I'm getting ripped off on my lease, right?

[BeeHoney]

@dogsbody1 I think some of this is unfair. A trainer is allowed to use their expertise, networks, and reputation to sell a horse for whatever price they think is marketable. This is acceptable and par for the course for any industry. (I’m not talking about hidden commissions which are unethical and generally illegal, or selling horses without disclosing serious defects.) Buyers are entitled to negotiate or simply shop for a different horse if they find the price unfair. Buyers are also entitled to use their own expertise sift through the many ads on social media or other horse sale sites to avoid trainer markup.

Also, I am a bit taken aback by your suggestion that it would be fair for a beginner client to expect to be able to lease a schoolmaster for the price of defraying some maintenance costs. In this instance, the trainer would be financially supporting their client’s riding hobby. A trainer keeping schoolmasters around for a fraction of what it costs to keep them…I mean, this is not a workable business plan for a professional program. And I also think it is a bad business plan to have “charity” clients–it’s a bad look to be charging some clients full price and giving others steep discounts. An exception would be an experienced rider that hacks and tunes up school horses to keep them at their best (and that also has the experience and professionalism to handle the task independently).

[hrlo_1722]

Additionally, if the saddle company sponsors your trainer, they have a relationship with the rep and organize the rep’s coming out. When I bought my horse, I knew my saddle didn’t fit him well, and we got fitted with the rep. I wasn’t expecting her to say I would need more of a custom build for him (wide shoulders and rib cage) + me (long thighs & 18" seat) vs something that I could buy used nor was it an expense I was expecting to do that day, but the inverse of all that is trying to organize rep visits and saddle trials and paying deposits.

[ThreeWishes]

A schoolmaster that is the coveted barn horse is a gift. I leased a 21 year old made hunter until he was 26 on a care lease. This was 2010. Board was $650. Shoes were $250. He got Biannual coffin joints and hocks done.All routine care. Chiro a couple times a year. I lessoned twice a week. I rode most other days. I showed him and won EVERYTHING. Low hunters. 2’6”. At A shows and at the local circuit. He taught me EVERYTHING. I do think high volume top barns are used to a certain clientele. And I have pushed back regarding charges. Openly and honestly. Because I valued the opportunity. Communication is the key. USE YOUR WORDS.

[Wilish]

These are all pretty standard fees for care for a horse and are typically included in a lease. I just leased a horse out for 5 months and the lessor is expected to pay for ALL vet bills, maintenance, and board that their trainer and/or veterinary team deems necessary during that timeframe. I did make sure the horse had a bunch of maintenance done relatively close to before he left, but a lot of things are “due” before her lease ends, and the lessor will pay for them.

The short term nature of your lease does make it a little weird, but if the horse needs all this work every 6 months, then I’d expect you to pay for 2/3 of all of that, at minimum. You did put 4 months of “wear” on the horse.

$275 for clipping is on the high end, but it’s not totally unreasonable. The bemer and theraplate may be a part of boarding there, and while it should have been disclosed when you signed the boarding contract, it’s not unreasonable. I wouldn’t say you’re getting “ripped off,” but possibly taken advantage of slightly, but honestly none of this sounds that wild to me. I’d pay the bill. You can decide if you want to find a new trainer with more transparent fees and leave, if that’s better for your wallet.

[dogsbody1]

@BeeHoney

Also, I am a bit taken aback by your suggestion that it would be fair for a beginner client to expect to be able to lease a schoolmaster for the price of defraying some maintenance costs. In this instance, the trainer would be financially supporting their client’s riding hobby. A trainer keeping schoolmasters around for a fraction of what it costs to keep them…I mean, this is not a workable business plan for a professional program.

No, I wasn’t suggesting OP haggle for a discounted lease. I guess I can see how that was confusing. I was trying to point out there are shades of gray between a weekly lesson and a full lease. Right now, OP is paying for exclusive use of the horse, but is that necessary? The trainer might be willing to negotiate a few unsupervised hacks each week between lessons, while maybe not always getting to lesson on this particular horse, for a price the OP is more comfortable with, and the trainer can continue using the horse in their lesson program, or even lease him other days to a different rider. It’s probably easier for the trainer and better for the horse to be exclusively leased out to the OP, and so maybe that’s the first (or only) arrangement the trainer offered. But there are other possibilities that are still more lucrative to the trainer than losing OP as a client altogether

[foursocks]

I’d like to point out, again, that while the “ripped off” part is not necessarily the case here, the fact remains that the OP was not told about any of the extra charges. He was simply billed for them. He was also billed (without being told or asked) for yearly and bi-annual maintenance costs even though this is a one-off 4-month lease. Again, all of this was charged to him without the trainer informing him of any of it when he signed the contract.

I’m surprised to see people defending this all-too common and very unbusinesslike practice.

[beowulf]

@foursocks

I’m surprised to see people defending this all-too common and very unbusinesslike practice.

Maybe some of the defendants are trainers.

(teasing! sort of.)

