Hypothetical - how would you price this horse?

[Zevida]

11 y/o half Arab under 16h ammy friendly with no show record $25k
Take it to a show and get some good 3rd level scores with confirmed changes $45-50k
Take it to a show and get good PSG scores $65-75k
Place well at regionals at PSG then you might start getting to $100k

The reality is you prove the value through showing, and that’s what most people who buy a horse of this level want to do - show and get scores towards medals. Finding a buyer who has that kind of money to spend just for a horse for schooling would be pretty rare.

As to what makes a horse confirmed at a levle, I’ve had trainers, big name ones, think I’m ready for the next level because I can work through the movements in schooling - but I can barely put them together for a test and was definitely not mastered the current level enough to move up. Getting a test score is the closest thing to an objective way to confirm a horse’s competency at a level.

[BigMama1]

@Amberley

I think a lot of people on this thread have either not bought a horse recently or do not shop at this level and have no idea how few quiet, rideable, sound, reasonably size small tour horses there are for sale.

This.

[Long_Time_Lurker]

Without video or a show record, people will hear half Arab and think choppy canter and hurried walk and trot. If the owner wants to establish a value on a horse not for sale, say for insurance purposes, it would help a lot to do two things:

1. Take the horse to a few shows with the pro riding just to get proven scores.
2. Apply for registration as an American Warmblood. A friend has a very nice half Arab registered that way that has won All Breeds awards.

Otherwise you have an unproven grade horse. May be nice, but you can’t demonstrate value in any objective way. If the owner could insure the horse for $40,000-$50,000 instead of $20,000-$25,000 that would be worth the investment in a few shows and a registration fee.
Regarding size, I think many AAs would like this size so not a negative for that market.

[Zevida]

@Amberley

I think a lot of people on this thread have either not bought a horse recently or do not shop at this level and have no idea how few quiet, rideable, sound, reasonably size small tour horses there are for sale.

Most of us are quibbling with the definition of a small tour horse. Without a show record to back it up, it’s all conjecture. If the horse had a confirmed small tour show record then the price would absolutely be in the higher 5s.

[AnnaKarena92]

I think the difference between schooling/local, regional, and FEI Small tour PSG somewhere like Wellington as far as quality of training, type/style of horse, and quality of gaits needs to be addressed as the value of a horse is vastly different between these “levels” of PSG. Just because a horse is schooling movements does not mean that they will be competitive at that level. People buy horses to compete, especially at the higher prices, if the horse is not of sufficient quality to be competitive at PSG…it is not going to get the price.

So far we have heard that this horse is solid 4th and schooling PSG, it’s solid PSG, it’s schooling I2. Without a qualified 3rd party attesting to it’s training level (clinician or judge), we have no idea. The horse could very well be 3rd level and plays with some higher level movements with a skilled trainer. Can this horse do the upper level movements with an amateur? We don’t know.

Also needing to be addressed on price is the bloodlines. Is the Arabian portion of this mare good quality and approved by a Warmblood registry? Or is it a lower quality Arab that someone bred to a WB stallion to create a Sporthorse. Did they breed appropriately so that the traits of both parents compliment each other or did they breed to “the name” and call it a day?

I have seen some very, very nice half and full blood Arabian dressage horses and I have absolutely nothing against them.

However, with the limited and somewhat conflicting information we have been given, it is impossible to agree that this horse is worth high five or six figures.

If the owner is looking to insure the horse, they should probably have it professionally appraised to establish insurance value. Otherwise, the horse is worth what someone will pay for it. And, again, this does not mean that she isn’t a lovely horse who is loved dearly by her owner who is proud of her horse doing upper level movements with the trainer. It’s ok to love your horse and be proud of them. You don’t need a bunch of random people on the internet to put a dollar value on a horse you aren’t going to sell. Just be proud of her for giving it her all and being a willing partner for the type of riding you want to do.

[2tempe]

@Zevida

11 y/o half Arab under 16h ammy friendly with no show record $25k
Take it to a show and get some good 3rd level scores with confirmed changes $45-50k
Take it to a show and get good PSG scores $65-75k
Place well at regionals at PSG then you might start getting to $100k

The reality is you prove the value through showing, and that’s what most people who buy a horse of this level want to do - show and get scores towards medals. Finding a buyer who has that kind of money to spend just for a horse for schooling would be pretty rare.

I shopped two years ago and I was the market somewhat closely. It seems the above numbers make sense, though I would say multiple shows, not just “a” show.
I prefer a smaller horse. There is a subset of amateurs that do also. Some might be less attracted to the Arab side of this horse (the off breed thing) IF the horse were to be sold, marketing as a Dutch cross would probably attract more interest. Show results not only “confirm” where the horse is in its training, they indicate that said horse can travel to different locations without turning into a fire breathing dragon or other horse stupidities, which would be important to any ammy rider.

