Bottom line: Treat people the way you’d want to be treated… and expect the same from others. If they disrespect you, belittle you, yell at you, then you need to really review what your goals and priorities are for you and your horse.
For me, I’ve had the yelling, obnoxious screeching trainers and the insulting bullies, and I’m too old to put up with that crap from someone collecting a check from me. I’m an adult and if I’m conducting myself as one and not having a total meltdown, then I expect the same level of respect in return. We may not be peers from an ability level, but I’m sure that I have strengths that they do not… it’s all a level playing field if you spread out the cards in the right manner.
As others have said, you sound miserable and like you’ve lost faith in the capabilities of your existing pros and many others. I can assure you that there are good people out there that care for the horse and humans well-being. It just takes time and patience to find them.
Find a new trainer that meets your goals. They are out there.
i understand you soooo much, the best thing you can do is find help to learn how to train your horse yourself, good luck, this is a tough world
The OP and Foxglove would be out the gate. I grew up with “ staff” . They were family. We treated them as such. Someone needs to make you a special pie………
I think I understand what Foxglove means-- ultimately you, the horse owner, are in charge of you and your horse. Be an advocate for yourself and your horse(s). Make decisions and move on.
However, being a demanding knowitall when dealing with a professional who really might know more than you or crying foul after you know a professional was not taking care of you or your horse and you didn’t speak up right then is immature and unproductive. Your post comes across as those two things. I have had so-so trainers who were not professional at all-- I took what I could and left when I saw that me/my horse would not be cared for correctly. I’ve taken over the care of my horse and continued riding with pros who, I felt, weren’t doing that part of the job-- but I spoke with them about my concerns and we met in the middle. Currently, I’m with a wonderful set of trainers who truly are great in most regards. When I feel something isn’t the way I’d do it, we have a discussion. Like adults. I don’t rage on a forum,. I ask questions, take advice, make a decision and move forward.
Short & Sweet, from a longtime Trainer & friend:
“You empower the trainer”
The sword is double-edged.
As an owner, you need to educate yourself on horsecare & know your horse.
If you hand over care - carte blanche - to a Pro, your Bad & you lose the right to question that care.
If you feel you do have the knowledge, be willing to discuss differences.
Your Pro should be able to accept your input & discuss options.
Rationally, like any business relationship.
In other words:
You can’t be a doormat if you don’t lay down.
Actually, your trainer works for herself. You are a client, and can choose to be with the trainer, or not.
Maybe open your mind and see if the professional is actually correct. Maybe it’s you
If there is abuse or misuse of the horse or client, you are with the wrong trainer. But do not lump all pros into one big group. They are not created equally
eta, if someone treats me like staff, I don’t want or need them around. My mother would have called that rude
I think the trainers who are guiltiest of the type of behavior the OP describes are the ones severely lacking in talent and upper level experience and truly don’t know how things work. They think this is how everyone behaves at the top levels because they audited a George Morris clinic once and saw him acting like a royal douche, so they assume that’s how the top trainers are supposed to treat their clients.
Competent, self-confident horse people generally realize they don’t have to act like that.
As a professional in the service industry, I am nobody’s servant. I assume if you have come to me for help, it is my professional experience you wish to benefit from. In exchange, I expect remuneration sufficient to support my business and MY staff. I thank my staff for their hard work every single day, out loud, in person. If they are mistreated by a client, the client is fired or personally informed by me or my partner that an apology is in order (sometimes the situation is very stressful and a client may just be acting-out.) Clients who insist that they know best about what is needed (when not educated in my field) are also asked to leave. If you don’t respect the professional or the profession, don’t make use of their services.
^^^ This
But also, I have felt your pain. There are good trainers out there, but this sport has become such a business. If you are a heavily involved client (nutrition, vetting etc) it is much harder to find a trainer to ‘click with’ IME.
My solution… build your own facility. Expensive but so worth it.
OP, how good is the market you are in?
The only two pros I have ever had try to boss me around were dressagists and the only fish, or trying to be a big fish in a relatively little pond. We never got very far because I wanted to learn to ride my own horse rather than lease on they found while I paid them to ride mine. And I have made up my own hunters in the past, so while I’m not a dressage expert, I am a competent rider who can take a joke from a horse and who can do as she is told on horseback. I buy 'em green, but I don’t pick horses that I can’t ride or which are way wrong for the job.
Now this is not to say that others haven’t tried to make me into the client to stepped back from the center of things I consider to be central to my riding-- riding my own horse, having some input about her care and/or why she’s doing something untoward, choosing the horse I’d buy, having a direct relationship with the vet and farrier–. But usually, I can tell that that’s their style of program before I have become a client.
I am old, but IME, the best horsemen earn clients’ respect, and so the client feels more than comfortable taking a back seat to the pro. I have had trainers that I have had this relationship with. But also, those were in better markets where there were more trainers to choose from and plenty of them had long experience in the industry.
I will say, however, that I meet more trainers and clients today for whom the client’s hands off position is normal. It’s not what I grew up with in yestercentury unless you were the older ammy with a big career, very limited time to ride, a wealth of experience and a very nice horse. The clients I knew who were like this often had been with the pro for a decade or more before they were that “obedient.”
