Ideas for a horse that bolts while lunging?

[Going_Royal]

I’ve owned my horse for 3yrs now and my trainer and I have tried multiple different things to get him lunging but he just bolts. He leads wonderfully for the most part and can be ground driven as well but the second you ask for a circle he’s gone.

A little back ground on him: I bought my horse from an Amish family when he was ten ( he was treated amazingly well there they were happy to send him on his way since he had worked hard for them, the man who owned him is my farrier) . They had used him as cart horse and I have since retrained him as my hunter/jumper.
Aside from not doing well with lunging he taken to everything really easily.

Sadly I do not have access to a round pen but here is a list of things I have attempted.
Lunging in a regular halter with and without a chain
Lunging in a rope halter ( this worked well for awhile)
I have tried the Clinton Anderson ground work with him to an extent but it has had little effect on him as far as lunging
Lunging in a bridle with a bit attachment to the lunge line
Lunging on a lead rope to keep him closer
Using a caveson and surcingle to “long line” him. Seeing as he was a driving horse I thought this might make more sense for him (he broke the surcingle yesterday while running away)
Lunging from the top of his nose with the caveson (I got him to turn around once when he went to run but I think it was more out of shock that I had something connected to the top of his nose then anything else)
I’ve done most of these multiple times thinking maybe he didn’t understand or was scared for some reason. I’ve made sure that when I approach him after he’s bolted that I do it calmly and don’t act angry so that he knows he’s not in trouble. Now I’m thinking it’s just more of a disrespect thing but I honestly don’t know.

 He doesn't really bolt very fast he sort of walks away getting himself out of the bend and then plants his feet and sort of leaps into a run. He's about 16h and is a draft cross so he definitely has the upper hand and isn't very sensitive as far as pulling on him.
 He's done this to my instructor and a few other people as well. I'm almost ready to give up with the whole lunging thing even though I would like for him to be able to.

[RxCate]

Do you NEED to lunge him?

It does sound like you need a round pen to get this done. Let him in there to free lunge and calm himself down.

Or, since he was driven by an Amish family, can you long line him safely? Maybe start with that and work up to lunging if you absolutely must.

[Angela_Freda]

He may not be trained to lunge, first of all.
Did you try taking him back to square one with someone at his head?

Honestly, my first thought was you need a round pen and every time he bolts make him keep running until stopping is your idea… that was how we ‘cured’ bolters when I was a kid riding naughty lesson horses on Sat. mornings. However, since he is part draft I would worry about tying up if you really overworked him in order to teach him that bolting is the worst idea ever.

.

[Where_sMyWhite]

Have you tried lunging with 2 lines… one to each side of his nose/mouth and run through surcingle (and I’d be inclined to use bit for control).

[Altermyne]

Teach him to step over with his hind. Don’t start with a long line, but a short line, like a lead line. Then go to a slightly longer line (12-14’) then a longer rope. Don’t let him keep practicing this bad behavior or you might never get him over it

[NotAtTheBarn]

I agree with RxCate, do you need to lunge him?

I have a similar issue with one of my horses, he just bolts as soon as we try to lunge. He’s not the type who ever needs to be lunged before being ridden. The only issue is that it’s made lameness exams more difficult, they are just done under saddle instead.

[S1969]

[QUOTE=Altermyne;8995366]
Teach him to step over with his hind. Don’t start with a long line, but a short line, like a lead line. Then go to a slightly longer line (12-14’) then a longer rope. Don’t let him keep practicing this bad behavior or you might never get him over it[/QUOTE]

This is how I taught my OTTB mare to lunge. No whip, no lunge line just step away. Then a small circle around me at a very calm walk on a lead line. Then I cut a lunge line in half and made it a slightly longer lead line. Still no whip.

In fact, my mare was more upset by the whip than anything else - I still never use a whip or crop anywhere near her. So, if you’re using one…get rid of it for now.

