I’m looking for a stallion to breed an RPSI and GOV approved mare to. Who would the foal be registrable with if it’s sire is approved with the Jockey Club or Trakehner or KWPN or AES or ACE? I have no experience breeding mares that are approved RPSI and I have examined so many eligibility requirements I have thoroughly confused myself. I want to know all my options before I make a decision!
Jockey Club does not have an approval process. Trakehner is a closed book… is your mare TB, Arab or Trakehner? Need to know more about your mare to say anything about KWPN. AES is an option but not super popular in the USA yet. I’m not familiar with ACE.
I would look for a stallion that is already approved Westfalen NA (RPSI is now joined in this book) or GOV since your mare is already approved there. Each registry has a list of active stallions
https://oldenburghorse.net/oh/stallion-directory/artikelliste3861.html
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Yes, she’s a thoroughbred. She’s not race-bred and has fantastic form over fences.
If this is your first WB breeding ordeal I would use the registries that she is already approved for. Find a stallion in those books that is a great cross for her and go from there 
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If you have an approved TB mare I don’t think you can breed her to even an approved TB stallion and register as a WB. Because she would be 100% TB. The idea of approved TB is to add new blood to the WB registry. And I don’t think nonracing TB get registered with the Jockey Club? At any rate if you want a marketable sport horse foal, having Jockey Club registration for the foal just sounds like any other OTTB.
If your mare is a JC registered TB and is bred to a JC registered stallion (and follow appropriate protocol - JC does not allow for anything other than live cover) then the foal can be registered with the JC. There may be a few performance registries out there, but to my knowledge none of the conventional warmblood registries would register this offspring.
To get a trak registerable foal, mare needs to be approved trak + stallion needs to be approved as well. I’m not familiar with AES and ACE so can’t speak to that, but KWPN has a few different options depending on the details of the mare and stallion.
Ultimately, the suggestion above thread - find a stallion already approved for breeding for what the mare is also approved for - will be easiest. In this case, I would probably recommend just finding a GOV approved stallion - there are so many really, really lovely ones out there.
I had a JC registered mare and had her approved by Oldenburg. At the time, if a JC horse presented with JC papers, was inspected and approved, then entered, in my mare’s case, Main Mare Book.
WB “registries” may accept a horse into a ‘book’ based on an inspection and/or performance. Depends on the registry and what other registry or book the horse is in.
Yes. You can get a TB approved for breeding in multiple registries, but that does not mean that the horse is registered, only that they are approved for breeding.
The OP asked about if she bred her JC reg TB mare to a JC “approved” stallion (which means it would be a TB stallion) as well. I was replying to that. I cannot think of a situation where a TB stallion had warmblood approval, was bred to a TB mare (also approved) and then the subsequent foal is registered as a warmblood. Arguably the situation could arise (there are still approved TB stallions out there - celle still offers Lauries Crusador frozen, as well as Likoto and Sea Lion - all TBs) but those stallions are typically bred to heavier mares in need of refinement, not a TB. That said, I suspect the OP isn’t necessarily talking about a WB approved TB stallion - they specified “JC approved” in their first post.
The GOV eligibility requirements are behind a membership paywall but ISR/OLD NA specifies that for a foal to be registerable the mare must be in a mare book (or eligible- can be presented and registered at same time as foal; OPs mare qualifies for this) and the stallion mist be by an ISR/OLDNA licensed or approved stallion (with a breeding license for year of breeding). A JC stallion does not meet this requirement.
Of course they do? Jockey Club is a breed registry. As long as both parents are JC registered, and the breeding meets JC rules (including live cover), the foal can be JC registered - and most are registered as foals (so no one knows if they’ll ever be raced) because the cost of registering after one year old is outlandish. The vast majority of JC registered horses never race.
OP - as others already said, go with a registry the mare is already approved with, OR a KWPN approved stallion - they accept JC mares (and no requirement to go through inspection with the mare, although you can do IBOP or other higher levels of recognition).
