost the same to make as a more talented horse. And the talented one has a very sketchy personality, not ammy friendly at all. Got the sire’s talent but a throw back to one of this more infamous ancestors temperament also.

Good luck, your mare looks really nice.

[go_corona_go]

Thank you! That is the kind of information I need to hear and learn more about.

Any suggestions for a stallion that would be better suited?

Or (a bit off topic) if I were to lease a broodmare would the broodmare usually stay on the owners property during that time? And do you have any suggestions on where to start looking for a broodmare that would fit more with a Chaleon type?

Thanks again!

[Cataluna]

I’d look into Sea Accounts if you’re really set on breeding her. He’s a TB, which is a very acceptable cross and will also allow to foal to the registered with the AQHA.

https://www.facebook.com/SeaAccounts

[Ticker]

You would be far better off purchasing an offspring from Chaleon than trying to build your own. The odds of you getting what you want for the purpose that you want will go up exponentially.

[go_corona_go]

Cataluna- Thanks, I’ll take a look!

Ticker- Good point! Do you know of any farms with Chaleon offspring currently?

And I just want to say I’m currently just exploring options. While I know I would like to bring up my next horse, I’m still trying to figure out if it would be worth it to breed my horse or just buy the offspring of someone like Ticker said. So I’m definitely open to all sorts of suggestions.

[monalisa]

Breeding is a real crap shoot. I bred my wonderful AA show WB mare to a known hunter stallion and got a wonderful mare with a ligament issue (now she’s a pasture ornament). It was an expensive process. I could have bought something for $10-15K and would have something I could ride. Luckily I keep my horses at home so the mare has a home for life. You NEVER know what you will get and what can and will go wrong.

[stoicfish]

Tell people where you are as that will affect availability of mares and really good repo vets, (get the best repo vet you can, that is a certain) and they can make suggestion for you. Leases can be with you or the owners, it depends on a ton of factors.
Not familiar with Qh’s that bring jump to the table but there are people on this board that are, they may chime in. Lots of Tb stallions that are available in NA that can jump. And if your willing to use frozen, that opens it up.

Buying is a great option if you are not hung up on breeding.
Stallion owners often know of their stallions offspring for sale. Or they might even have some.
http://crookedwillowfarms.com/contactInfo.do

[MKV]

One AQHA jumper stallion I know of is Knowtorious Son. I don’t know him personally and I don’t know how he’d cross with your mare - so just throwing him out there. I know someone who owns a mare by him and has done well in jumpers. She’s also ridden another horse by him in some hunter stuff.

http://www.freshstartfarm.com/id1.html

[sid]

[QUOTE=Cataluna;7609888]
I’d look into Sea Accounts if you’re really set on breeding her. He’s a TB, which is a very acceptable cross and will also allow to foal to the registered with the AQHA.

https://www.facebook.com/SeaAccounts[/QUOTE]

Ditto this.

[Ysabel]

flame suit zipped

At the risk of getting flamed – I actually really like Quarter Horse and Warmblood crosses when done right. I have a ¾ QH x ¼ Morgan mare who always gives me lovely foals (an no one believes me when I tell her what breed she is) – here is a link to photos of her: Icy Poodles

There is also another lady locally who bred her KWPN stallion for years to many WB, TB, etc, but his most successful offspring were out of her Quarter Horse broodmare. The cross produced many local hunters and jumpers, in fact, out of all his offspring it was one from the QH mare that she kept as her own jumper mare (and she turns down offers all the time for the mare).

I have seen many (MANY!) train wrecks of this cross as well – but I usually find these were mostly out of QH mares who were not good candidates for sport horse breeding (halter and western pleasure types, or mares who just have terrible conformation). It is also important to look at the pedigree of the QH mare - I like to see lots of ranch, reining, and/or race breeding in the pedigree and steer clear of the other less athletic halter and pleasure bloodlines. When done right the cross can yield a horse with the heart, brains, and handiness of the QH and the increased athleticism of the WB – basically a nice all round sport horses for your average amateur rider.

All that being said – if you think you can cross a QH with a WB and sell it for a profit you would be terribly mistaken! The only way I would be an enabler for someone thinking about producing such a cross would be if they plan to keep the offspring for themselves, or raise the horse to the age where they campaign it under saddle before selling it – my experience is that hunter and jumper riders/trainers don’t care what the breeding of the horse is if it can win ribbons in the show ring (especially of they can pack a kid or novice around safely), but even then you will come no where near the selling price of a purebred WB. Or be prepared to take a BIG loss on the horse if you sell it as a youngster.

If you do decide to breed her I do like the suggestion of using a TB stallion (this would mean your offspring could be registered – making them more valuable). However if you go that route I would make sure that you use a very old style TB stallion (one with lots of bone, good gaits, and uphill movement). This is the reason I always go the WB route because I always want to improve on my mares shoulder, and uphill build.

My suggestion for crossing WB stallions with QH mares would be to pick a stallion that is more dual purpose. I always work with the assumption that you will need to improve on the QH mare’s movement – so I pick a stallion with both jump and dressage in their pedigree, or a pedigree with jump stallions who have proven they can also produce dressage horses (i.e. Viva Voltaire, Grannus, Contender, etc.).

