Perhaps you cannot understand it but I certainly can. I have had my mare for 6 years. She is 15 years old. In that time I have not been able to put together 6 months of riding soundness. She has had one issue after another until finally, last Friday, the vet gave me the bad news that she had a lesion on her ddft. Shockwave therapy might help along with another long rehab but with her other issues he was not very encouraging about future soundness. I have fought this fight to keep her sound for 5 years. I am worn out. I dread going to the barn to see how lame she is today and I just cannot do it anymore. I also cannot afford to keep her at a barn that charges $500 amonth (and I buy her extra hay) for the next 15 years. (Her sire passed away at the young age of 32.) I am hearsick about this but with an out-of-work husband and a 75% reduction in income I have to make hard decisions. I am fortunate. I have a friend who loves this mare and who has a retirment farm about 50 miles from me. Board is half of what I pay. She will be well cared for and loved on. I can visit when I want. Since I can’t have the horse I want, which is the horse that I have only sound, I can at least give her a place to live that I can afford and not break the family bank. If I had my own place she would stay. But I don’t. I am not abandoning her, I am not giving her away. I am trying to provide her with a loving home that I can afford and that will allow me to one day own another horse. I have given this horse far better than most who owned her before me and I am giving her a retirement she deserves. I have stopped crying since my friend said, “Send her to me.” This is a good solution for us and I would never judge anyone who chose a retirement farm for their horse.
So not having read the entire thread…
Bought a 10 year old mare and spent 3 years trying to get her going. Turned out she had an intractable stifle issue.
I live in an urban area, work full time, and really want to be able to afford a riding horse…ain’t anywhere around here that has pasture board, selling her would be unethical, and she was WAAAYYY too healthy to put down.
She’s now in Virginia out on 20 acres with about 10- 15 or so other mares. It’s field board - they have run in sheds and round bale hay. Shots for whatever-it-is that you have to worry about with round barle hay. Gets her teeth done once a year, shots twice a year, worming on a regular schedule, and feet done every 6 weeks. Horses are checked on once a day.
Do I love it? Not particularly. Do I think it’s a reasonable solution to the issue? Yep!
The clarified question was about understanding how people could accept the lack of day-to-day involvement with their retired horses.
As someone with a semi-retired one-- he’s currently trail-riding sound, not show-ring sound–this was the problem I faced. I have no desire to turn my horse’s care over to someone else. But I couldn’t find a place close enough to me that also had the best turn out and trail options for him.
I put his day-to-day quality of life first. That meant I needed to change both his expectations and mine about how involved I would be with him each day. But I chose my barn carefully. That’s the best I can do, and he digs the solution more than I do.
In an ideal world (or merely the distant future), he’ll live in my own back yard and we’ll have the best of both worlds.
For anyone coming late to the game, please read this:
http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4393187&postcount=100
The point was mostly about dumped horses…people who just find no value in the retirees.
I don’t follow the “horse for life” philosophy. I have my children for life. Wife, too. But horse? No, I’m not married to my horse (literally or figuratively).
I got one aging mare that’s no longer in the breeding string. She’ll live and get the care she needs until she’s in constant pain from things I can’t reasonably treat. Then I have her put down.
One of the recurring themes over the past year is “retirement farms” that end up being shut down for neglect and abuse of “retirees.” In more than 20 years of horsekeeping (including running a boarding facility for more than 12) I’ve learned a lot about the economics of horsekeeping. IMO way too many “retirement farms” are not charging nearly enough to pay for the costs of what they do. That’s not a strategy for long term survival for either the facility or the “retirees” boarded there. “Profit” is not a “dirty word.” In way too many cases the failed “retirement farms” seem to have charged too little or maybe had too many “deadbeat owners.” In any event they ended up in the news, and not in a good way.
When a horse reaches the end of its useful life the owner has the duty to make an appropriate arragement. That can mean anything from sale to a slaughter facility to full care board someplace. Neither has any moral or ethical superiority to the other. What is morally and ethically reprehensible is putting the horse “out to pasture on the cheap.” Or not paying the monthy fee.
G.