[SmartAlex]

[QUOTE=Going_Royal;8995315]

here is a list of things I have attempted.
Lunging in a regular halter with and without a chain
Lunging in a rope halter ( this worked well for awhile)
I have tried the Clinton Anderson ground work with him to an extent but it has had little effect on him as far as lunging
Lunging in a bridle with a bit attachment to the lunge line
Lunging on a lead rope to keep him closer
Using a caveson and surcingle to “long line” him. Seeing as he was a driving horse I thought this might make more sense for him (he broke the surcingle yesterday while running away)
Lunging from the top of his nose with the caveson (I got him to turn around once when he went to run but I think it was more out of shock that I had something connected to the top of his nose then anything else)[/QUOTE]

Sounds like he’s just bulling out of the circle and leaving in the forward direction. Try longeing with a snaffle bit, pass the line through the inside ring of the bit, over his poll and snap to the outside ring. This will give you more control than the other arrangements you’ve tried. Put on some gloves, pass the longe line behind your body and hold in both hands so you can sit back on him when he tries to leave. Note: This will not work on a horse who backs away from the circle. If he hits the line, decides he can’t bolt forward, and swings around to face you, release the pressure or you will just back him up at a very high rate of speed.

[joiedevie99]

I would go back to square one and pretend he knows nothing. Pony Club puts out a great guide on teaching a horse to lounge. I personally never use a second person. I just start with leading, then leading with an extra foot or so between me and the horse. Then parallel leading, where I face the horse but am otherwise just leading him. Then (over weeks if necessary) you let line and out walk progressively smaller circles until you are stationary in the center.

That said, I would be really hesitant to try to fix this without a proper fence. I’d use a round pen or small paddock. If that isn’t available, choose a corner of the arena, and use jump standard and poles to make the other two sides.

[Lusoluv]

I’ve taught many horses (young/barely handled to bullies who had their owners’ number). It isn’t a difficult task, but it needs to be done by someone who knows how to fix it. Letting the horse repeat the bolting is confirming the behavior and it’s going to only get more entrenched. As with a bucker, a skilled pro is needed. Telling even an intermediate rider to keep getting back on a bucker is dangerous and counter-productive. Drafts can be very stubborn and once they learn how to throw their weight around, skill and the right tools are needed - not experimentation!

[ladyj79]

It’s been three years. You need a new trainer/instructor.

[IPEsq]

What do you do when he bolts? Does he always pull away from you? Trying to win the tug of war with the front end isn’t going to work. You need better control of the hind end. I have a bit of the opposite problem…horse who started refusing to move on the longe line. If I insisted on moving, he’d kick at you or rear or something equally bad as bolting.

I have re-started the groundwork, including getting control of yielding all 4 quarters in hand in closer and working on fine tuning the leading. With bolting either he’s anxious or distracted or he’s being rude. Doing the groundwork allows you to get his attention back on the former and reestablishes the respect for the latter. You would then start on the longe very slowly and on a small circle. Walking. Stop and yield the hindquarters. Change direction and yield the forequarters and walk. I had to fix these steps before I could get my horse to even think about trotting much less cantering.

It’s interesting he does it when double longeing since he is compliant with driving. I think there must be some anxiety there somewhere about going around in circles. My friend’s TB is like that…he thinks longeing is just about running around like a maniac, and he tunes you out.

I’ve used a few different methods to work on my horse, but one source that’s inexpensive and has some free videos on YouTube is Warwick Schiller. I also had someone local come out and evaluate and give me some lessons. Even though my horse wasn’t bolting he was still out of control.

[Lord_Helpus]

I had a horse who used to turn his butt to me and bolt whenever he got bored. The trainer who was breaking a baby for me showed how to stop that behavior.

I use an attachment which snaps onto each side of the bit, with a rig in the center that the lunge line snaps onto. This way, contact is always with both sides of the mouth.

Then add a saddle or surcingle. Snap the lunge line to the bit adapter and then bring it back through the ring on the surcingle that is in the middle of his side.

