I am a horrible person for not being shocked and appalled by this video?

[QUOTE=jetsmom;8233788]
You couldn’t be more wrong. People like nick zito, oppose it and he hardly wants to see animal ownership ended much less horse ownership. Most people that are against the
Aughter of horses are that way because of the whole process, from lying kill buyers pretending to promise a god home, to auction conditions, transport conditions, feedlot conditions, and the fast paced slaughter process that has a high miss rate. In addition, the forged paperwork, illegal meds used in horses that are slaughtered, lack of testing of horses for banned meds, and failure to track stolen horses also play in to it.
There is no one on this board against horse slaughter that wants animal ownership to end.[/QUOTE]

Yep…

I ride my horses, I eat meat and I’ve raised various farm animals. My family has raised pigs back in the Stone Age in a farrow to finish operation. Raised beef cattle, chickens, turkeys and so on.

So if I say certain farming methods bother me, I know whereof I speak. There certainly are ways in which we can improve the lives of the animals before we decide to slaughter them. Every step of the way should give some comfort, whatever that looks like depending on species, need and behaviours.

Not sure why that’s considered bat s$&t crazy. Why can’t we ensure that our dinner hasn’t suffered in order to get to our plate?

To say that every farming situation and farmer is wonderful is so ridiculously naive. Simply not true. There are all extremes like in any profession. And there are people stuck in certain ways of thinking and certain methods of farming that won’t change.

And I have a problem with any animal being shipped without access to food and water for over 24, no wait, 12 hours. I don’t care if it’s an elite jumper coming back from Europe, horses shipped overseas to be slaughtered or the double decker trailers filled with horses on their way to Quebec. Once the truck is sealed at the boarder, there’s no opening until they get to the plant.

That’s not ok. And that’s not being some anti horse riding extremist either. It’s about being kind to the animals we eat. Nothing more. Most of us complain about missing a meal. Try days.

If we are going to eat something, let it be slaughtered quickly and humanely.

That shouldn’t be so hard to understand.

[QUOTE=Sunwhinnies;8234543]
I ride my horses, I eat meat and I’ve raised various farm animals. My family has raised pigs back in the Stone Age in a farrow to finish operation. Raised beef cattle, chickens, turkeys and so on.

So if I say certain farming methods bother me, I know whereof I speak. There certainly are ways in which we can improve the lives of the animals before we decide to slaughter them. Every step of the way should give some comfort, whatever that looks like depending on species, need and behaviours.

Not sure why that’s considered bat s$&t crazy. Why can’t we ensure that our dinner hasn’t suffered in order to get to our plate?

To say that every farming situation and farmer is wonderful is so ridiculously naive. Simply not true. There are all extremes like in any profession. And there are people stuck in certain ways of thinking and certain methods of farming that won’t change.

And I have a problem with any animal being shipped without access to food and water for over 24, no wait, 12 hours. I don’t care if it’s an elite jumper coming back from Europe, horses shipped overseas to be slaughtered or the double decker trailers filled with horses on their way to Quebec. Once the truck is sealed at the boarder, there’s no opening until they get to the plant.

That’s not ok. And that’s not being some anti horse riding extremist either. It’s about being kind to the animals we eat. Nothing more. Most of us complain about missing a meal. Try days.

If we are going to eat something, let it be slaughtered quickly and humanely.

That shouldn’t be so hard to understand.[/QUOTE]

Thank you for the voice of reason.

If anybody dares say they view certain practices are inhumane or could be improved, certain posters hurl a string of crazy accusations: "You are a PETA fanatic/"You want to end animal ownership/you are against all breeding/you want everyone to be a vegetarian/you think only rich people should own animals " and anything else they invent. I don’t know if these people are in denial, just angry and want to fight on a bulletin board or what their problem is but I have gotten lots of private emails from people who wont’ participate in the threads any longer due to the nature of some of the posts.

[QUOTE=Countrywood;8234562]
Thank you for the voice of reason.