I am no expert – this is just my 2 cents – take it for what it is worth.

I used Schwarzenegger this year and I could not be happier with my resulting colt: Superbad

[EquineLVR]

I agree with staying with a TB for the first time to see what you get.

Sea Accounts is a great suggestion.

I also like Salute The Truth and A Fine Romance (I believe Fred has some frozen)

Gatsby might also be interesting since he is 1/2 TB.

[Ysabel]

I just though of another QH mare that is a good example of “if you have the right mare” - I have a friend that competed in the upper level jumping classes with her 14.3hh QH mare (against the best horses in the region) - and no one could beat her. The mare was a crowd favourite because often the jumps were taller than her - so if she was jumping a fence coming towards you couldn’t even see her until she jumped the fence! And she always left room to spare, turned on a dime, never refused, and would turn herself inside out to avoid hitting a jump. She was super fun! Her oldest offspring is now 7 years old (by a Trakehner stallion), and he is has also been winning consistently in the jumper and hunter rings. The owner also events him. This year he will be competing in the 1.3m Jumpers and in Preliminary Eventing. The mare (IMHO) was the right candidate for producing sport horses - proven ability, ranch horse lines, and good conformation. But the owner does not breed her to sell the offspring - she keeps them for herself - there is no money to made in breeding this cross.

[x]

I would recommend looking at a TB or Appendix QH for the cross…especially if you look into TBs that are known to cross well with the QH. Then you’ll have a registered foal, and a TB typically crosses well to the QH. Sometimes the warmblood crosses o.k. and sometimes it doesn’t.

[HorseKrazy]

My AQHA is such a mutt, lol. She has race, reining, foundation and halter breeding… I briefly considered a warmblood cross breeding for her due to her temperament. Fortunately, in my case, I took a step back and a hard look and realized there was just too much I would be asking the stallion to improve on. Not saying this is the case with the op’s mare, just my mare.

I would strongly consider a cross that historically is more predictable/successful like an appendix. That would also ‘potentially’ make it more marketable IMO.

I second (third) Sea Accounts!

[stoicfish]

http://www.superiorequinesires.com/stallions/favoritasxx.shtml

http://www.superiorequinesires.com/stallions/mightymagic.shtml

Not sure about hunter movement.

[go_corona_go]

Thanks again to everyone who has replied! Lots of great information here.

Yes, I am planning to keep the offspring for myself, not looking to sell.

I like the idea of crossing with a TB and will check into all suggestions posted when I get home from work.

While I know it’s not the norm to see a full QH being successful in the upper levels of hunters… would anyone have any suggestions for a QH stallion? I found a QH that has competed a little in hunters, any QH folks out there that could give me an opinion on So Riveting? And how he might match with my mare?
http://www.charolotranch.com/soriveting.html

Thanks again! You guys are great!

[ladyj79]

If you’re breeding a qh to a wb to produce a hunter, I wouldn’t breed to a “hunter” stallion. Breed to something like Bon Balou (http://www.dreamscapefarm.com/HorseDetail.aspx?ID=566)

[bugsynskeeter]

[QUOTE=go corona go;7611535]
Thanks again to everyone who has replied! Lots of great information here.

Yes, I am planning to keep the offspring for myself, not looking to sell.

I like the idea of crossing with a TB and will check into all suggestions posted when I get home from work.

While I know it’s not the norm to see a full QH being successful in the upper levels of hunters… would anyone have any suggestions for a QH stallion? I found a QH that has competed a little in hunters, any QH folks out there that could give me an opinion on So Riveting? And how he might match with my mare?
http://www.charolotranch.com/soriveting.html

Thanks again! You guys are great![/QUOTE]

I don’t believe So Riveting stands at Charolot any more…I haven’t been overly wowed with any of his foals.

Might want to look into:

Un Forgettable
Larks Oneforthemoney
Sky’s Blue Boy bred stallions (Its All About Blue, etc)
These Irons Are Hot

[Go_Fish]

Although the photo makes it a little difficult to see her conformation, she looks to be showing her Corona Cody side. We had a daughter of Corona Cody out of a King Fritz mare and they look very similar.

Nothing in her pedigree screams size. While the “Codys” were more on the light side, they were never known to produce horses much over 15 hands. With the exception of one race horse, there’s no size in the rest of her pedigree, either.

Another obstacle will be length of stride. While you mention that your mare’s a good jumper, I’ll bet she struggles getting down the line and out of an in-and-out.

All that being said, I agree that selecting a TB would be the right choice. I love A Fine Romance and he seems to produce what your mare lacks. He’s a proven producer in multiple disciplines. Give Gail a call and see if there’s frozen available…also confirm with her that he’s on file with the AQHA - I believe he is.

As a side note, I would disagree with Ysabel about crossing a WB on your mare. If there were more TB in her pedigree, I might take a chance. But with her breeding, I wouldn’t do it. Stick to a TB, in my opinion.