I need some advice about taking a job at a reining barn

[aGoodHoss23]

So I am a pretty experienced equestrian and I am in need of a job. I have only done unpaid internships before and this would be my first paid job. That being said, it’s a groom/loper job and the starting pay is $1500 per month with housing provided (shared with one other girl).

It’s 6 days/week and the hours vary, from 7-5pm or 7-7pm with a half-day on Saturday. Sunday off. I would not be doing stalls or feeding. Most of my duties would be loping, saddling and unsaddling, grooming and bathing, etc.

I asked one of the head trainers how many horses she rides per day and she told me ~21. I found this to be extremely high; honestly I have no idea how that’s even feasible? I was taken aback to say the least. Speechless. My current lesson instructor said he rides 16 per day and I thought that was a lot, let alone, the most I’ve ever exercised in one day was 8 and I thought that was my limit. Maybe it’s something you have to get used to, but when you’re pushing that kind of volume, doesn’t quality become diminished?

She also told me they have 78 horses in training, which seems like way too much for only three people doing the training rides. I really don’t know so I wanted to get some kind of idea if riding 21-23 horses per day is normal trainer volume in the western world. For those with experience working in this industry, does that sound normal? And if it is, I’m scared I won’t be cut out for this seeing as how I thought 8 was a lot. I’m also not 20 years old, I’m in my early 30s. My goals are in line though, as I want to become a breeder and trainer.

For those who have experience working in the industry, does $1500 per month with housing included seem fair? Or are they taking advantage? My bf (not an equestrian) added up how much that would be per hour and he isn’t happy about it, even though he has pledged to support me regardless. And does the volume of horses in training seem normal or is that a red flag?

Help!

EDIT: for those asking, I wouldn’t be the one riding 20+ horses per day. There are two head trainers and one assistant trainer and I’m deducing that they’re the ones doing that kind of volume.

[Scribbler]

@aGoodHoss23

So I am a pretty experienced equestrian and I am in need of a job. I have only done unpaid internships before and this would be my first paid job. That being said, it’s a groom/loper job and the starting pay is $1500 per month with housing provided (shared with one other girl).

It’s 6 days/week and the hours vary, from 7-5pm or 7-7pm with a half-day on Saturday. Sunday off. I would not be doing stalls or feeding. Most of my duties would be loping, saddling and unsaddling, grooming and bathing, etc.

I asked one of the head trainers how many horses she rides per day and she told me ~21. I found this to be extremely high; honestly I have no idea how that’s even feasible? I was taken aback to say the least. Speechless. My current lesson instructor said he rides 16 per day and I thought that was a lot, let alone, the most I’ve ever exercised in one day was 8 and I thought that was my limit. Maybe it’s something you have to get used to, but when you’re pushing that kind of volume, doesn’t quality become diminished?

She also told me they have 78 horses in training, which seems like way too much for only three people doing the training rides. I really don’t know so I wanted to get some kind of idea if riding 21-23 horses per day is normal trainer volume in the western world. For those with experience working in this industry, does that sound normal? And if it is, I’m scared I won’t be cut out for this seeing as how I thought 8 was a lot. I’m also not 20 years old, I’m in my early 30s. My goals are in line though, as I want to become a breeder and trainer.

For those who have experience working in the industry, does $1500 per month with housing included seem fair? Or are they taking advantage? My bf (not an equestrian) added up how much that would be per hour and he isn’t happy about it, even though he has pledged to support me regardless. And does the volume of horses in training seem normal or is that a red flag?

Help!

Depends a lot on what the housing is like. Where I live a nice proper 2 bedroom apartment could easily run 3k or 4k a month so half of that soubles your salary

[red_mares]

Eons ago, my departed trainer rode at least that many horses every day as a young trainer. That was all he did. There were grooms that took care of them, so he literally got off one horse and on the next. It’s not seen often today, as most barns just don’t have that many horses to break or condition.