[QUOTE=BuddyRoo;4389067]
ETA: I clarified on page two…but what I mean by “I don’t understand” is that I don’t understand how people can send their horse far away and not see it. I get the concept of retirement farms, and would like to own one some day–what I am not understanding so much is how people work it out in their minds and hearts to have their oldies far away and not see them.[/QUOTE]
In my case, I haven’t seen my old mare for a few years now. We donated her to a therapy riding barn who in turn gave her to a little girl after her navicular got to where even the young kids couldn’t ride her anymore. I’ve tried to keep an eye on her, and Hubby has already agreed that if she should need a home we will provide one. She deserves it. However, we don’t have the money to board her at one of the local H/J barns. Nor do we have the time to self care if I managed to find someone willing to let her use a pasture. A retirement farm is our solution, since it is both affordable and we would know she is getting good care. Even knowing that she would be too far away for me to get to see her on a regular basis, knowing she is happy is enough for me.
Guilherm
I’m not a bleeding-heart ethicist. Nor am I unclear about the definitions of these categories: Pet, livestock, child, marriage partner.
But the fact that horses are dependent upon us does, in my opinion, create the obligation to care for them as we would any other living thing so vulnerable to our whims.
Death is not the worse thing that can happen to a horse, especially since they don’t seem to have the same ability to contemplate and/or fear it as humans do.
To me, then, the ethical obligation is to provide good quality of life and good quality of death. Sale for slaughter wouldn’t be such a problem if the experience of getting from auction pen to dead weren’t so bad.
And yes, since I have ventured way into the murk of ethics, it is certainly piss-poor form to find the retirement place with price eclipsing questions of care. If you wanted to get all ethical in a socialist or economic way, one could even say it’s uncool to participate in a market that deprives the retirement farm owner of a reasonable profit.
Yeah, way off the deep end, I know.
We have a few retirees and semi-retirees. We don’t have an indoor ring, just an outdoor ring and trails. No trainer on staff. No washer/dryer in the barn. Most horses live out with run-in sheds or only come in for a few hours, although all are separated 1-3 times a day for grain, depending on need. No boarders training to show, just pleasure ride. We only board six because…
we are not making our living at this.
Basically we are not commercial, we are private and offer a level of care that is probably superior to a lot of the pricier barns that cater more to the rider than the horse (this is what my boarders tell me). However, we are not a “dump” for unwanted horses…and all my boarders live local and come out at least twice a week.
BuddyRoo thanks for an interesting post. I think it shows how vastly different we all view horse ownership. At our barn most of the owners believe in horse for life. In fact we just lost a 35 year old last night, cared for with love to then end with his human mom by his side. (yes even though he was blind he knew her from the rest of us)
One of our boarders was recently thinking of sending her horse away to a retirement place, where she might never have seen him again, but she never got around to it and a few months ago he too died a quiet death with his owner nearby.
I don’t think there is any right answer. Everyone’s situation is different. However if you take on an older horse whose abilities are diminished by age, lameness etc. you should expect that you will have to make arrangements for that horse for the rest of his/her life.
I think its all about doing the right thing as you see it. I would not want to send my horse away and never see it again simply because it was no longer “useful” to me. However if it was in the horse’s best interest for whatever reason or the only viable solution financially then yes I would.
There are good farms and bad, retirement or not.
There are good horse owners and bad horse owners. Its a shame for the horses owned by the bad owners.
[QUOTE=mvp;4546008]
If you wanted to get all ethical in a socialist or economic way, one could even say it’s uncool to participate in a market that deprives the retirement farm owner of a reasonable profit.
Yeah, way off the deep end, I know.[/QUOTE
well we are about to join the ranks of “retirement” farm and I’m not sure how it happened;) we had an elderly client die in the fall and she had 6 horses…for some reason the estate wants us to have them for the “remainder of their natural lives” or some such…
we are still working out the final wording of the deal…but she was a great client for years and I can’t help but think that the Old Missus wanted us to have them, as among her 7 kids,12 grandkids and 4 g grandkids nobody wanted the things? hummm seems odd…but they are here none the less aged from 25 to 17…
it is an odd thing to be taking on esp considering the ramifications for us as a farm and the wording of the agreement in in specific…I dunno if I wanna “boldly go”
best
Mitchell Farm in CT
Tamara,
You check these dudes’ website and give them a call as you work out your deal.
They accept horses with a single lump-sum donation for permanent retirement. (Before the rest of you freak all the way out, know that they have a sterling reputation up here. The “donate him and have no more say” technique is not my cup of tea, but Mitchell Farm is very well-regarded).