[dags]

The fact also remains that none of us have seen the contract, which could potentially include language along the lines of “routine maintenance”. Should that be spelled out for a newbie? Yes, yes it should. But we’re also getting a very one-sided view of what happened here, from an OP that seems to have already answered their own question and doesn’t seem interested in discussing their role in this senior horse’s need for maintenance.

So less “defending”, and more unwilling to condemn the general population of trainers based on a random internet poster that’s shown, like, minimal (if any) appreciation or concern for this 25 year old horse that would maybe like a fly mask heading into spring.

[endlessclimb]

It’s the issue that it’s a 4 month lease. Why does this leasor need to foot bi annual or annual bills when the lease doesn’t encompass that full time? The fly mask is just insult to injury. The trainer would be served to pick which they wanted - 6 months of maintenance paid on a 4 month lease OR a fly mask.

They’ve got their cake and they plan on eating every single bite. Sounds like it’s the last cake they’ll get from this client, though.

[dags]

And if it was an off-property lease? Send your flymask off to be lost and never seen again? Certainly a nice gesture but no one here would be holding it against you if you didn’t.

It is generally standard for lessee to assume all costs of the horse’s ownership unless owner agrees to pay for XYZ, even if it’s short term and not leaving the home barn. Again not saying the trainer is without fault here, but I really don’t think they should be painted as a crook.

[endlessclimb]

Can the leasor take the fly mask with them at the end of the lease without the trainer getting salty about it? Because really, they own it - especially if they bought it for a year’s use on a 4 month lease.

The trainer is really grasping at straws on the charges, IMO. Maybe they should have billed the leasor for polo wraps and jumping boots, too. And some saddle pads that stay with the horse. Maybe the saddle should stay with the horse, too. And a halter. And an annual supply of fly spray. Then they’d have brand new stuff at no cost to them.

Leasing a horse for 4 months isn’t a way to get a completely full free ride for the year.

[tabula_rashah]

If any of us were treated this way in a monetary transaction outside of the horse industry we’d be posting about how we’d never deal with that company again.

[dags]

@endlessclimb

Can the leasor take the fly mask with them at the end of the lease without the trainer getting salty about it?

Like, yeah, probably.

@endlessclimb

The trainer is really grasping at straws on the charges, IMO. Maybe they should have billed the leasor for polo wraps and jumping boots, too. And some saddle pads that stay with the horse. Maybe the saddle should stay with the horse, too. And a halter. And an annual supply of fly spray. Then they’d have brand new stuff at no cost to them.

This is interesting, because you just pointed out a ton of stuff the lessee is likely getting free use of.

[ParadoxFarm]

@tabula_rashah

If any of us were treated this way in a monetary transaction outside of the horse industry we’d be posting about how we’d never deal with that company again.

Yes, exactly! We’ve all come to just accept that this is how the industry works, and have “drank the Kool-Aid” so to speak. It doesn’t really surprise us who have been around for a while. It’s like renting a car for a week and having to pay for the next renter’s gas for the next week as well as your own. Or going to FedEX Kinkos and ordering 100 copies, but having to pay for the whole ream of paper because, well, they had to open a new pack. Outside of the horse world, that sounds ridiculous. Inside, we accept it (on the most part) as “normal”.

I have a problem with trainers who accept a “free” saddle if they have to sell X amount of saddles to get that free saddle – IF they push it to people who do not need said saddle. The trainer is obligated to sell the saddles, but what if those saddles to not work for their clients? I feel like they’d be more professional if they bought their own saddles, yet charge a fee for helping find the right saddle for a client, whatever the brand. A saddle is part of the cost of doing business. Pay it, and be unbiased in finding a saddle (or fitter) for your clients. I’m sure others may not agree with me on this.

[endlessclimb]

I’d imagine a leasee would be more than happy to pay for 4 months worth. A whole year, or even 6 months? What is this, a charity lease? No way Jose.

And if you think that the trainer wouldn’t be salty about the fly mask leaving with the client, I’ve got a bridge to sell you. Just like the trainer wouldn’t be salty if the client pro-rated the 6 month maintenance himself, right?

[trubandloki]

I have to ask, those who are all upset because it is only a four month lease and these fees are being charged - would you be OK if the OP had, instead of cost lease, an actual lease fee?
Say board there is $1000/month and the lease fee for this aged packer was another $1000/month, no additional expenses above that.
Would that wording make it OK?

Disclaimer, I think all trainers should be upfront about the cost of things and all that.

[mmeqcenter]

@dags

Should that be spelled out for a newbie?

Why should it only be spelled out for a newbie?? It should be spelled out for every lease that states the rider pays for vet fees. Just because I’ve been riding for 20+ years doesn’t mean I know exactly what maintenance a single specific horse gets. If it is routine, it is planned and it is known, therefore, it should be divulged.

[endlessclimb]

Yes, because then the cost would have been upfront instead of some attempt at a bait and switch.

[dags]

@endlessclimb

And if you think that the trainer wouldn’t be salty about the fly mask leaving with the client, I’ve got a bridge to sell you.

Do you think that people that buy bridles for their lease horses send those bridles home with the horse?

[endlessclimb]

Does the trainer buy the bridle and bill it to the client?