Hypothetical Sport Horse Breeding From Today's TB Racing Stallions

[skydy]

Choosing from current/recent TB race horse sires. (I realize that no one is interested in F1 for anything other than perhaps eventing). Looking at conformation and assuming the mare was sport horse bred and type and that stallion would reproduce his best attributes.

Obviously no one would be paying these fees to breed a sport horse.

Strictly hypothetical and looking at the physical. There aren’t so many who’s conformation would be desirable, but some look pretty good …

What about; http://www.adenastallions.com/horses/fort-larned.html ?

http://www.adenastallions.com/horses/capo-bastone-17708.html

http://www.adenastallions.com/horses/city-wolf-17177.html

These horses are all from the same farm and are not their highest priced race sires.

I am going to go from farm to farm online to see what else I can find just for fun. I think there may be a few to be found at many of the big farms.

Any favorites (conformation wise) of current TB race stallions? Criticisms of my first group at this farm? I don’t worry that racing TB farms will be concerned if we scrutinize their offerings. Sport horse breeders are not their market.

Stud fee no object. We are hypothetical, looking for sport horse (will default to mostly eventing) conformation.

[PeteyPie]

Mr. Broad Blade by Broad Brush. I don’t know what you are looking for in conformation, but he’s pretty and I think he has a good pedigree for sport:
http://www.magalifarms.com/stalions/view/13/Mr.+Broad+Blade

[vineyridge]

The way to look is to google by state. There are some stallions that are very far off the radar. Just because a horse is a speedy dirt horse does not mean that it’s worth breeding for sport. Stallions are often imported and fail to match with American TB dirt lines. That doesn’t mean that they wouldn’t make good sport foals. Adena Canada had a stallion from Germany named Musketier for a year or so. I drooled over him. He’s now part of the Calumet collection.
http://www.calumetfarm.com/stallions/musketier-ger

Calumet seems to price none of their Kentucky stallions at less than $7500, so out of range of sport horse breeders.

[ladyj79]

I had a dove hunt gelding and a grand circus park gelding and Id take five more of those two. Or a dozen.

Given the quality I saw them produce if I had a mare who needed refining and I wanted to breed to a racing bred tb, id go with ones I’ve seen produce good tempered, well conformed offspring.

Of these i know giants causeway has gained some notoriety among sport tb enthusiasts.

[Elles]

I am jealous that you have so many Thoroughbreds in your country!

[skydy]

I like this guy; https://www.darleyamerica.com/stallions/our-stallions/animal-kingdom

[skydy]

[QUOTE=vineyridge;8854749]
The way to look is to google by state. There are some stallions that are very far off the radar. Just because a horse is a speedy dirt horse does not mean that it’s worth breeding for sport. Stallions are often imported and fail to match with American TB dirt lines. That doesn’t mean that they wouldn’t make good sport foals. Adena Canada had a stallion from Germany named Musketier for a year or so. I drooled over him. He’s now part of the Calumet collection.
http://www.calumetfarm.com/stallions/musketier-ger

Calumet seems to price none of their Kentucky stallions at less than $7500, so out of range of sport horse breeders.[/QUOTE]

Yes, it doesn’t follow. That is why none of my picks for conformation are the top sires of the day.
So many of the best race horse sires are not of the type one would breed to for any purpose but flat racing (so down hill for one thing). The odd steeple chaser will pop up now and again with some known better than others for that and the national hunt stallions outside of the U.S. are better at that.

The mare matters so much.

Some top sires do produce some lovely offspring though, when by looking at them you wouldn’t guess that they would. Goes to show you never can tell…

[skydy]

[QUOTE=PeteyPie;8854747]
Mr. Broad Blade by Broad Brush. I don’t know what you are looking for in conformation, but he’s pretty and I think he has a good pedigree for sport:
http://www.magalifarms.com/stalions/view/13/Mr.+Broad+Blade[/QUOTE]

I’m looking only for entertainment, no other reason.

He’s very nice!

[Elles]

Probably no longer among us and not in America:
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=10110798&blood=10&quota=

[skydy]

Elles, the link doesn’t work.

Your horse is lovely!

I think it is interesting to look at TB stallions bred for racing (as most american TBs are) and see where the differences lie between good sport horse conformation and the type that is bred for racing speed and precocity.

They are not mutually exclusive however breeding for soundness and longevity seem to be not an important goal for some breeders and that has become an issue with some bloodlines in the U.S.

There are many breeders who do care yet there are many who take the short term commercial route, without the consideration for the breed that it deserves.

Everyone knows that there are some shockingly ill conformed racehorse sires in the U.S. I am, for the experience , looking around online to find examples of the well conformed sporthorse type.

There are some stallions that I like the look of for flat racing, but would not consider if trying to produce a sport horse. They are well built for racing and not the badly put together horses I mentioned.

All hypothetical. I am not breeding horses.

I’ve been watching the Keeneland yearling sale and it has me thinking.

[Elles]

Does this link work: http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?showpic=10110798&time=1439125103&z=53D0FA
It is the horse Even Top and he also has Ahonoora in his pedigree, just like Animal Kingdom.

[skydy]

[QUOTE=Elles;8854823]
Does this link work: http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?showpic=10110798&time=1439125103&z=53D0FA
It is the horse Even Top and he also has Ahonoora in his pedigree, just like Animal Kingdom.[/QUOTE]

Yes that one works. He is handsome. You mentioned he is no longer with us? Oh, I see he died in 2009. He had so few progeny…

It’s a shame that almost no one is interested in breeding the TB sport horse lines. I know some breeders have (take a bow Fred!) worked tirelessly to promote good TB breeding, producing mostly eventers when the mainstream TB world is definitely all about flat racing , at least it is in the U.S.