Push him out on the circle and ask him to walk or trot around you. If he starts to look like he wants to be bad, just put tension on the lunge line and it pulls his head to the inside. If his head is being pulled back to his inside, he cannot bolt away from you.

Once you feel that the moment is over and you have control again, loosed the lunge line and send him back out on the circle.

This method is guaranteed to teach a horse not to have nefarious ideas while lunging.

[Duramax]

I didn’t read through the responses but I have an elephant sized draft X that learned this trick (he would only do it to the right). I “reformed” him by having someone ride him while I longed him. They basically sat there and didn’t do anything unless he started to suck back or think about deviating from his circle (that’s what precipitated it usually). They would then add leg or steer as needed. I also gave him a ton of treats when he would give me several circles of Good Boy. (This can backfire and you end up with a horse that turns in or comes and looks for treats.). I was always very careful not to drill- he’s an evil genius type of horse and as soon as he decided that it was busy work then he would play the turn and bolt card. I also tried to make a big deal over him when he was being good- I felt like it was important for me to recognise and praise good behavior. In his case side reins were helpful. I needed him to be able to be longed because we host HA Pony Club certifications at our barn and he needed to be able to be one of the horses used. (All 4 candidates that drew him for their longeing horse have passed and aside from being lazy he was an angel.).

[JB]

"He leads wonderfully for the most part " - this is likely the root of the issue.

Why are you lunging him? For what purpose? It doesn’t sound like he needs to be lunged, just something you want to be able to do.

If there’s no need, I wouldn’t bother, EXCEPT for seeing if there’s a physical discomfort issue.

He may have simply learned that lunging is either boring, or that he’s supposed to “run”, and simply does not understand.

If you really want him to be able to lunge in even a rudimentary sense, then start smack over, right back to where his leading issues are.

[Bogie]

Personally, I’d stop lunging him :). I never lunge my own horses although I will occasionally long line them.

If you want him to be able to lunge and he already ground drives, I’d lunge him with two reins so that you maintain control of the outside shoulder.

Alternatively, you should find a place with a round pen.

[Lord_Helpus]

I think all horses should know how to lunge. There are many times when it is a valuable ability, be it for the vet to evaluate lameness, when he is high and you want to work off some energy, when you are unable to ride and someone else needs to exercise him without riding.

That said, every minute you spend with your horse, you are teaching him something – both good, bad or re-enforcing old training.

And you have been teaching bad habits for a long time, so good habits will not come overnight.

Make a plan and stick to it. Any day that you are working with him and things are not going well, move on to something else that you know he will do well and do not stop until you can pat him for being good at something. (One day, when working with a young OTTB, I finally was able to get him to stand still for 15 seconds so I could praise him…).

10 minutes (even 5) of good learning is all you need. Do not keep going until he is bad. Learn when to anticipate that and stop the session before it happens.

[findeight]

It’s hard to erase bad experiences from previous owners and, really, if he’s been doing this for 3 years with OP? It’s going to be ingrained pretty deep, I’d just skip lunging. All you are doing is reinforcing the fact he’s bigger, stronger and doesn’t have to. He’s set up to continue to fail at this and he will.

Have you considered he may not be physically able to stay in that small a circle? Big horses sometimes can’t and drafties sometimes just don’t have the same kind of flexibility as lighter horses- it’s not what they are bred or built for. And he’s older, many times arthritic changes make small circles difficult or painful.

Also so think you need a better quality instructor. If a horse obviously fails at the same thing for years? Something’s got to change in the approach, including realizing the horse might just not be able to do it, it might hurt to do it and he doesn’t really have to do it.

[findeight]

Forgot to add with no round pen fence to help him and keep him from leaving ?You can’t hold him, he knows that. You lose every time. Don’t put him in that situation, you put a horse only in situations where you can succeed not guarantee failure. Most instructors would consider that training 101.

[tazycat]

If you don’t need to lunge then forget teaching him.Obviously it’s failed for 3 years to be able to teach him. Nice if they know how to lunge, but really not that important for a horse to know. To me it seems like a mindless task of going around in a circle.