Hunters for Dummies

[Live_Wire]

Long story short… HELP.

I’m an eventer. I’m not aiming for LA28 but I like to think I’m a fairly competent and sympathetic rider, almost to a fault. So what brings me to the H/J forum? I’ll tell you. I have an OTTB who is the quintessential hunter. She’s lovely. So here I am. Let me tell you. I suck at huntering. It’s very humbling. I’m making my lovely sweet mare hate me and it’s breaking my heart.

I’m taking lessons from someone who is more than capable of whipping me into shape, and I will ultimately defer questions to her, but first I must over analyze.

Where do I put my hands? No but seriously. It’s seems so simple, but where do I put my gosh darn hands. She’s sensitive (i sold her, took her back, yada, yada, trauma) so I’m told not to touch her face, but then my reins are too long. I’m confused. Is this something I need to clarify with my trainer or is this like the basics that I just can’t grasp?

Is it normal to feel like you’re unbalanced and out of control coming down a line when they’re green? I get it, stay out of their way, but I have had more near death experiences trying to canter a figure eight than I have over intermediate cross country.

The half seat, or is it two point? Do we half seat, or two point? I have a hot seat, and my little pea brain is in overdrive, so I think my seat is making matters worse. I generally ride long because I was born with dislocated hips and naturally have more tension than a normal person should. I try not to use physical ailments as an excuse, but I can seem to get my butt back in a half seat, but if I’m in two point I feel like my body is totally ineffective.

Break it down for me because I think I’m going to cry. I love this mare and I want to do her justice, but i feel like I’m ruining her. I am really good at self-loathing.

[HipNo34]

Life-long hunter rider and fellow self-loather here. Just swinging by to drop off a hug and follow along for the half seat discussion.

I struggle with staying tall, light, and out of the way. And when it’s okay to sit. Recent clinician recommended the book Judging WTF, particularly on topics related to how much of a seat you should be sitting, so to speak. Already owned the book, just hadn’t dug into it yet. You may want to grab it yourself, if you haven’t already.

[Renn_aissance]

Your job when riding a good hunter is to put the horse in a position to excel while not obviously interfering with her. You can do this! But you’ll be able to do it better when she’s not a green wiggly youngster still figuring this whole thing out. For now, your mission is to teach her how to go forward, come back, turn left, and turn right. Once she’s got that, you proceed to teaching her how to do all those things while maintaining her own balance with less and less input from you. This will take awhile because it requires strength and mobility and they don’t happen overnight. But what I’ve just described is “dressage” and you’re an eventer so you already know how to do that!

Take your question about your hands to your trainer. “Stay out of her face” probably means “don’t interfere, let her figure it out” but we can’t see you ride.

It is normal for young horses to wiggle wildly and lose their power steering. That’s babies in baby bodies being babies. They grow out of it.

Two point and half seat are the same thing. You might want to talk with your trainer about what your seat is doing, and a physical therapist about how to maximize your control over your pelvic muscles so that you have the strength and mobility to use your seat effectively.

One of the best books I know about riding hunters is Schooling and Riding the Sport Horse by Paul Cronin. Your trainer probably doesn’t want you to go back to elementary controls on this horse, but the book outlines the general principles of training for a hunter and describes the general training progression that gets them there, along with riding skills and techniques. You might look that up- a lot will feel familiar to the skillset you already have and it might give you confidence that you know enough to bring this nice horse along, with tincture of time and some adaptations to your toolbox.

Show us a picture of the cute mare! It’s going to be okay. You will not ruin her. It sounds like this is young horses being young horses and (excuse me, I am one) ammy riders with nice young horses being ammy riders.

[Trekkie]

As a former event rider turned adult ammy hunter rider I struggled with many of the same things you are. We event riders are accustomed to using our seat as an aid all the time–in the hunters it all comes from the leg and very minimal seat. If it helps you to minimize your seat aid stay in two point (half seat) and don’t shove with your seat off the ground. Use leg to support. Hands stay low and soft but keep a gentle contact but not the frame you are accustomed to as an event rider. A following soft contact will help you steer and balance without throwing the reins totally away, but you are not trying to jam your horse up into a frame. Let her poke her nose out and keep a soft contact and feel with that. Hunters may look easy but it is very very hard. The key is to help the horse balance and hold a soft adjustable canter and keep a very even pace and rhythm in that soft canter. Aids are subtle and the body is still. It was very hard for me to adjust to this ride after eventing. I am finally getting it but it took a long time. Your eye also needs to adjust to your new position and softness. Big moves are the enemy. You will do fine and so will your horse.

[mroades]

Short reins, long arms! Have you tried riding a liitle bit with a neck strap? It can be life changing

[Chestnut24]

I find this discussion so interesting from a mirrored perspective! I grew up / learned riding in 1980s/90s Hunter-Eq context, and now as an older adult find it hard to figure out the feel of dressage-based, putting the horse in a frame from the start type of jumpers, where I currently am at. I find I always want to sneak back to hunter feeling, when my trainer is not looking or out of town.