[ClearDonkey]

That’s less than $6/hour. Will you be living on-site, or do you currently live elsewhere and will continue to live elsewhere? What’s you cost of living as far as food, fuel, replacing worn out jeans/boots, etc.? How will you address the wear and tear on your body? Do you have insurance, or do you expect to have to transition to your own insurance soon (if on a parents plan)? How will this job enable you to save up for the future?

This is the take of someone who absolutely will not be abused and underpaid by the industry, and opts to work an office job, that pays for all of my needs, many wants (including horses), days off, and benefits… There are very few things I’d do at this point for $1,500 a month, even with housing included.

[aGoodHoss23]

The housing is included. It’s not onsite though. Food, fuel, and insurance will be on me as far as I know.

[SusanO]

Unless you qualify for Obamacare I think you will find individual insurance (not group insurance from an employer) eye watering expensive. I would price that first before deciding if you can cover other expenses with $1500. Is that $1500 before taxes? Are they paying you like contract labor (which you are not) and you have to cover your payroll taxes? You need to look into these things before you decide that this is a good opportunity. And no - you can’t skip health insurance in a job like this and I think you already now that.

[trubandloki]

When calculating what you are making you need to include the housing. It is not an ignorable amount.

Using general housing numbers it literally doubles the $1500/month number.

We truly can not decide if the amount is too low until we know what housing costs are where the OP is going to be working.

[lenapesadie]

IMO the wage is too low.

Back in the Jurassic Period, I made almost double that wage plus all inclusive housing that I didn’t have to share for about half as many hours worked riding hunt horses.

[LookinForSpace]

@aGoodHoss23

It’s 6 days/week and the hours vary, from 7-5pm or 7-7pm with a half-day on Saturday. Sunday off. I would not be doing stalls or feeding. Most of my duties would be loping, saddling and unsaddling, grooming and bathing, etc.

I asked one of the head trainers how many horses she rides per day and she told me ~21. I found this to be extremely high; honestly I have no idea how that’s even feasible?

How long would you be riding each horse? Half an hour? If so, if you end up riding 21 horses a day, that’s 10 1/2 hours on horseback. Plus grooming,tacking and untacking, bathing, etc. Add in half an hour for lunch. Maybe a bathroom break or two. So how long is your working day now? Sounds like more than 12 hours to me. Five days a week, plus half day on Saturday. How long would you be able to keep that up? I’m sure some people would be able to do it, but it is a lot of work.

Or maybe that trainer only rides each horse 15 minutes? I have no idea what’s usual in this situation but you might want to think carefully about the time factor. And what happens if you get injured and have to cut down the number of horses per day you ride or take a few days off? Do you have any kind of sick leave? Or possibly just reduced workload during recovery?

[OzarksRider]

@aGoodHoss23

when you’re pushing that kind of volume, doesn’t quality become diminished?

I definitely think quality suffers. If that barn has 78 horses in training and 3 riders, that’s 26 horses per rider. In a 12 hour day, if every horse is ridden every day, that calculates out to a little less than 30 minutes per horse. If you have to do saddling, grooming, and other chores you would have no time left to actually ride. And that’s assuming you don’t take a lunch break or ever use the bathroom.

I’m not a trainer and I don’t know how most barns operate, but I know a young guy (early 20s) who worked at a barn with a lot of cutting horses. He worked a schedule like you describe–12-hour days 6 days a week almost all spent in the saddle. He said those horses were not getting quality training because there just wasn’t time to do it right. He also said the owners thought the horses were ridden every day and that was not true. Owners were paying for their horses to be ridden every day but that wasn’t happening. He was so disillusioned and physically exhausted by that experience that he quit after less than 6 months.

A few years ago I sent my horse to a local trainer for a 2-week tune-up. That trainer rode my horse every day Monday-Friday for about an hour per session, including saddling/unsaddling. I know this because the trainer invited me to come watch, and I did. The trainer didn’t “just” ride my horse. He knew what he was doing and was able to accomplish a lot in a short time.

