I don’t disagree. That being said - none of this is wrong or unreasonable on what the trainer was recommending. A 25 YO horse def needs maintenance and support (injections/bemer/etc). OP sounds like a taller man so probably did need a newer saddle (and assuming it’s a medium tree, it will probably fit most horses). And if I read correctly, the OP isn’t paying a lease fee which is a pretty major savings. I get his concerns but based on what he wrote, I just don’t see any kind of rip-off happening.
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IMO the dollar amounts aren’t really the problem here, these are going to vary wildly between different barns and locations. The problem is lack of transparency from the trainer on what costs the OP would entail. It should have been provided in writing that vet costs are the lease rider’s responsibility and known/scheduled/routine maintenance costs are $$$ on XXX dates. Since OP has stated the Bemer and treadmill are not specified in the board agreement, those should have been provided in writing as well. As should have the clipping fee. I don’t agree that OP should have asked these specific questions before-hand. You don’t know what you don’t know, and obviously OP is not advanced enough to know what to ask. Trainer absolutely failed in their responsibility to be honest and upfront with everything the lease entailed.
Trainer definitely sold OP a dream with the saddle. As is their job as a rep for the company, I guess. Either trainer is wildly delusional about the ability for a CWD to fit all horses, or they purposefully misled.
Why was the lease specifically for only four months??
OP did your lack of payment spark a conversation yet? Looks like this thread was started a few days ago.
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I agree…especially since OP is new to the industry.
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My nearly 27 year old mare had her last hock injections at age 24, but the vet said she doubted she could do them again. We used one of the biologics where the vet can freeze part of it for future injections. Sure enough, at the next injections her hocks weren’t having it. We switched to her knees (which should have been done years earlier), and got remarkable results that lasted about 6 months, but the second round did nothing.
These days, I can’t really afford fancy injections, so it’s all about the Meloxicam.
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Yeah, I pay $125 Canadian for a full clip, takes her just over an hour and she does a phenomenal job. I don’t know how she does it 
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I also want to add, that even if the OP isn’t getting ripped off, there also might be some very respectable cheaper situations out there. As a beginner, you don’t necessarily need to start at an expensive h/j show barn. However, it’s really tough as a beginner to shop around as you might not have the experience and skill to see red flags–lease/school horses with bad or dangerous habits, poor instruction, dangerous practices around the barn. Nonetheless, there’s nothing wrong with shopping around and comparing–just get advice/input from an experienced horse person if you do.
This is just my opinion, but I think it is a far better value to pay higher prices and have a great experience than to do it on the cheap and have a bad experience. An injury or a nasty fall or a bad experience could sour you on riding before you even have a chance to learn. And injuries and medical bills can be very costly.
When I’m reading the OP, I see that the OP has progressed a lot in the program andabout the horse that he is riding, and I don’t see any concerns about safety or the quality of the horse or the instruction, and that is nothing to sneeze at.
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If you look from the front and the back the lines should match
So we should expect trainers to be con artists and rip off people because that’s how they make their bottom line?
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I think there is a difference between ripping someone off and doing a sketchy job of informing clients about costs up front.
No one is making a living off of $1000/mo full board–that’s not a realistic rate for many areas given the cost of real estate, taxes, labor, maintenance, insurance etc. Most boarding barns use board as a loss leader, and make their money off of other services such as training, showing commissions, and layup care. People often shop around for barns using the monthly board rate as a major comparison, so it’s often better for a barn to break down the rate and charge less for board and make it up in other areas (like requiring a certain number of lessons or training rides per week, or requiring clients to pay separately for things like the use of a theraplate). There is nothing unusual about this, and most people acclimatized to the horse industry know to ask about what extras are required, down to mandatory commissions or if they have to ride in a saddle of a certain brand.
Most people in the horse industry know that their trainer isn’t getting rich off of any of this stuff and understand that on their trainer’s end, running a horse business involves a lot of cash flow–cash coming in and flowing right on out to pay for for the things listed above (mortgages/facility lease fee, labor, insurance, maintenance, equipment, etc.).
I have often thought, as an horse owner and client, that it is sometimes wiser to pay less attention to how the charges are broken down and more attention to the total amount and the value I am getting for that amount. A trainer might be losing a few hundred per month in board, but making that money back and making their (perfectly well deserved) income off of other services like training and show fees. I’m okay with that.
New entry into the horse world often involves some financial vertigo. Horses are super expensive, and the way fees are structured (and what costs are necessary and reasonable) is often poorly explained and confusing.
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Unrelated to the OP’s situation, this one boggles my mind. I’ve never heard of such a thing, and I would probably think it was a joke if anyone tried to tell me that.
Again, not saying it doesn’t happen. Just that I’ve never seen it.
