okay I asked Bluey a simple question and she refused to answer.
If you ask me a question I answer it, I dont’ write a long post accusing you of whatever I feel like.
[QUOTE=Countrywood;8235803]
okay I asked Bluey a simple question and she refused to answer.
If you ask me a question I answer it, I dont’ write a long post accusing you of whatever I feel like.[/QUOTE]
Yep. Obvious evasion.
Not exactly surprising, but still.
[QUOTE=Countrywood;8235803]
okay I asked Bluey a simple question and she refused to answer.
If you ask me a question I answer it, I dont’ write a long post accusing you of whatever I feel like.[/QUOTE]
Hard to get where someone is coming from at times.
I answered your question, just not in the way you wanted.
A direct, clear answer, since my answer was not simple enough is, what kind of question is that?
To ask about how to manage animals in confinement is so broad as to be way out of the ballpark, like asking which kind of white do I think snow should be.
There are all kinds of ways we manage animals in confinement, just think how we keep horses.
Your question is the equivalent of some animal rights extremist asking if I think we should keep all horses in the wild, not behind fences, because you don’t like horses behind fences, an absolute you are up front saying you won’t take but a no for an answer.
That is why my answer, trying to be nice about pointing to, what kind of question is that?
Or put another way, “no need to repeat yourself, I ignored you fine the first time, that question being what it is.”
I asked specifically if you are for against intensive farming which if you look it up has specific ways of confinement and treatment. You are like a politician, i can’t answer I didn’t’ inhale yada yada.
Ask me a question requiring a yes or no answer ( unless x rated lol) and I will respond, yes or no, I wont keep circling round the issue.
Intensive farming of which animals? In what part of the country? Inside or outside? If inside, then naturally ventilated or not? What age animals? Breeding animals?
You did not ask a yes or no question.
[QUOTE=Countrywood;8235903]
Ask me a question requiring a yes or no answer ( unless x rated lol) and I will respond, yes or no, I wont keep circling round the issue.[/QUOTE]
Aw man. What fun is that?
And back to the topic of the OP. It must be cost efficient otherwise it wouldn’t happen.
Putting them on boats. They would still have to be crated and it would be for a much longer timeframe.
[QUOTE=roseymare;8235908]
Intensive farming of which animals? In what part of the country? Inside or outside? If inside, then naturally ventilated or not? What age animals? Breeding animals?
You did not ask a yes or no question.[/QUOTE]
Okay.
Lets hear her views on hens in battery cages and sows in gestation crates. Those are certainly well known, often discussed practices.
[QUOTE=Countrywood;8235803]
okay I asked Bluey a simple question and she refused to answer.
If you ask me a question I answer it, I dont’ write a long post accusing you of whatever I feel like.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Red Barn;8235815]Yep. Obvious evasion.
Not exactly surprising, but still.[/QUOTE]
Ah, the more things change, the more they stay the same…
You don’t get the answers you want, so you get huffy.
BTW, the naswer non of y’all ever answers either:
How much is PETA paying you to disseminate their message?
And what version of chicken cages and hog gestation crates to you want?
Let me guess: Not the version of the working farmers, right!
:lol:
And what version of chicken cages and hog gestation crates to you want?
Let me guess: Not the version of the working farmers, right!
If you and/or she are “working farmers” (LOL) and you approve of these practices, then yes, I want to hear about it.
Why not?
I have no experience with chickens.
I have no issue with gestation crates or farrowing crates. Sows who don’t acclimate to them should be removed from them. And yes I have had pigs as pets. I also have been in many a hog house. If gestation pens work for producers that is fine too. If they turn out to work better then great.
Remove the sows who don’t do well in them just like you do horses who do not acclimate to stalls.
[QUOTE=Red Barn;8236018]
If you and/or she are “working farmers” (LOL) and you approve of these practices, then yes, I want to hear about it.
Why not?[/QUOTE]
If you are honest about your approach, you are a step ahead of most of the other folks who question the common practices, usually from a preconceived mindset.