If anybody dares say they view certain practices are inhumane or could be improved, certain posters hurl a string of crazy accusations: "You are a PETA fanatic/"You want to end animal ownership/you are against all breeding/you want everyone to be a vegetarian/you think only rich people should own animals " and anything else they invent. I don’t know if these people are in denial, just angry and want to fight on a bulletin board or what their problem is but I have gotten lots of private emails from people who wont’ participate in the threads any longer due to the nature of some of the posts.[/QUOTE]

Right out of animal rights extremist propaganda, confuse abuse with standard, well documented and researched practices in the minds of those that don’t know any better.
Point to someone abusing a horse and then say we should not ride horses because you see, that is abusive.
Everyone has seen trainers that train in a way we don’t like or even disagree strongly, but don’t go on then saying all trainers are not training right, which is the equivalent of how many are talking about what they insultingly call “factory farming”, as if that was any kind of definition suitable for bashing others, the equivalent of saying “factory horsemanship” when referring to a riding school, not a couple of horses in a backyard.
Makes as much sense, not very rational.

Just remember, if you don’t like a standard management practice, or how someone cares for their animals, here horses, ask first.
Don’t jump in with wholesale accusations and insults, that marks those that do so as either not having the foggiest idea what they are talking about, or being part of the animal rights extremist propaganda, if willing and knowingly or not.

Yes, people, from ALL sides, complain in PMs and posts that they don’t want to post because they are called on what they post, all of us get those, but then the louder ones still come back to keep posting and complaining.:wink:

[QUOTE=Sunwhinnies;8234543]
I ride my horses, I eat meat and I’ve raised various farm animals. My family has raised pigs back in the Stone Age in a farrow to finish operation. Raised beef cattle, chickens, turkeys and so on.

So if I say certain farming methods bother me, I know whereof I speak. There certainly are ways in which we can improve the lives of the animals before we decide to slaughter them. Every step of the way should give some comfort, whatever that looks like depending on species, need and behaviours.

Not sure why that’s considered bat s$&t crazy. Why can’t we ensure that our dinner hasn’t suffered in order to get to our plate?

To say that every farming situation and farmer is wonderful is so ridiculously naive. Simply not true. There are all extremes like in any profession. And there are people stuck in certain ways of thinking and certain methods of farming that won’t change.

And I have a problem with any animal being shipped without access to food and water for over 24, no wait, 12 hours. I don’t care if it’s an elite jumper coming back from Europe, horses shipped overseas to be slaughtered or the double decker trailers filled with horses on their way to Quebec. Once the truck is sealed at the boarder, there’s no opening until they get to the plant.

That’s not ok. And that’s not being some anti horse riding extremist either. It’s about being kind to the animals we eat. Nothing more. Most of us complain about missing a meal. Try days.

If we are going to eat something, let it be slaughtered quickly and humanely.

That shouldn’t be so hard to understand.[/QUOTE]

You may be missing the most important point here, that it is crazy to bring this and that example of something we don’t like and then bash everyone that is even remotely connected with it as doing it all wrong, according to what you think.

If you really know about animal husbandry, you should be aware that there are many, many ways to do things, many, many ways different situations demand different management and that the practices keep changing as better ones come to light and are implementing.

One study was showing that, from all industries out there, agriculture was the one that changed, used new technology and so improved the fastest of any, the most progressive by all measures.
That includes how we manage animals also.
We can see that reflected in how we manage horses also.

What some are doing when they bash farmers with their “factory farming” as accusations is the equivalent of freaking out when driving down the road and seeing horses in pens that are wearing fly masks and believing they are being abused by being kept blind so they don’t jump fences to get out from their prisons (true story).

It is crazy indeed to think we know something we, if we give it enough tough and look around us, should realize we only know a smidgen of what all is out there, definitely not to have any kind of sensible, knowledgeable opinion to blame all and everyone based on that.

As we say, using the abuse card by taking any and all possible to misrepresent or outright present out of context to try to eliminate all we do with animals, right down the alley for animal rights extremists.

No Bluey, YOU are one of those who twist the posts of those speaking out against inhumane treatment (by some) to mean that They think EVERYBODY is evil who who owns, trains or breeds.

[B]Point to someone abusing a horse and then say we should not ride horses because you see, that is abusive

NONE of us have said anything like what you just did , that point to someone abusing a horse and then saying we should not ride horses. NONE of us said anything along those lines so stop pretending we did. And for the record we don’t agree with the extremists who say that either so stop lumping us in with them.

What some are doing when they bash farmers with their “factory farming” as accusations is the equivalent of freaking out when driving down the road and seeing horses in pens that are wearing fly masks and believing they are being abused by being kept blind so they don’t jump fences to get out from their prisons (true story).