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Yeah that seems crazy to me too- you use whatever brand saddle fits your horse and yourself correctly
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This is not one that I personally would go along with, however, many trainers are “sponsored” by saddle companies. This is not a typical sponsorship where the saddle company is using the trainer as advertising. Rather, to be “sponsored” and to get their free saddles, the trainer needs to actually sell X number of that brand’s saddles to their clients. The trainer is basically earning a commission based on sales. For larger barns and for barns with a lot of horses coming and going, it might not be a lot of work to encourage that X number of new saddle purchases. For smaller barns, sometimes there can be a lot more overt pressure regarding saddle purchases.
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Oh, I get the concept. But the idea of that as a requirement for customers would sound pretty far over the top for me.
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I’ve never seen it listed as a requirement in a contract (not that I read everyone else’s contracts), but don’t think it is that unusual for it to be an unwritten expectation that can crop up somewhat uncomfortably. I can think of multiple situations where conflict has arisen when friends have declined to replace a saddle with the trainer’s preferred brand or purchased a used or new saddle of another brand. I’ve can think of several situations where friends have purchased saddles they weren’t sure they needed to keep the peace, and at least one situation where a friend left a trainer after conflict related to her refusing to buy a new saddle. It’s worth asking about when moving to a new trainer.
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I agree with all this! Also, I think when you are new to horses—speaking as someone who also started riding as an adult—it can be hard to appreciate the economics of a lease.
I can still remember a time where it boggled my mind why anyone would want to pay to lease a horse—and assume all the costs for that horse for the duration of the lease term—when they could just own! All I can say about that now is “hahahahahahaha.”
But… having said that, there are absolutely some lease arrangements that are more favorable than others.
People have already pointed out that OP got a lucky break to land a free lease on a school master. But personally, I would have reservations about doing an in-barn full lease like this one. When the owner still has custody of the horse and day-to-day involvement in all the care decisions, I think it’s better (from the lessee perspective) to do a part lease with a flat monthly fee instead. Otherwise, there’s too much pressure to acquiesce to whatever care decisions the owner wants to make and wind up feeling like a walking checkbook.
That’s in contrast to an off-property care lease, where you might end up making all the same care decisions and paying the same amount, but you would feel like they were your decisions, and like you’d assumed full responsibility for the horse’s care, and not just financial responsibility.
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Well, yes, though that’s not a particularly generous way of looking at it. I just think it helps to realize it’s an industry where “the price is whatever someone is willing to pay.”
A trainer might be willing to sell a horse for $5k, but if someone out there is willing to pay $10k, why not ask for it? In fact, why not ask for $12k? And a trainer might be willing to let someone come and hack their old school master for $600/mo to defray his maintenance costs, but if someone is willing to do a full care lease, why stop them? In fact, why not ask them to throw in a few hundred each month to offset the payments on the barn’s treadmill and BEMER?
Is it shady? I mean, yes, sort of? But it’s not exactly an easy business. And I think the lesson is that you need to accept that the onus is on you as the client to set your own limits with respect to what you’re willing to pay. Because if you outsource that responsibility to your trainer… well, again, the price is whatever you’re willing to pay.
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THIS!
X 1 Million.
Do you go to the grocery store without a list or without any idea of what you’re buying?
Buy based on what you see someone else put in their basket?
You don’t need to be a mechanic to buy a car.
You can research trainers before committing.
Adult riders & non-riding parents need to do their best to educate themselves.
A trainer/friend once told me:
“Clients enable the trainer.”
Truer words, never spoken.
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One would think that a signed contract would outline the cost of the lease. It is not ok for the lessor to add on undisclosed fees after the fact.
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Hard to make a decision on what you’re willing to pay when you aren’t actually told all the costs. Wtf
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Yes - the major issue here is that OP didn’t have all the costs outlined up front.
Does a 25 year old horse need maintenance? Quite possibly, and certantly shots and dental might come into play. But this should all be outlined up front, and preferably as an addendum to the lease document. Sudden added charges are a huge red flag.
I’m neutral about the saddle (though apparently CWDs have gotten outrageously expensive). Having a saddle that fits you and works for a variety of horses can be a win. I’ve had my semi-custom CWD now for 12 years, and it fits all of the horses I’ve ridden well enough. It wasn’t that expensive, though.
Ours is an expensive sport. There are a lot of good trainers who want to help people get into it. However, there are a bunch who are either less than forthcoming about expenses or deliberately opaque - sounds like you fell into the latter, OP, and I’m sorry. As someone up thread said, we’ve all been there - take the lesson (at least you didn’t buy the horse!) and move forward with more knowledge. And now you know to come to COTH if you’ve got questions about your next horse.
All the best!
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