Maybe, maybe not. I have found if very hard to get a trainer’s attention if I’m a ship-in client. And no, I’m not building a commercial barn just so I can call the shots with my one or two show horses!
Again, in some markets you can find a pro who works well with you as a ship-in client and that will be only some of the pros. Believe it or not, I think it’s the younger, less secure trainers (who, these days come with family money if they own the farm they are on) are the ones that are loathe to trust a client to do her own horse-keeping. I think that might be because they grew up in this kind of full service barn and think that’s the only path to insuring quality.
Neither of my parents grew up with staff, but they were of the generation that knew the line between employer and employees (long afterwards still called “master-servant relationship” in law).
I was grown before i understood the relationship you describe; once I learned it, I liked it, whether I was the “mistress” or the “servant.”
Hmmm. First of all, contractors are not employees. They are independent businessmen/-women. So yeah, you would relate to them differently.
Secondly, I would guess that you and @foxglove are of different generations, and perhaps different cultures.
Hmm. I’m guessing you’re working with a trainer of hunters/jumpers. Even 40 years ago, the h/j world had so changed from what it was in my youth that I now have very little understanding of it (or love for it). Today’s “hunters” aren’t real hunters, unlike the horses of my childhood.
My advice to you (not that you asked for it!) would be to change disciplines. Ride for the love of your horse and of riding him. You could do what other COTHers have been invited to do by still other COTHers, and “come over to the dark side” lol of dressage/eventing.
There are a number of different disciplines you could try that are far more fun, and more educational, than modern h/j seems to me to be. You could get to know your horse so that YOU will know if he is in pain or not, and if he is, where, and why.
So come over to the sunny side of the arena. It’s more fun over here! 
No one forces you to ride with a trainer. Since you want to do everything yourself, just do it. Think of the money you will save.
I don’t think your way and Foxglove’s mom’s way are mutually exclusive. I’m both a service provider & consumer. I’m polite & compassionate, yet I believe that a certain professional distance is to the benefit of both parties. As a service provider, I want to know if a client has concerns or unmet needs. As a consumer, I want to make my service providers’ jobs as stress free as possible. That doesn’t mean that I will shy away from bringing issues their service to their attention & potentially severing the business relationship if they are not open to discussion or an issue goes unsolved. I am always polite & professional about it, though.
There is a stage in every rider’s life where they think they know more than their trainers and their trainers are “wrecking their horse”. Typically what’s actually happening is that the trainer is fixing issues that are cropping up because the rider is passive/handsy/whatever the flaw may be. Then the rider gets on and has a great ride and thinks “oh, I don’t need the trainer anymore”, at which point all trainers everywhere roll their eyes and say “there’s another one”.
Are there terrible trainers? Yes.
Are there controlling trainers? Yes.
Are there mostly trainers trying to help the overhorsed undertrained masses while still trying to protect the horse against all the tomfoolery that the undertrained masses bring? Also yes.
The problem with Dunning Kruger is that you don’t know what you don’t know until you know. Painful for all involved.
One thing I’ll mention as we continue to discuss the possible types of proper relationships between client and trainer is that you (as the client) should always maintain good communication with the trainer. If you see the trainer doing something that you don’t like or disagree with, speak up the first time you see it, rather than letting it go and then letting the episode fester in your mind. And be willing to have a conversation about it rather than trying from the outset to dictate terms.
Similarly, make sure that you and the trainer have talked about goals–particularly if you’re not seeing the trainer that often or if the trainer is actually riding/training your horse while you’re not present. If the latter, you should be able to ask the trainer for frequent updates on how rides went, how the horse has reacted and progressed, etc. But again: make this expectation of frequent updates clear from the outset of the relationship.
I’m in no way trying to suggest that the OP didn’t do any of the above–I have no idea. But it’s important to communicate with the trainer before things s/he’s doing begin to make you mad or lose patience.
And then of course there are trainers who are downright shady or who mislead their clients about the training they’re doing. But that’s another story.
Don’t quite get what’s this rant about but I’ve two things to say on the matter:
1.everybody needs a trainer if they’re perusing riding as a sport (even the top riders).
2. If I’m 100% the owner and unless the trainer pays my bills, I should always have the last say in all that concerns my animal.
If you’re disappointed with how it’s done, change the environment. If you ever have the chance to get out for a while - go to Europe and see the difference for yourself. you will find an abundance of highly qualified trainers.
I hear you. I had consistent trainers for a long time, learned a lot, and enjoyed showing. For the last several years I have had a lot of trouble fitting into a program. I don’t want someone else to ride my horse, I want to improve and have a coach on the ground to guide me.
Things have changed. I grew up cleaning stalls, learning to braid and body clip, grooming and tacking up my own horse. No grooms or tack stalls and I rode several horses even though I had my own. Without that, I don’t enjoy it. Being on my own, I have my old trainers in my head and feel I have become a better rider by learning what works and what doesn’t. I don’t show as much, but use showing as a test of my progress.
I miss having a trainer who would put the jumps up and give me that extra confidence that I could do it. There is not a barn in my area that doesn’t require a training program. I don’t need my hand held, just guidance.
Give yourself a lesson, take video, watch videos, or even try a virtual trainer. If you don’t like what the trainer is doing with your horse, figure it out on your own. I know you can do it, we are horse men and women and the satisfaction is teaching the horse to give you the best ride you could ask for.
