If you’re talking about Cigar shooting blanks, Allan Paulson had nothing to do with decisions made surrounding that horse by that point. He was sold for stud purposes to the Irish interests of Coolmore/Ashford stud and was insured against infertility. The insurance company paid out on the policy to Coolmore and they have owned him since.
[QUOTE=cloudyandcallie;6393528]
And Penny Tweedy and other owners have come out in recent years and agreed with you, so you are in good company. (Yes I know Secretariat was put down when he had laminitis at 17 yoa.) And Allen Paulson didn’t put his stud down when the stud was shooting blanks.
I read recently that the TB “industry” has gone from breeding 3 or 4 thousand a year to over 38,000 a year. More fodder for slaughter, more breakdowns on the track, but then everyone gets to own a share of a racehorse. I said when Barbaro shattered that leg in so many places that that breeding combo was wrong…so there were more full siblings bred.
I want the horses like Kelso (I know yes he ran for longer because he was a gelding) and Slew and Bid and Affirmed, who lived till their mid-20s.
What difference does it make if the Japanese eat him like they did Ferdinand vs. getting sent to slaughter if a horse fails in the breeding shed down here? The TB “industry” needs to breed sound horses and train them more carefully.
(There’s a reason that horses and cattle drink a lot of beer over in Japan.)[/QUOTE]
This years foal crop will be approx 22,000, not over 38,000. I dont know how long ago they were breeding 4,000 foals, maybe the turn of the century? I dont know, had to be a long time ago.
Barbaro’s brother, Lentenor has made 15 starts so far ( he just ran on June 16) and Margano has made 6 starts (oddly enough he also just ran on June 16). Im not sure what your reference to breeding more brothers has to do with anything. Barbaro’s sire and dam, between them, made 55 starts. I dont know how you would like people to breed horses any sounder than to breed 2 horses like Barbaro’s sire and dam. Dynaformer made 30 starts, he had siblings that made 23, 23, and 32 starts. Barbaro’s dam made 25 starts and had siblings that made 24, 20, 85, and 80 starts. So if you dont think that is breeding soundness to soundness, then why dont you tell me how to breed soundness.
I have not been on the Chronicle for sometime now, and it appears everyone is as snarky as I remembered. Someone posts something concerning there opinion and everyone jumps on them on how stupid they are. I am posting my feelings on because I really feel the owner and trainer were only about money and it just happened they had a horse that won 2 legs of the triple crown. The Japanese do eat horse meat, as my daughter-in law lived there for 2 years. I know they will use him for breeding, but when all the hype of him dies down and no one is talking about him anymore, and maybe he is a dud at stud, that is when bad things happen. I hope as someone indicated that three chimneys will be looking out for him, but that may also be all talk to keep people from making comments on this horse fate. I know horse racing is a business, but they are live creatures that deserve to die with dignity, not tossed aside like yesterdays garbage. Well I have had my say and you can all pick me apart now for being naive, but I just had to voice my opinion on this horse going to Japan.
Was that a tongue in cheek response?
The complaint is that Ferdinand was sent to slaughter when he wasn’t useful and that SS was kept alive after some think he was suffering. Which is the issue? The Japanese eat TB’s or they keep them alive when they are suffering? I am of the belief that Barbaro should have been euthanized at Pimlico, not 8 mos later at New Bolton. Thus while I disagree with SS being kept going as long as he was, I understand why both horses were kept alive. They were regarded as “heroes,” animals of such superior quality that anything done to “save” them was justified.
[QUOTE=kcmel;6393076]
Barbaro was never allowed to reach the stage that SS did. Nowhere near it. It sounded really horrifying.[/QUOTE]
Bull. Barbaro should have been destroyed as soon as the x-rays came back on race day. Sunday Silence wasn’t kept alive months after what any sane person would have seen was a death sentence. If what people say whenever Japan is mentioned were true, they’d have just packed him off for dog food as soon as it became clear he wasn’t going to be siring anything and treatment wasn’t going to be cheap.
The breeding indistry has gone from 4000 a year to over 30k a year between in the 19’teens and today. Man o War was part of a crop of 5k in 1917.
Most failed stallions here don’t go to slaughter. They are sold to places where they may have a chance. Some are gelded and retired (like High Fly) and some are gelded and send in search of other jobs. It’s not like rescues are pulling failed TB stallions out of killpens every week.