How to describe that… keep a light contact and letting the horse seek it, to stretch his neck and raise his back. Keeping the pace constant and an active leg so he can do it, without pushing him into it. (Once a dressage trainer asked me, “so are you just waiting that he takes the contact?!” And I was like “yeah!”) …staying off his back, with an inner (active) calmness.

I am curious what sort of exercises your trainer will come up with to convey the feeling. I do empathize a lot about trying to learn a manner of riding different than the one that is ‘native’ to you. I think watching other riders can help a lot (also videos), maybe your trainer could demonstrate a bit what she means?

[ZuzusPetals]

@HipNo34

Life-long hunter rider and fellow self-loather here. Just swinging by to drop off a hug and follow along for the half seat discussion.

Can I get in on this hug? I really blow at hunters. And jumpers, come to think of it.

God, what am I even doing.

[HipNo34]

Hugs for EVERYBODY!

[Ponyplusaninch]

and grab mane! Like 5 strides before the fence grab mane! It’s incredibly telling with a neck strap/grabbing mane/grabbing martingale how much we like to pick at our horses to get to the distance. And in hunters, you ideally want it to look like the horse just took himself there to the perfect distance without a lot of encouragement or effort. Way way way easier said than done.

[phoenixrises]

seriously how do you grab mane and keep your shoulders back, my horses head is not up in the air it’s a ways down there.

[Live_Wire]

I’m glad I’m not the only one who thinks this way!

[Live_Wire]

Thank you all for your encouragement, commiseration, and tokens of advice! You’ve given me some homework and momentum to keep trying!

I unfortunately don’t have any great pictures, but won’t turn down and opportunity to show off my girl!

@Renn_aissance per your request, this is little Miss Piggy!

ETA: she has a proper hunter set now, standing martingale and all!

[dags]

@phoenixrises

seriously how do you grab mane and keep your shoulders back, my horses head is not up in the air it’s a ways down there.

Close your hip angle instead of dropping your shoulders. Take the weight a bit forward over your knee and out of your heel. Not so much so that you get ahead of the motion, but shifting your weight a wee bit towards the wither and off the back. Hover there-- It should be a balance game at this point… ie, leg should be soft and not actively keeping you on top of the horse. This is where hunters get tricky and has high lawn dart potential

[Live_Wire]

Can i ask a dumb question? I’m embarrassed to ask and please don’t ask me how I’ve successfully navigated intermediate without knowing…. Can you clarify the mechanics of closing your hip angle? Don’t roast me.

[dags]

Absolutely no roasting! But excuse my rather shoddy graphics. Hip angle is the angle resulting from closeness of torso to thigh. Over the fence, the hip angle is very “closed” like this:

(note chest is still lifted and shoulders are still back. Seat has slid back to allow angle to close but leg is still under rider, not out in front. Weight over a soft knee instead of a deep heel)

In a typical three-point, the hip-angle is far more open:

The two-point will fall somewhere in the middle of those:

[phoenixrises]

Closing your hip angle still lowers your shoulders. That’s just what happens when you bend at the waist?

I mean that’s what I do over the fence but if I’m grabbing mane 5 strides before my hip has to allow that.

As shown by those lovely pictures above. The 2 point has the shoulder significantly lower than the 3 point. Over the fence I find that fine riding up heck no

[dags]

@phoenixrises

Closing your hip angle still lowers your shoulders.

Yes, grabbing mane will get your shoulders closer to the neck, no way around that. I thought you meant the shoulders were rolling forward/collapsing over the chest to grab mane, instead of closing the hip angle.

@phoenixrises

The 2 point has the shoulder significantly lower than the 3 point. Over the fence I find that fine riding up heck no

Yes it definitely requires a bit of trust in the animal and that is obviously not always an option

[phoenixrises]

I think I’ve just ridden too many stoppers not sure you’re ever getting that one out of me. I’d much rather ride in the back seat.

[HipNo34]

I feel you on this.
I have a habit of jamming my heel down in a way that doesn’t actually help with stability – I think it’s me over-compensating because I used to stand on my toe in my youth. And of course I got lawn darted badly more than once.

Apologies if someone else shared this already but it’s a timely FB post. A clinician I’ve gotten to work with a couple times discusses this athletic crouch, too. It addresses the stability issue. Warning, though, there are GM references.

Bob Wood Horses For Life

[paw]

“Grab mane” to me means abandoning the horse. Which is fine for certain horses - ones that know their jobs or are scared of being caught in the mouth, but for some horses, being ridden to the bit most of the way to the fence and then “dropped” is very scary.

Keep your hands where they are. A “following hand and arm” (aka automatic release) used to be the pinnacle of hunter riding, and there’s no good reason that it isn’t that today. You need to remind your mare that a steady contact isn’t a bad thing - that’s not going to happen overnight or without some (hopefully not much) drama.

And no, a green horse shouldn’t feel unbalanced and out of control for more than a few strides (and certainly not when presented to more than a pole on the ground). Go back and fix the issues you have with contact and balance before you go jumping things.

Forward into the bit is your goal.