I found the video from this year's NAJYRC Head of the Lake to be educational

[Jealoushe]

@CatchMeIfUCan;7729881

They also have a totally different mentality about horses over there than we do in the US which makes a big difference. They are not pets - they are livestock. It is hard for me to describe, but I think this is what attributes to the “let them sort it out” attitude. That mentality plus forward riding makes all the difference. We also did exercises that used the terrain and the countryside, and it really taught us to trust our horses.

I didn’t find that the mentality at all when I was there…

What I noticed were the kids were taught from day 1 to listen and ride effectively. From the start they are taught the concept of riding a horse into the contact, going off the leg, etc. Not spending 8 years riding in circles following others over simple outside - diagonal courses. They are expected to be effective.

Riders also do not train their own horses when they are young. Majority of people send their horses for professional training whereas here every kid and rider under the sun wants to train their own horse and help develop it. The difference becomes kids riding horses who are better trained and can train the riders feel - as opposed to kids who ride horses who go around with their heads in the sky and have no concept of leg.

[CatchMeIfUCan]

[QUOTE=Jealoushe;7730010]
I didn’t find that the mentality at all when I was there…

What I noticed were the kids were taught from day 1 to listen and ride effectively. From the start they are taught the concept of riding a horse into the contact, going off the leg, etc. Not spending 8 years riding in circles following others over simple outside - diagonal courses. They are expected to be effective.

Riders also do not train their own horses when they are young. Majority of people send their horses for professional training whereas here every kid and rider under the sun wants to train their own horse and help develop it. The difference becomes kids riding horses who are better trained and can train the riders feel - as opposed to kids who ride horses who go around with their heads in the sky and have no concept of leg.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, I wasn’t clear that I was speaking to NZ, not England. It is not at all that they didn’t love their horses. But they treated them like horses. They all lived out 24/7 and weren’t treated like precious flowers. The 3* and Grand Prix jumpers all were kicked out to live with the cows on the hills all winter. We didn’t ride in indoors ever, even when it was raining. We fox hunted a few times, and it is no joke there - we jumped full barbed wire. I think this is what makes the NZ bred horses special and sound.

I agree with beowulf about access too. It is exponentially easier when things are close and cheap.

[subk]

I haven’t read all the comments, but I want to say how challenging the question is for a one star. The technical requirments on XC have become more and more difficult.

This combination is a maximuum drop in, turning question to a water to water. At the preliminary level. Wow. Fifteen years ago you would have only seen that type of question at Advanced or maybe a Championship Int. Now it’s on a course for Preliminary level kids.

Water to water is a highly technical question that most people don’t respect as much as they ought to. The question certainly separated the wheat from the chaff and kudos to all those kids for taking it on.

[GotSpots]

[QUOTE=subk;7730158]
Water to water is a highly technical question that most people don’t respect as much as they ought to. The question certainly separated the wheat from the chaff and kudos to all those kids for taking it on.[/QUOTE] Good point. The big drop with turn off of the downhill approach made it a tough tough question, even though water-to-water is pretty much a given on most Preliminary courses these days (and I’ve seen a championship Prelim course that had a water-to-water double combination, where the first fence was a square brush water-to-water and the second fence a skinny brush water-to-water).

[CarrieK]

Nothing substantive to add–what else is new, eh?–but I do appreciate this discussion.

That is all.

kthxbai.

[Eventer13]

[QUOTE=subk;7730158]
I haven’t read all the comments, but I want to say how challenging the question is for a one star. The technical requirments on XC have become more and more difficult.

This combination is a maximuum drop in, turning question to a water to water. At the preliminary level. Wow. Fifteen years ago you would have only seen that type of question at Advanced or maybe a Championship Int. Now it’s on a course for Preliminary level kids.

Water to water is a highly technical question that most people don’t respect as much as they ought to. The question certainly separated the wheat from the chaff and kudos to all those kids for taking it on.[/QUOTE]

There are water-to-water questions at training now.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

[QUOTE=Eventer13;7733583]
There are water-to-water questions at training now.[/QUOTE]

Really! I haven’t seen that yet. But yes, water to water is very technical. I thought this was a hard question for a 1*…in line to what I’ve been seeing but on the harder end.

[gypsymare]

[QUOTE=bornfreenowexpensive;7729888]
I’d be curious how many of the European kids start out in fox hunting.[/QUOTE]

I wouldn’t dismiss this. I learned more about effective riding and a secure seat in one year of fox hunting than in 8 years of lessons.

[quietann]

Does anyone think it’s possible that there was a hole in the footing at the bottom of the drop? I noticed most of the horses who tripped landed in the same place, and one who landed with his hind hooves in that spot tripped behind.

Agree that the second group looked a lot better, but so many seemed to forget that there was a turn right after the drop!

[omare]

I felt really bad for the cute pinto -did not seem to deserve such dunking.