Chickens:
I have no personal experience with them, but family in agriculture in various capacities (like on government and EU level)
chicken cage size were the product of trial and error and the need to have as many laying hens in a small area.
Too large a cage and the hens peck each other, even to death, to small a cage
and they don’t lay.
The cage method was indeed a step up from from the ‘farm raised’ ‘free ranged’ chicken, often contaminated with salmonella.
And yes, food is expected to be as cheap as possible, so everybody gets to eat some, and wages can be kept low. Many a war has been fought over that.
Remove the sows who don’t do well in them just like you do horses who do not acclimate to stalls.
Horses kept in stalls are allowed out of stalls to be ridden, excersizd or graze.
If a horse were kept locked 14/7 its entire life in a straight stall with no window and never allowed out, would you call that cruel confinement? Think it might cause the horse to suffer? That is the equivalent of how these animals are kept. The people in charge dont’ care if the animals “acclimate” or not. How can any feeling, thinking animal “acclimate” to being caged or crated 24/7 in cramped conditions with no respite. They endure the confinement until they are slaughtered .
double post edited
I think as a society, we are quick to title things and then spend decades arguing the title…
[QUOTE=Countrywood;8236186]
Remove the sows who don’t do well in them just like you do horses who do not acclimate to stalls.
Horses kept in stalls are allowed out of stalls to be ridden, excersizd or graze.
If a horse were kept locked 14/7 its entire life in a straight stall with no window and never allowed out, would you call that cruel confinement? Think it might cause the horse to suffer? That is the equivalent of how these animals are kept. The people in charge dont’ care if the animals “acclimate” or not. How can any feeling, thinking animal “acclimate” to being caged or crated 24/7 in cramped conditions with no respite. They endure the confinement until they are slaughtered .[/QUOTE]
Awesome.
Is PETA paying you for writing their pamphlets?
Countrywood. Please visit a hog house. Sows are moved on a regular basis. The houses are bright and clean. They eat and drink and grunt and although I am sure you won’t believe me, they are even touched by humans.
In pens outside they do get to move around more but they are bothered by flies, have to be in hot weather as well as cold weather, have to fight for their food and often will fight each other just because. As I said before it is all a tradeoff. I don’t have an issue with pasture raised pork either. One is not better only different. Studies have shown that the sows are not stressed. If gestation pens work for some producers great. Maybe they will be better. You act as if agriculture is some static industry. Animal health has always been leading the industry. Many changes have taken place.
Why is it that we embrace science and change in the rest of out life but want to farm like the 1920’s?
Yes, you must farm like the 1920’s but you are not allowed to charge more for it, because how dare you farmers make a profit or a living on those animals. [/sarcasm]
So, though I don’t like gestational cages, there are guidelines now for the size of them. Canada has a pretty comprehensive list available regarding size etc. There are also time frames that the sows can be kept in them, they don’t live their whole lives in them.
From the working farmer’s perspective, there is a high mortality in piglets from the mother crushing them during the first X (I cant’ remember) weeks of life. A lactating sow literally flops over. Apparently the piglets get squished, which is probably why biologically sows have up to 14 piglets, some are predisposed to get crushed. PETA wouldn’t like crushed piglets, no one really likes the cages, you really can’t group house sows, they fight worse than a bunch of alpha mares or COTHers.
I already said I don’t like them, I don’t necessarily agree with them, and 9 US states have made them illegal. However, there was more thought put into them/reasons for them than just how many pigs can fit into a building.
Horses and pigs are way different physiologically.
Also the pigs raised in confinent have been selected for the traits that are important to be raised this way. As gestational crates are phased out sows will have to be selected for non aggressive group tendencies.
One reason crates are used is to stop having to introduce new animals to a herd. A sow that doesn’t take on her first breeding can be put back in her stall not in a new group of unbred gilts or a new group of sows. Once bred crates allow the sows feed to be formulated especially for her. New technology allows for this now in group housed animals.
Also pigs take like champs to the sedentary lifestyle.