@aGoodHoss23, if you take this job be prepared that you will not have time for a personal life. And only you can decide if the experience is worth the lousy wages and working conditions. Ask a lot of questions about expectations. Is every horse ridden every day? How many horses are you expected to ride? Do you ride the same horses every day? The working conditions and schedule you describe may be normal in the western world, but I don’t think it’s healthy or good quality for people or horses.

[Bluey]

PM @TheHunterKid90 for advice.
She started like you are in a reining barn and is now an assistant trainer.
She can guide you best, may even know and can recommend or warn you about that trainer.
Reining is a small world and most everyone knows those involved.

The Big Reining Futurity, reining Super Bowl, is on right now, finals today.
Give her time to answer, she is really nice and knowledgeable.
She may not respond right away, way too busy until this week finishes.

[Bogie]

How much do you need/want that job? The hourly rate is abysmal and unless it includes health insurance, it’s going to look even worse. If you think you will learn enough to forward your goals and can afford to work for $6/hour, I’d consider it as an internship. But you need health insurance and that can be $$.

[Salty]

Add to the negatives mentioned above the fact that if the job doesn’t work out for whatever reason, you’ll be jobless and homeless.

[Aces_N_Eights]

Coming from someone who has worked for trainers off and on for the past 25+ years. Strictly cutting, reined cowhorse and a couple reiners. Reiners are not my thing.
I’ll make this short-

If you go into this job thinking about what you’re going to make an hour rather than getting paid to learn and gain knowledge to work towards your goals of either training, showing your own, etc.- walk away.
Do not waste the trainers time or your own.

I still work part time for a cutting horse trainer filling in between lopers because most come in thinking it’ll be fun to get paid riding horses but don’t realize how much work it is. The hours are long and very little time off. If you don’t love it, you’re not excited to learn, and take offense to criticism- you will burn out fast. I see it constantly.
One advantage to starting now is at least you’ll be going in after futurity season, it’ll be easier to get used to the program.

Can a trainer ride 20+ horses a day, you bet. If he has the team to back it up. If someone is saddling, unsaddling, a loper or two and they are paying attention to when he pulls a horse off a cow and you’re there with another ready to go to swap out at the gate. As an assistant trainer, no, I didn’t get through nearly that many as I was saddling and unsaddling my own.
You can put a short ride on one, as long as they make a slight inprovement or do good, put them up. They don’t need the piss drilled out of them everyday to make sure the client is getting their monies worth or to get them trained.

I will say that having set hours is new to me. We weren’t done until the horses were worked whether it be 8 hours or 16. At a show is a whole other ball game. Do you know if you will be traveling or staying home loping the horses not showing at the time?

[aGoodHoss23]

north Texas

[aGoodHoss23]

They told me I would be going to some shows and staying home for others

[Alterwho]

What type of housing is it and how far away? Will you get paid sick leave and vacation?

[bugsynskeeter1]

It would really depend on the trainer. I think the reining trainers are still getting away with grossly underpaying their help.

I’m in that industry, so feel free to PM me.

[aGoodHoss23]

Why wouldn’t it be contract labor? And they did say it would be a “contractor”

[SusanO]

Because you would be an employee. Google the distinction between employee and contract labor. Heck there is even a recent thread about an employee improperly classified as contract labor on here. The IRS is getting stricter about misclassified employees because calling somebody contract labor avoids a lot of payroll taxes that the employer is on the hook for. And I doubt the employer has any legal ground to stand on when they offer housing to the “contract worker”.

You, as the employee, would not be penalized but you will have to pay self employment taxes ( your social security percentage plus the employers) which used to be 11 percent of your gross pay. You need to work the numbers of what your net pay will be after the taxes you will have to pay. Unless they are paying you under the table which is not a mess I would want to be involved in AND if they do this I wonder what else shady they will do. After you deduce what taxes you will be liable for and what insurance will cost - then you can figure out what is left to live on.