[tbchick84]

First of all, kudo’s to the male rider around 14:40. What a nice smooth ride. He really made it look easy. Horse dropped into the water like a feather and then got perfect striding on the way out. I am sure we will be seeing him again in the future.

I don’t know who brought up the issue of water drag, but I had the uncanny luck of doing a course walk at Rolex with WFP and asked him that very question. He said water does not create any drag at all in that depth. Love to hear what others have to say about that.

As for the rest of the riding, those kids are way above my level. I’m sure there were some butterflies and it takes some guts. Yes, the excessive whipping should have been addressed. The dog should have been removed from the area. It still boggles my mind that dog owners think everyone around them is fine listening to their poorly trained pooch. Back to the riding, that drop into the water looked to be very extreme. It would take the bravest, most effective riders to get there with the proper balance & impulsion. A lot of those rides just looked like riders who were probably not quite on board with it and horses who were tuned in to that.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

@tbchick84;7734428

First of all, kudo’s to the male rider around 14:40. What a nice smooth ride. He really made it look easy. Horse dropped into the water like a feather and then got perfect striding on the way out. I am sure we will be seeing him again in the future.

He did do a lovely job…it also helps when you are sitting on such a lovely horse as well. That is a former 4* horse (Critical Decision). He did ride him very well and I believe they won.

There is not a ton of drag when water is not deep but it DOES stop the horses some jumping in and it does zap some of their forward energy as they change how they move in the water.

[ACMEeventing]

Apparently there were some FEI repercussions after this event (I noticed after following the link from the WEG yellow card thread). There was one yellow card for excessive use of whip; one warning for “firing horse to the jump”, I have no idea what that means; and one warning for jumping the rope border. All in the 1*.

The rider who received the yellow card for excessive use of whip is not on the video.

Given the discussion on the sportsmanship displayed by some of the riders, I thought it was important to note that there was a reaction by the FEI. Obviously these riders are young and hopefully they will use this as a formative experience in growing themselves as athletes and horsemen. And those who were “whip happy” and didn’t get a warning will maybe reflect a bit.

I’m hoping the dog’s owners got a suspension . . .

[Romany]

Thanks for sharing, as it’s always fascinating to see one after another over the same fence.

I honestly hadn’t realized this was a competition, vs a training exercise, as some of the YR rode in so tentatively, I think they were praying the horse would stop. Still, better to be slow and safe vs turning turtle in the water!

NOT impressed with the post-refusal whackings - and having to bundle your reins and straighten yourself in the saddle first, in oder to do so - tsk, tsk. Do your schooling at home.

What I liked seeing was the ones who knew their horses well, and rode sensitively.

The dog - minorly annoying, but I doubt the riders and horses even heard it, and they do have to get used to extraneous hubbub on course. I find the hooting and hollering more irksome, but I’m an old grump!

On the positive side, every horse looked to be of very good quality, and the turnouts were, on the whole, professional. Looks like lots of money being spent on fancy gear (not a criticism - lucky them!).

I wonder how many of them go out regularly with a fast live hunt in the first field on those horses - might do some of them a ton of good, if they want to move onwards and upwards in eventing, as it would help them to think fast while moving at speed, and react accordingly, as well as developing stronger seats.

As for the age thing - it’s not unusual for 14-15 yo to have fairly floppity seats - not a lot of core strength as they’re still growing, but their youth and agility often makes up for it. The world champion show jumper is 18yo at the moment, iirc. And Irish - I believe I read it here!

Lovely rider, # 120 (at 6:52 onwards).

And thanks also to whoever posted the European Young Rider stuff - I predict Cathal Daniels is destined for greatness (OK, he’s already there, it seems, lol) - 1:30 inwards in the first video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf37wIEFVTg&list=PLygX-ItLQtDNYsv_w4LurFRThG2v20o1O

[FrittSkritt]

DOC reamed out the 1* riders in the latest USEA News for not being qualified/prepared enough for the competition.

[tuppysmom]

The riders are often looking down instead of out.
They land ahead of the “balance” and the horses are tripping because of the weight added to the forehand.

jMO

[_Trinity]

Some of those rides are gutsy and show great skill for their age, a few are downright lovely.

The rider on the chestnut that retired stands out in particular. She clearly recognized the mistakes and gave her horse the benefit of the doubt without hesitation. Very classy.

I cannot disagree that there are some that are absolutely appalling. The jump judges should have pulled up the runaway chestnut after that display. The 2* rider who sticked her grey horse… that was disheartening to see. I feel awful for the horse who put in a genuine effort, no thanks to his rider. How sad.

Several of the horses that pecked, or took a dunking, were also very crooked coming in (in addition to the obvious lack of balance/cross cantering).

I had to laugh at the grey at 9:10 - “hang on kid, I got this.”