Yeah they sure do…
not exactly the same, but a huge reason my old trainer didn’t like full cheek bits. The extra bit of control (in my case) isn’t worth what an itchy horse can catch it on…the list never ends once you start thinking about it.
Oh, horses.
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I agree that this is more often the case than not. Grooms and the trainers are often the only ones who know the absolute truth of what goes on. And if it isn’t drugs, it’s lunging. Many owners truly have no idea what their horse has done before they put their foot in the stirrup.
It’s the reality at the top of the show hunter game. Not talking backyard people either, talking every aisle in the permanent barns at thermal.
Jumpers are slightly different, but absolutely have their flaws.
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Oh shocking, a thread about hunters riding on grass and turned into yet another thread about making broad statements about how every hunter in the world is either lunged to death or drugged.
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Which post said that ?
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I didn’t necessarily bring it up. But people claiming their trainer is the exception is…just not realistic.
I’ll go back on topic and say pulling the shoes for grass shows would give you the best traction without using studs.
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So you are saying that all trainers drug and LTD and anyone who says their horse is not drugged or LTD is just not realistic? Just want to make sure I am reading that right.
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Barefoot still entirely depends on the footing. Multiple people have said their barefoot horses have slipped on a very different grass footing. Not to mention, a lot of horses should never have shoes pulled just to jump in a grass arena, Hunters or not, as they’d be sore as heck.
I DO subscribe to the idea that you can do some interesting things with bars on bare feet, trimming to allow a bit more bar material to provide a bit more grip, but it’s a tricky thing to time right and do well, and it still isn’t going to work well on footing that’s too hard-packed
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Plenty of trainer behavior (or misbehavior) results from unrealistic owner or rider expectations and lack of knowledge. And so SOME trainers over prep SOME horses so they can be ridden by the amateur rider and be “successful”. Each horse is different on different days and different years and so requires a modified prep to achieve a certain soft hunter round with an ammy rider. If all the riders would become more knowledgeable about their horses, appropriate horses for the job, better riders, there to hack the horse the day before, the morning of etc the horses and trainers would not get blamed and everyone would be better off. It falls on the owner/riders to take responsibility for educating themselves and having more realistic expectations if the over prepped horses will become a thing of the past. Unfortunately and realistically this will never happen. So instead of perseverating about the need for studs on grass (plenty of horses can jump just fine on dry short grass with no studs, in my opinion, if the ground is not rock hard slick) and blaming trainers for over prepping horses maybe all of us owner/riders need to take responsibility for becoming better horsemen and women and understanding our individual animals and what makes them tick, and accepting they are individuals and maybe they don’t all go around like a damn machine every day.
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No, because I’ve ridden with both types of trainers. So I do know it is possible. But I feel like people are completely dismissing an absolute fact about our industry because their trainer may be the exception. I was also just pointing out that not every client knows 100% what their trainer is doing to prep their horse. Unless you groom your own horse at every show and don’t allow anyone to handle it.
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I should’ve said no shoes is what gives you the best traction* and exactly because of the second half of your statement.
Ironically pulling shoes for flat class has apparently become a hunter fad, also?? Back in my day we had steel shoes at home and aluminum at the shows for the same purpose.
A “fad” since at least 1982…
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Maybe it’s an area thing…I’d never heard of that in the PNW. Even my old school trainers from the Midwest and CA did steel and then aluminum.
Maybe it depends on how much of a hack winner you are on.
My horse wore aluminum. We never bothered pulling shoes for the hacks because though he was amazing he was not even close to the hack winner. We did the hack because paying for the division was cheaper than paying for just the jumping classes and heck, we were there so might as well WTC in a class while we are all dressed up.
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One of my horses got the pointy part of a full cheek bit stuck on the side of his lip when being ridden. It cut him and required stitches. Not a life changing injury (he showed a week later) but still a sucky emergency vet bill
Every aisle? What crowd have you been hanging out with?
Admittedly there are some bad actors, as unfortunately there are in every niche of equestrian sport, but your statement is a slam against many very kind, ethical horsemen and women.
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I totally agree that there is oftentimes a lack of awareness of what goes into prepping the horses, unless the riders ask and then they still may not get a straight answer! At the same time, it is without question that over-lunging and pounding from showing too much or in too many classes, too much jumping at home, and too many bad distances makes them lame and then they are not good for much for trainers who want to have a barn of good show hunters. This coupled with the fact that there are very few made hunters out there appropriate for most juniors and amateurs leads many trainers to try to preserve them and to keep them going as much as possible. For instance, cantering the horses instead of lunging them, or lunging them for 10 minutes and then cantering them, showing in two professional warmup classes instead of an entire division, no warmup class for junior/amateur or no classic, etc… I have ridden in the PNW with less ethical trainers than I ride with now (east coast, of course there must be sketchy people over here!), but even in the first case, in the 1990s!, they had some sense not to murder the horses to get them to the ring so they wouldn’t be lame for the next show. Though there were just not many shows to go to in the PNW, so that is also a factor in how the horses were prepared and generally lived.
You didn’t know that people have been pulling shoes to hack for 40 years, but are also convinced that my trainer is drugging and LTD my horses without my knowledge…
Just to clear that one up, I get billed for any meds so I’m well aware of what they are getting. Which isn’t much outside some gastroguard, and bute or banamine if they are at a week-long show.
I know how each of my horses is prepped because I’m the one who sends them out with the grooms in the morning for a lunge, gets on and plays “human lunge line” if they need it, or just takes them for a nice tack walk around the grounds to stretch and loosen up. I know how the other horses are prepped because I sit on a lot of them prior to their owners arriving on weekends (the joys of working remote). So yes, literally the totality of “prep” in our barn usually involves another amateur doing some flatwork and popping over a few small jumps, because we buy horses that are suitable for their amateur or child owners.
If you show up and actually watch at any barn, there aren’t really a lot of secrets.
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Just a thought…they could ask? I worked at a barn where many of the horses got a show morning lunge or an early hack in the ring. Some clients were aware, and would ask if the horse was lunged or got in the ring that morning. Others didn’t know (or care) and never asked. Some found out because it would be casually mentioned in front of them (someone saying “do you want me to bring Dobbin to the ring after his lunge or take him back to the stalls?”). It wasn’t the dirty secret you seem to think it is. Contrary to your belief, most people aren’t conspiring to sneak horses out to lunge and then stuffing them back into their stalls before owners arrive in order to conceal it.
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