More illogic and a crazy assumption by you. Though a few misguided people might wrongly accuse good owners of bad treatment such as above example, that is NOT the same as recognizing the documented and observed bad treatment of animals that does exist.

I can’t stop you or others from making illogical connections between things or bringing up fringe case examples of thing that dont’ apply to another thing but it is exhausting to respond to them post after post.

[QUOTE=Countrywood;8234593]
What some are doing when they bash farmers with their “factory farming” as accusations is the equivalent of freaking out when driving down the road and seeing horses in pens that are wearing fly masks and believing they are being abused by being kept blind so they don’t jump fences to get out from their prisons (true story).

More illogic and a crazy assumption by you. Though a few misguided people might wrongly accuse good owners of bad treatment, that is NOT the same as recognizing the documented and observed bad treatment of animals that does exist.[/QUOTE]

Ever give a thought what abuse is?

Didn’t think so.

As I say, animal rights extremists use the abuse card because it works.
People in general are not very good at logic and they know that and work on emotions, that tend to carry the day where logic fails.

Are all teachers suspect of abuses because there are documented and prosecuted and convicted teachers?
All churches, police departments, doctors, you name it?

I expect in some eyes, yes, some may just look at any one person as part of their group with suspicion after hearing that someone in that group was an abuser.

Why do you think an abuse video in a dairy are released by animal rights groups right before important voting drives to hamper or ban dairies?
People are very good at generalizing, tend to miss the trees for the forest, logic fails them there.

Those in agriculture have double trouble with this, because we, that is ALL of us, those that have any animals to care for, even pets, unlike teachers and policemen and doctors, etc., we have very strong, powerful, rich beyond measure non-profit groups that make their living out of persecuting any and all that have animals.

Up to now, those groups had the money and resources to swamp whole societies with their message, “owning animals is wrong!”, in their opinion, out of reality in our world.

In the age of the internet, the information age, they have realized that now the general public has access to who they really are, that others can play their game and expose them for the extremists they are, no more cute kitten looking sad out of a cage in mailings will convince everyone to send them money.

Well, that is one reason they have been changing their tactics, laying low, their presence muted and their attacks on animal ownership now more subtle, thru lobbying, putting their people in regulatory positions, attacking first animal agriculture, tying in with other such non-profit extremist groups, “agriculture is bad for the planet!”, again, in their opinion, heck in their opinion, that this blue marble has humans is a mistake, off with everyone’s head, leave the earth to the cute critters!

My point, remember to at least listen carefully to all sides before deciding who to follow, because things as presented are not always as they seem.

Bluey, Perhaps there is a less insulting phrase for us to use other than “factory farming”? Since I do not participate in raising animals for food, I do not know proper terms, or what these type farms are referred to.

Some do outstanding work in maintaining animal care while raising them for slaughter. Some are questionable at best, as it is with anything. Regardless, I think its a very needed industry and has undoubtedly come a long way in standards of care.

Im for animal slaughter, as long as its legal, and not someones stolen horse or something similar :no: But an unwanted horse sold to slaughter, no problem. There are worse things…

Wonderful posts from Sunwhinnies and Countrywood.

Thank you so much. :yes:

[QUOTE=ThatGirlTina;8234612]
Bluey, Perhaps there is a less insulting phrase for us to use other than “factory farming”? Since I do not participate in raising animals for food, I do not know proper terms, or what these type farms are referred to.

Some do outstanding work in maintaining animal care while raising them for slaughter. Some are questionable at best, as it is with anything. Regardless, I think its a very needed industry and has undoubtedly come a long way in standards of care.

Im for animal slaughter, as long as its legal, and not someones stolen horse or something similar :no: But an unwanted horse sold to slaughter, no problem. There are worse things…[/QUOTE]

Thank you for at least contemplating that not everyone that raises animals is out to abuse them or thinks that is ok.

[QUOTE=ThatGirlTina;8234612]
Bluey, Perhaps there is a less insulting phrase for us to use other than “factory farming”? Since I do not participate in raising animals for food, I do not know proper terms, or what these type farms are referred to.

Some do outstanding work in maintaining animal care while raising them for slaughter. Some are questionable at best, as it is with anything. Regardless, I think its a very needed industry and has undoubtedly come a long way in standards of care.