Our LaurieB is an excellent example of a conscientious breeder who does breed TB race horses.

I think the talent , both human and equine is there. Unfortunately as is true in many instances in life, economics win for the short term and the breed has issues in the long term.

In the meantime I’m interested to see which horses everyone else likes, from a conformation, soundness and longevity standpoint.

[beowulf]

If Say Florida Sandy was still standing, I’d breed to him in a heartbeat. He had 101 starts and has the pedigree and conformation for sport. He is the epitome of a classic stayer.

He produces VERY consistently. Sound, sound, sound - almost perfect conformation, powerful HQ and very good movers, born broke and quiet – and that’s with an okay mare. With a good mare, he always outproduces himself from what I’ve seen (from a sport perspective). In my opinion it’s such a shame he did not enjoy success commercially because if his line dies out, it will be a very sad loss for sportbred TBs. I have enjoyed watching his offspring in NY and have seen quite a few go onto successful homes in HJ & eventing. There is a younger SFS local to me that is doing a One Star (*) with his ammy and on course, looks like he is skipping around a Novice course. I liked his (SFS’s) type so much, we got a second SFS. I have two SFS geldings and I am working on obtaining a filly with a long-term goal to breed to a WB for an UL eventer.

One of my geldings has clear UL talent for eventing, but is held back by the monkey that rides him. He is green but I’m hoping to have him N-T by next year. He constantly wows people and they cannot believe he is a TB - I have had one UL dressage trainer ask if he was an Escudo son, he is that typey and a nice mover. The other raced soundly for 9 years, so has a little track baggage that might interfere with an UL career, but is athletic and a very nice mover. Both have absolutely incredible temperaments, but are very different.

I really do not want to see SFS’s line die out. IMHO he is very overlooked. He has the staying blood eventers need, and contributes type and movement without interfering with the gallop. His get would be an asset in a breeding program for eventing that was focused on bringing the blood back without losing the movement.

Every person I know that has an SFS horse has exclaimed that they are talented, sound as a dollar, and born broke. They have no agenda but to please you.

If money were no object and SFS aside, I’d want to take a nice WB mare to Giant’s Causeway or Stonesider - both stallions (father & son) produce incredible dressage-type movement consistently, regardless of the mare.

Ituango XX would be another, for obvious reasons.

[Simkie]

Oliver’s Twist in Colorado has produced some lovely event horses:

http://www.menokenfarms.com/olivers-twist/

I wonder what Indian Council looks like? VERY interesting pedigree:

http://www.menokenfarms.com/Pedigrees/Indian_Council_Pedigree.pdf

Lanciano stands in Alberta (or was as of a few years ago, at least):

http://www.pedigreequery.com/lanciano

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=Simkie;8855330]
Oliver’s Twist in Colorado has produced some lovely event horses:

http://www.menokenfarms.com/olivers-twist/

I wonder what Indian Council looks like? VERY interesting pedigree:

http://www.menokenfarms.com/Pedigrees/Indian_Council_Pedigree.pdf

Lanciano stands in Alberta (or was as of a few years ago, at least):

http://www.pedigreequery.com/lanciano[/QUOTE]

There is an Oliver’s Twist gelding over in DR forum brewing up a storm, Simkie - ‘Burgenland’. What’s better IME is his damline which has Ahonoora and some others quite close.

Looks to have lots of potential, if whoever owns him can figure out what the hitch in his get-along is.

[Simkie]

[QUOTE=beowulf;8855346]
There is an Oliver’s Twist gelding over in DR forum brewing up a storm, Simkie - ‘Burgenland’. What’s better IME is his damline which has Ahonoora and some others quite close.

Looks to have lots of potential, if whoever owns him can figure out what the hitch in his get-along is.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I’ve seen it. I posted some info on the thread in the eventing forum. I think it’s a shame that the horse is garnering such negative attention, but certainly understand why the discussion is going that way I’ve met him several times, met his owner, saw him at the track and at the farm. Neat horse for the right person. Upper level dressage prospect? No…

[Vivace1]

Musketier is lovely in person. Great temperament. I was able to hang out with him when he was at Keeneland for a couple mornings.

[Nootka]

[QUOTE=skydy;8854794]
I like this guy; https://www.darleyamerica.com/stallions/our-stallions/animal-kingdom[/QUOTE]

Ohhh I like.

Elles, that boy you posted is so droolworthy!

I know next to nothing about TB lines and websites but just snooping around I think this one is ok. I think his sire is a big NO NO on temperament though?
http://www.calumetfarm.com/stallions/lentenor

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=Nootka;8855505]
Ohhh I like.

Elles, that boy you posted is so droolworthy!

I know next to nothing about TB lines and websites but just snooping around I think this one is ok. I think his sire is a big NO NO on temperament though?
http://www.calumetfarm.com/stallions/lentenor[/QUOTE]
I like Dynaformer. I think his get have a bad rap because they’re not for everybody. Like Deputy Minister, Dixieland Band, and Storm Cat, they require a sensitive ride but they are very rewarding and very athletic.

Vertiformer is definitely droolworthy – this guy looks interesting too. I like his hindquarter formation. Fairly uphill neck for a racing stallion.

I really like Musketier, but he is not close enough for me.

[PeteyPie]

Richard’s Kid. He is full brother to Eagle Beagle.
http://susanmcarter.com/2009-steeplechase-champions/