Anywho, they have probably crunched some numbers in order to come up with the dollar figure and the minimum age of the horses they’ll accept. They also explain their policies regarding ordinary versus extraordinary vet care.
You might find it easiest to ask the estate for one of these lump-sum payments, spell out the terms under which you will keep the horses and require that their ownership be transferred to you. I’d include “visitation rights” for the family of course!
I hope you can work something out that lets you do the right thing for your old friend and her horses… without losing your shirt. If she were a good horsewoman, she wouldn’t want to put her horses in a precarious position by having them cost even good friends too much money.
The latest posts have really gotten me thinking. As others have mentioned, there are good and bad retirement farms.
I decided to do exclusively retirees because I really don’t have the facilities most riders who compete and work full time need-a lighted indoor, lots of storage space, trailer parking, etc. I have a small (6 stall) private farm and it’s just me doing the work.
I give full care-stall with attached paddock, private or semi-private(1 other horse) pastures, feed 3X daily, blanketing, holding for vet, farrier,etc. and lots of turnout. It is a nice setup for a retired horse. At $425/month, it is not cheap. I don’t expect my situation to work for everyone. Even at $425 monthly, my “profit” works out to minimum wage. I don’t expect board to pay for any farm maintenance or improvements-that’s just not realistic in my situation. I have to charge this amount to make it worthwhile for me to do boarding-no one should be expected to work for free, no matter how much one loves horses. That’s when you see burnout and substandard care set in.
My farm works great for the boarders who want this level of care and who know and trust me. To me, it doesn’t matter if you come by often or just occasionally. As long as it is agreed up front what the expectations are for absentee owners-grooming, minor vet care, etc-it can work out.
Because I live in the Northeast, my costs are higher- shorter grass growing season, price of land at a premium, highest taxes, and high cost of hay. I’m sure you can get the same level of care at lower prices in areas of the country where the basic costs are lower. I think the issue becomes where you can get the best care for your horse at a price you can afford. If that means you don’t see your horse as often as you’d like but you know the care is excellent, you are doing what is best for your horse. That should always be the bottom line.
Well, I actually have Mr. RRB retired, and I keep him there (Ohio) because he is a happy fellow!
I had to retire him at the age of 7/8; he was a QH Halter horse, and his joints, as I found out, were shot. My niece was begging me for a horse, so I sent him to her. While that didn’t quite work out (don’t ask why) there was a facility close by. Not the most glam, but the care is exceptional and I knew the owner. I had him picked up and taken there.
I have not been to see him in about 2 years, maybe 3. I seriously considered bringing him home about 18 months ago. But I chose not to … he has friends where he is … an arab he adores,… and a mini he adores as well. The price is reasonable … right around $250 per month … and the barn manager and I talk frequently—plus, it’s extra income for the BO.
Why would I take him away from this nice, safe home, where he has friends, a caring family (BM has kids) and an excellent routine and care? He gets a supplement for his joints, he “lopes” :lol: around with his friends, the grass is excellent, and … the worst he’s ever asked for is to hold still for a bath!!
He has a great corner stall on the edge of the indoor, where he watches EVERYTHING going on (when the weather is bad.) You know what? I couldn’t do as good a job as she does … I have to go to work.
To me,… for this boy, and these circumstances,…well, it’s a no-brainer.
Now, I have a girl, about the same age, that was recently diagnosed with a fractured pelvis; she will stay with me for the rest of her life, as I’ve had her since she was a baby. Different situation, completely. And no, I would never send her away to anyone.
Anyway… just some thoughts. I have the same feelings as you do…as adamant, I should say, as what I quoted above…about being present when when any “pet” is put down. I guess maybe we all have our peccadilloes…
I think it also depends on what type of horse you have. I know when my mare can no longer perform to the level I want to, she will probably be leased to a little girl and if she decides to not settle down in her old age and is not suitable for a young rider, she’ll go retire somewhere warm.
I think people commonly forget that horse are herd animals. I understand there is the exception to that in horses that do “need” humans. But most horses can be turned out in a field with a bunch of other horses and be perfectly happy the rest of their lives. The herd instinct almost always takes over. I think people humanize horses too much which is understandable. I do it to, my horse is part of the family. But sometimes it is important to remember the instincts and habits and behavior that they were born with and let them just be a horse.