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As MOR said, most/all JC eligible foals are registered. The lip tattoo that not all JC registered horses have (or rather on’t have, my mare didn’t have one) simply means they got ‘close’ to the race track… works, gate training (I believe it depends on the state when a horse must have their tattoo/microchip in place).
My mare was Breeder’s Cup edible as nominating as a foal is cheap… nominating as an adult is expensive
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Ah thank you for clearing this up! I was conflating lip tattoos and actual registration!
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I feel like I’m missing something here.
A TB bred to a TB is… a TB. As such, the Jockey Club would be where the foal gets registered.
Even if both parents are approved with the same WB registry. A full TB is in no way a WB of any kind.
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I’m pretty sure there is a good limerick in this somewhere;)
If the mare is live covered JC does not accept AI offspring for registration.
FWIW, the WB ‘registries’ are really books. Some, even if the foal is of approved offspring, will require the offspring be approved prior to being accepted into one of the breeding books the registry may have.
WBs are more of a ‘type’ rather than breed same to same makes offspring eligible for breeding. JC+JC results in offspring that may be bred to another JC registered horse, no approval process required.
My mare was JC registered. I did take her to an ISR (IIRC) approval along with her JC papers. Inspector said she was accepted into the ISR Main Mare Book and was just the type of mare they like to see in the MMB.
Breeding an approved TB stallion to an approved TB mare is possible and permitted by several of the WB registries. In many cases, the offspring of such a breeding would receive full “WB” foal papers from the registry if the breeder sought such registration.
While possible and permitted, it seldom happens.
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Thank you for the information! Just to make sure I’ve got this right, for a foal (out of an approved TB mare) to both be registered as a warmblood and still be sired by a JC registered TB stallion, that stallion would also have to be approved by the same registry as the mare?
Yes, both parents must be approved by the same WB registry (in most cases) – best to check with the specific WB registry.
Think of a few of those approved TB stallions - Ladykiller, Coconut Grove, Sea Accounts for example… If bred to an approved TB mare, the resulting foal could end up in a WB registry - and since it was probably done by AI/Frozen, Jockey Club would NOT be an option.
ETA, I realize that not all these are currently living stallions, just picking some names I’m familiar with…
As other have mentioned–if your mare is already approved RPSI and GOV(Oldenburg), your best option is to select a stallion already approved by those registries. RPSI is now run by Westfalen, so you should look at the Westfalen stallion roster for approved stallions. Be aware that GOV is the NA division of the Oldenburg Verband. It operates under the name Oldenburg Horse Breeders Society, so you want to look at the OHBS/GOV stallion roster. (Don’t get led astray by the ISR/Oldenurg NA stallion roster. That is a totally separate registry and many stallions are their roster are not approved by GOV or any other warmblood registry for that matter.)
As for breeding TB mare to TB stallion - some registries will issue WB papers to a full TB foal if the mare and stallion are both approved for breeding by that registry. There are not many TB stallions in NA approved by Westfalen or GOV (many none these days), so you will probably want to select an approved non-TB sire. Even if breeding for an event foal (I assume this is your goal, since you are thinking TB mare to TB stallion), you can find good candidates for event offspring on the warmblood stallion rosters–particularly ones with high percentages of TB and/or Trakehnher blood.
Also be aware that stallions have to be “reactivated” every year to be on a registry’s stallion roster. That requires payment of hefty fees so if the stallion isn’t attracting very many mares, a stallion owner may elect to not relist her stallion with that registry. The stallion may be still be “approved” by the registry, but is not on the current active stallion roster. That’s a long way of saying that a current roster may not reflect all possibilities available to you.
Your best bet is to ask the Westfalen and GOV/OHBS registries for guidance.
Having more than two decades experience in WB breeding, I understand exactly what the registries are, which ones still have ties to Germany and are worth their salt, and which ones will accept anything with four legs.
Though I suppose it is “technically” possible to register a 100% TB with some of these registries, it would be extremely deceptive to do so. Buyers ignorant of what a WB is may not realize that they just bought a TB. In the end, I guess whomever did so would just see it as a case of buyer be ware.
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