Im for animal slaughter, as long as its legal, and not someones stolen horse or something similar :no: But an unwanted horse sold to slaughter, no problem. There are worse things…[/QUOTE]

Factory farming is intended to insult and inflame.

A representative for a farmers organization said something to this effect over 30 years ago: who never owned more than 10 cows in his life thinks factory farming begins with 11…
My dad thought that was not proper for him to say, but hey, fast forward 30 years, and the man wasn’t all that wrong.

The term is used by people who want to invoke the imagery of billowing smokestacks, and Charlie Chaplin in ‘Modern Times’

The fact is that the majority of the nations population lives in urban environment, and even if they have acre lots, very few grow a garden or keep animals other than dogs to supplement their food needs.
Cities like New York…there is no way they can supply enough food from only the small ‘family farms’ surrounding the metropolitan area. Not to mention farming is likely cost prohibitive there.

We are so affluent, we have forgotten what it is to live close to the source of our food: Most of our produce is grown in arid climates. In the desert!
People - rich people - in drought zones believe because they are rich, water restrictions should not apply to them!

I find it ironic that certain vegan lifestyle nazis proclaim that growing meat is using up tons of water, when their rabbit food is grown to the detriment of the aquifer.
http://water.usgs.gov/edu/gwdepletion.html

Most farms are still owned by families, but like many other businesses - yes, business, dirty word here - they incorporated, because it’s the smart thing to do.

Of course, the general education level has gone down…and slogans like ‘pure vegetarian diet’ for chickens seem a-ok, until you realize (most won’t) that birds are omnivores and eat bugs…even Hummingbirds do!)

Intensive agriculture or Intensive farming I believe is official phrase used in the industry. It was nicknamed factory farming because it treats animals like units of production in a factory. Feed them as much as possible so they grow abnormally large in as short a time as possible, kept in small pens or cages to maximize space, antibiotics in feed to counter the spread of virus endemic to keeping animals in not natural close quarter conditions…

Some farms organized this way may be better than others but they are organized along these lines. Advocacy for humane treatment as been seeing a return in at least a small segment of farming to free range chickens, cattle /cows kept in pasture to graze as opposed to small enclosures . The confinement /treatment of pigs in many intensive farming operations is particularity sad as from what I read they are intelligent, sensitive animals

[QUOTE=Alagirl;8234631]
Factory farming is intended to insult and inflame.[/QUOTE]

What is a proper term for a farm used to raise animals for slaugher?

Or is “farm used to raise animals for slaughter” simply what they are referred to?

[QUOTE=ThatGirlTina;8234636]
What is a proper term for a farm used to raise animals for slaugher?

Or is “farm used to raise animals for slaughter” simply what they are referred to?[/QUOTE]

Farm.

No, o, despite a rep for farmer industry saying it, factory farming does not start at 11 cows vs 10. It stands for a specific treatment of animals during their lifetime. Typically more seen in larger scale operations but if you have 10 cows locked into tiny pens and fed large amounts of food to make them grow unnaturally fast and antibiotics in feed and separate cows them from their calves at birth for max milk production it meets the definition. More often seen in volume farms.

Look up intensive agriculture or intensive farming since you dislike the term factory farming. See what it means and what differentiates it from more humane methods of keeping animals destined for food of milk production. Are you as unaware as you seem about what things outside your viewpoint or do you just like to argue on the board it’s hard to tell.

How about commercial agriculture? That leaves out hobby farms and the like.

I’m not bothered by the video.

[QUOTE=ThatGirlTina;8234636]
What is a proper term for a farm used to raise animals for slaugher?

Or is “farm used to raise animals for slaughter” simply what they are referred to?[/QUOTE]

Beef farm.
Hog farm.
Poultry farm.

Ah, commerical agriculture sounds like it hits the spot!

As does [insert type of animal] farm to specify!

Just plain “farm” I dont feel accurately describes the type of farm im referring to.

Thanks guys, I probably couldve googled it, but I enjoy learning this way better.

The word farm brings to mind the traditional farms we like to think about, animals in a pasture or a pen at least large enough room to move around, experience sunlight etc. If they are slaughtered they led a decent life up to that time.

"Farms "does not bring to mind the methods of intensive agriculture to most people who are aware of the difference.

It’s not the slaughter that is the issue it’s how the animal is kept during its lifetime that is the issue.