Even if IHA had won the Belmont and TC I doubt that there would be a ton of interest in him here. Let’s face it, if the same breeders said no to a dual classic winner the Belmont wasn’t exactly going to convince them. He simply doesn’t have a sire pedigree even though I liked his prospects because he was bred to route yet won his debut, early in his 2yo year at 5 1/2f.
The number of TBs registered yearly has been on DECLINE since the mid 80s. We haven’t bred “3 or 4 thousand a year” since the mid TWENTIES.
The data is easily accessible online:
[QUOTE=bugsynskeeter;6393040]
I could say the same thing about Barbaro.[/QUOTE]
A HUGE ditto to that!!!
[QUOTE=bugsynskeeter;6393040]
I could say the same thing about Barbaro.[/QUOTE]
A HUGE ditto there!
[QUOTE=danceronice;6393901]
Bull. Barbaro should have been destroyed as soon as the x-rays came back on race day. [/QUOTE]
Another ditto.
Sagamore Farm in Maryland had/has one. Daughter’s friend’s father was the manager back in the 80’s and 90’s.
Has a what? Broken down triple crown race winner?
[QUOTE=kcmel;6393035]
Seriously? Do we really need another stallion that couldn’t make it through his 3 YO year? Of course it’s about the money. Why wouldn’t it be?
OTOH, I don’t agree about how great Sunday Silence was treated. From reading about the situation at the time, it sounded like he was allowed to suffer tremendously before he was finally euthanized. I thought they kept him going WAY too long. But, that is just my opinion of course, I wasn’t there.[/QUOTE]
Sunday Silence wasn’t actually euthanized. They kept him going on painkillers until his heart finally gave out.
I have read - not sure how true it is - that the Japanese are more likely to let an animal die on its own rather than euthanize, unless it’s a catastrophic injury like a shattered limb. I could very well be wrong, though.
Ditto on Barbaro here too. That went on far past what I could stomach.
I dunno, a lightly raced, broken down barely 3 yo stud is the last thing we need over here and I can’t see he’d book that many mares with so many available choices over here…he is no conformation ideal either.
If they can match him to the right mares there good luck to them. They were the ones who came up with the check after all. Not like they snuck him on the plane to avoid a bidding war or anything.
[QUOTE=Mara;6395613]
Sunday Silence wasn’t actually euthanized. They kept him going on painkillers until his heart finally gave out.
I have read - not sure how true it is - that the Japanese are more likely to let an animal die on its own rather than euthanize, unless it’s a catastrophic injury like a shattered limb. I could very well be wrong, though.[/QUOTE]
I don’t know if that’s true in Japan or not, but I have no moral problem with that position. Keeping a horse with a nonrecoverable catastrophic injury alive, when there is no reasonable chance of his even being pasture-sound, let alone breeding or riding sound, is a lot more cruel than letting a disease take its course.
Allen Paulson retained a minority share in Cigar (which he named after his business interests here). He and his wife Madeline were pretty good about taking care of horses. Her last name is now Pickens.
[QUOTE=cloudyandcallie;6396445]
Allen Paulson retained a minority share in Cigar (which he named after his business interests here). He and his wife Madeline were pretty good about taking care of horses. Her last name is now Pickens.[/QUOTE]
Paulson had no say in what happened to Cigar once the insurance company paid out the fertility settlement. He became property of the insurance company.
And the insurance company moved to put Cigar down once they took possesion after paying out the claim. That’s what they do, they do not keep them.
The Paulsons offered to buy him back from the insurance company at the claim price, which was declined, then went to great lengths and expense, including the court system and the state legislature, to get him a reprrieve and moved to the KHP. It was a pretty big deal story around here for several months as the case went on.
Not correct to say Paulsons were uninvolved after he was sold. If not for them fighting the insurance company, the horse would be dead.
Those posting about Barbaro and Sunday Silence, while I may agree with you about the measures being too extreme and these horses suffering, it is not unique to racing and is each person’s judgement as to what lengths they will go to to “save” a horse. It is not always money that is the motivator. I know of a couple of rescues that go WAY beyond what I think is humane to save horses that will never be sound or even very comfortable. I don’t think that really has a point pertinent to this thread (although of course we are free to discuss it!). People will always choose what they think is right as far as when to put a horse down. In some cases it is also mandated by insurance, but again, that happens in all disciplines.
I wish I’ll Have Another had stayed here in the US - I know of some interests here that offered for him. I wish him well in Japan.