[ToN_Farm]

@AnnaKarena92

People buy horses to compete, especially at the higher prices, if the horse is not of sufficient quality to be competitive at PSG…it is not going to get the price.

What do you consider competitive? Do you think that most AA’s competing at 4th+ think they are going to be competitive considering the very stiff competition at those levels? I think many AA’s are happy to just be able to show at those levels and not get an embarrasing score. Ditto everything @Zevida wrote.

[AnnaKarena92]

In FL, to be in the top 10 with a competent rider (its not all the horse). Outside of FL, top 5.

[NC001]

I totally agree with this!

Saying $15-20 for this horse is nuts. If its ammy friendly and can work at those levels, there is nothing on the market anywhere close to those prices.

[Zevida]

@AnnaKarena92

In FL, to be in the top 10 with a competent rider (its not all the horse). Outside of FL, top 5.

There’s even quite a lot of variance here. I am a very average ammy on an average horse with very average scores and I showed at Global at 4th level with top 5 finishes (for ammy, still top 10 if you look at the whole class). No one would mistake us for a six figure pair!

Now if by “Florida” you mean the small tour CDIs then yeah. There could be 20+ horses in those classes and a top 5 finish would be impressive.

[eurofoal]

I’d say this horse should be priced between $30-45K. Definitely not 6 figures unless it’s showing, and, as others have said, getting an objective evaluation on it’s schooling level and talent. OTOH, if it can truly get a good to great score consistantly at PSG, with just about anybody in the tack, is sound, vets, and not even teenaged yet… well, that is a nearly impossible horse to find and worth plenty, especially on either coast. A dream to ride, pretty, well trained… priceless!

This scenario has plenty of variables. Most have been mentioned, but I’ll share my main ones: Arabs have a stigma. It’s small, but many riders are looking for small. Shown in Rancho Santa Fe or Wellington, cleaned up and well ridden, the price is going to be very different than if it’s on a podunk ranch somewhere and the dusty arena has jumps and barrels in it.

[outerbanks77]

@NC001

Saying $15-20 for this horse is nuts. If its ammy friendly and can work at those levels, there is nothing on the market anywhere close to those prices.

Yeah, in my market research, the least expensive 2nd level horse I could find was a grade teenage pony for $15K. I’m sure there are others out there, but something you have a chance of earning a bronze on that won’t likely need to be retired in three years, is going to be closer to mid 5’s from what I’ve seen.

[J-Lu]

I agree. I don’t own the horse and once learned the Dutch bloodlines which was quit good, but I don’t know the Arab bloodlines, as I previously posted.

The horse doesn’t show but works with a trainer. Ignore my semantics in response to others. The horse is at least PSG, which means it is at least 4th, right? No, you have no objective viewpoint as i mentioned early in the thread. I explained this early in the thread.

I’ve said that we’re looking for opinions. Hopefully on this thread, random internet people can provide a knowledgeable guess. That’s what I’m asking. Period. If you (g) can’t comply, please don’t reply to this thread.

[StB.YM]

Here’s a comparable listing. She’s an American Warmblood (sire seems to be a Hanoverian, not sure about dam), close in height, marketed as safe and sensible and AA friendly, confirmed 4th level, and schooling FEI. Only different is she has test scores and all the levels.

(ETA: actually, dam is an Oldenburg, so she’s a WB, not a cross).

https://warmblood-sales.com/horse/benettona

[2tempe]

https://warmblood-sales.com/horse/chiefs-destiny-smp Not sure what the other half is.

[ToN_Farm]

Price right, imo.

[J-Lu]

Oh Man. The horse went from Training level to PSG in 3 years? And is schooling piaffe/passage? To me, she was pushed hard and this is a recipe for disaster/unsoundness.

[2tempe]

Yes I saw that Given the mare was already 10 when this person got her, I presumed she already had much of the training on her. But as I re-read, it doesn’t sound that way. Lot of miles for sure.

[BigMama1]

@J-Lu

Oh Man. The horse went from Training level to PSG in 3 years? And is schooling piaffe/passage? To me, she was pushed hard and this is a recipe for disaster/unsoundness.

That would bother me in a baby but not in an older horse who is physically mature and has good basic training.

[4wdNstraight]

Agree here. PSG horse with a well started Pi/Pa that an AA can ride do not fall off trees in the US. If you can find one with 3 good (not world beater but good) gaits you can definitely ask $100k. I am guessing most people have not been shopping in this country lately. I do think some scores would need justify the cost, but $20-40k is a joke unless it will absolutely not pass a PPE in a significant way. It doesn’t matter what the breed is at this point in the training as much as what a horse can actually do. 12 years old is really the tipping point too. 13 and up you have to start to value down from an insurance perspective according to a friend of mine who has a small tour CDI horse.