I run a small retirement facility at my home farm. I have two older fellows now, one a retired eventer and the the other a retired GP horse. Both their owners are away and not in a position to continue paying upwards of $500 a month to board them at show barns where they would be in large herds or small stalls. By boarding with me, they have 24/7 turnout in a SMALL herd, and I care for them just like I do my own. Blankets on/off, farrier, vet, wound care, etc. They get groomed as needed and I watch for things like dropping feed or getting stiff or sore. I believe they are happier and i know their owners are happier with this situation than if they were still at busy show barns. So aside from the lesser boarding expense these owners know someone is looking at their horses twice a day or more and by knowing the horses I am able to watch for little issues that a big BO or BM might miss simply because they have so many. I think it is a wonderful thing for owners to try to find a comfortable situation to reward these older guys when age gets the best of them. I like the comparison to retiring to Florida and living in a neighborhood with others your own age. :winkgrin:
While I would never send one of my horses off to where I couldn’t check on them daily I DO understand retirement farms. I do NOT understand people “donating” their oldies or unsound horses to a rescue. That doesn’t make a lick of sense to me. Now to me THAT’S dumping a horse and why in the world would a rescue take such a horse?? A rescue should only have horses that actually needed to be rescued not horses that somebody no longer had a use for and wanted to unload them. Why is it called “donating” anyhow? That sounds as if you are giving something that is needed and I don’t think rescues NEED everyone’s old no longer wanted horses. If someone could no longer feed the oldster I can see it but it seems that many (if not most) want to “donate” their old guy so they can afford to have a new younger horse.
Burns the corn outta me!
:rolleyes::mad:
It would kill me to ever have any of the crew somewhere but home, but if…and only if…it were a situation where our cold climate or something of that nature was bad for my otherwise healthy happy horse I would seriously consider a move to somewhere like Sunkissed Acres for retirement. I would pay handsomely because I know any profit would help Lori do what she does best and my crew all came from there anyway! :lol: They would be fed, loved and cared for in a place they know and that would be good for them.
[QUOTE=BuddyRoo;4389477]
I wasn’t very clear in my OP…
First of all, I do not mean this in any way as an attack on anyone who utilizes retirement farms…I just got to thinking about it. I’ve thought about having one some day when I win the lottery…I’d like to foster kids and have a horsey retirement facility because I think the two together could be beneficial for both. So I’m not against the concept per se…I love the oldies.
What I guess I don’t understand is how people can let their oldies go so far away that they’re not seeing them regularly and such. I’ve seen the “bad” stories here…and the good too. I know it can go either way. But from a “horse person” standpoint, I’m not sure that I personally could ever retire my horse to a place that was say…several hours or states away.
That is the part that has me scratching my head a bit.
Please keep in mind though–I’ve never lived in a super heavily populated area or big city where board is a gazillion dollars a month. Pretty much everywhere I’ve lived, there were options for less expensive boarding. It did take me awhile to find a facility when I first moved here that would accommodate some of my old man’s needs–like being fed 3-4 times a day, no hay, no grass, etc…but it was still doable. I realize it’s not that way everywhere.
So anyway…just asking questions…thanks for the links and the stories![/QUOTE]
Some of us choose to put our horses in the best situations for THEM, not the most convenient locations for US.
My older (20s) horse lives roughly 1000 miles from me. He has some health issues that mean winters up here would be rough on him. I made the (difficult) decision to let him live in GA, where the winters aren’t so long/cold. I hate not getting to see him - I love him dearly and have had him since he retired off the track as a very young horse. However, because I love him, I prefer for him to live where he is most comfortable and I am fortunate that he lives with a very good professional with a lot of experience managing older horses.
And just to put a little perspective on this … if my boy lives another 10 years … which would make him just 25,… that would mean a total investment of some $45,000, which isn’t exactly chump change, for him to just lollygag around the pasture.
As long as he is happy and has a minimum quality of life, I’m delighted to pay.
How articulate you are, Lucassb! Well said!
FWIW, my retiree is boarded at a regular boarding stable that has pasture board. It is about a 90 minute drive from where I board my present riding horse, but the board is half of what I pay to board my riding horse. I see my retiree every other week. SInce it is also a boarding stable, a lot of people see and monitor the pasture boarded horses - active ones and retirees. The BO has been extremely conscientious about my horse’s care and pro-active in dealing with his issues. Since it is not exlcusively a retirement place, I feel there is little danger of his being “neglected” as in the horrendous stories of closed-down retirement farms.
