Yes, correct. I think I was more meaning the actual (horseman’s) definition of maintenance probably needs to be spelled out. You would see the word maintenance and know to ask what that entails and ask for that to be clarified in the contract. A newbie may not even notice it or know that it means anything more than your standard oil change.
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Doesn’t really matter, the bridle is still the client’s. If OP wants to take their fly mask and go home they’re technically entitled to do so. Is it gonna be a funny conversation over a $25 fly mask? Probably, but I’m not convinced trainer is going to put up a big fuss over it.
We are coming up on summer lease season. There will be loads of 4 months leases going on. Horses will load up on trailers, depart their home barns, and become the sole responsibility of another party. If they need a fly mask, lessee will need to buy a fly mask. If they need a bridle, boots, polos, saddle pads, halter, fly spray, body clip, and/or a saddle for that horse, lessee will need to purchase it. Most of these people will probably also pay a tidy 5-figure sum on top of this for the pleasure. They all get to keep whatever they bought.
There are legitimate complaints here, but also think there is some muddying of lines between what should be covered in the lease and what is part of the board & training program and would have come up even if the OP had brought in a horse from another barn that the trainer didn’t own. In all cases, trainer is failing at communicating what are otherwise legitimate and aboveboard costs, and that’s the distinction I’m attempting to make. The costs are legitimate, and OP should not leave with the impression that they’re just getting swindled and it will all be cheaper if they go somewhere else (of similar caliber).
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I don’t think that the actual cost is the big problem here.
It’s the undisclosed nickel-and-diming that got the client (plus the hog wash about the saddle)
The client might have been happier with a lease fee that was nominally higher but had all those hidden cost included.
Again, i don’t think the cost is the issue - for most part - but the way they were passed on to the client.
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When I was leasing a horse, I bought stuff all the time that I left with the horse when the lease ended, from fly spray to new stirrup leathers on the owner’s saddle to grooming equipment. I’ve also ridden at many rough lesson barns where people ended up buying stuff for the horses they rode regularly because the equipment was so shabby, and after they left, the equipment remained. Maybe not an expensive bridle, but lots of little odds and ends that add up over the years.
I have to say, it’s not ONLY in the horse industry, where upfront costs sometimes aren’t clear, because once someone has “bought into” something, it’s more difficult to say no–if the price seems cheap, people are more apt to say “yes” versus seeing the final price on the dotted line. The issue here is that the OP didn’t know about these, and maybe he wouldn’t have wanted to lease this particular horse if he knew the full cost.
Now, the trainer may think this horse is worth every penny and more put into him (or not) but it’s the OP’s right to make that decision himself. I think even some well-meaning trainers get offended when they have a beloved old campaigner that they want to sell/lease to a student, and a student doesn’t feel the same way about the horse.
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Yes, because it would be a fully disclosed amount that the person leasing could decide if they can afford it or not.
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I remember a conversation I had years ago with somebody in the horse business. He had a son who was into some sport that did not involve a horse. I don’t recall now whether it was golf or hockey or whatever.
But he said it was remarkable how similar the routine seemed to him, although he was used to coming at it from the trainer side, not the parent side.
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Or the full cost of private school. Or the full cost of a country club membership. Or a trip. Or a wedding.
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I just wanted to echo this great post.
I am the first one to get frustrated at the overbilling and other nonsense done by some trainers. But I actually think most of these fees are on the reasonable side, with the possible exception of the treadmill and bemer, which I think should have either been included in the board or disclosed in advance. Paying for the vet work that comes up as necessary while you are leasing the horse seems 100% reasonable and expected to me. (I have NEVER heard of pro-rating a series of Adequan based on the frequency with which it’s typically administered.)
I think the main issue here is the lack of communication. You are new to this trainer’s program, and the professional would have been wise to explain everything to you up front so there were no surprises. (I have been doing this forever and I still hate surprises! This is always one of the first things I communicate to new professionals when I work with them. I want to know in advance what is going to show up on my bill so that I can budget accordingly.)
As for the saddle, I’m not sure it was necessarily the most prudent financial choice for you. But I also understand why the trainer recommended you order something custom sized if you are a tall person with particular size needs who might struggle to find a used option easily. She probably just recommended the saddle she would have chosen for herself. But she might have offered you some other ideas if you had asked for more affordable options. At least you get to keep the saddle and take it to the next barn and use it the next horse! Some horses need very special saddles, but many horses will do just fine in a standard tree and panel configuration.
Some of the prices you’ve quoted seem high–like the body clipping–but others honestly seem low. And getting a quality schoolmaster for no lease fee is really uncommon.
In short, I think it’s absolutely fine to move on. And I do think the poor communication is not ideal. But I think some posts are being more negative about this trainer than is warranted. I don’t get the sense you were deliberately scammed. And I suspect that you are likely to end up paying a higher monthly cost at the next place you ride, though hopefully you will know about that in advance.
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This whole discussion makes me think of the financial distinction between a stock broker and a fiduciary.
From Google’s AI:
Personally, I want to work with a trainer that views our relationship like a fiduciary, with a higher standard of care that leads them to act in my best interests.
Some of the posters in this thread have described trainer relationships that are more like those of a broker, in which, while they can’t recommend things that are overtly contrary to the client’s interests, neither are they obligated to recommend (or inform) clients of other options that might better serve those clients’ best interests.
It sounds like the OP thought he was getting a “fiduciary,” when instead, he got a “broker.”
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Here’s the thing. Leases are a very safe way to get into horse ownership or use without getting saddled with the ppe, the potential breaking of the horse. The retirement. HIGH end barns. High end made horses that can bring a true beginner along quickly and safely are priceless. Have I ever heard of a 4 month lease? Nope. But in H/J land I’ve seen paid 6 month leases on made horses in 5 figures. Plus all the board plus fees. If this person had bought an unknown horse. They would have spent way more than a fly mask or a berner on the cost. You swim in the deep end of the pool of this world …. It has a price. This is obviously the wrong barn for the OP.
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This is a great point.
Except for the assertion that this is the wrong barn for the OP - IMO.
What was needed that was different: The OP needed a far more comprehensive and intensive introduction into the world they were stepping into. It is a world that goes far beyond going out to the barn to ride a horse. With or without jumping.
Sometimes a newbie has a well-indoctrinated friend who passes the indoctrination along ahead of time, fills their ears with information and anecdotes, brings the newbie out to the barn with them to see it, before they live it.
Sometimes a trainer is good at onboarding people who are new to this world (not nearly enough of them are, frankly). Obviously that didn’t happen for OP.
A more well-rounded education re this world, a more comprehensive indoctrination, before plunging in, might have added this newbie to the world of the regulars, in a more seamless fashion.
Or, allowing the newbie find out ahead of time that all of this was maybe not really what they wanted. If they had known that this is what it takes to learn horse jumping in an environment like this one, maybe they would have re-routed to a different discipline and/or a different horse world, that is far less expensive and complicated.
But - that’s not the way the introduction played out. So it seems that, in this barn, now it is up to the newbie to educate themselves via social media. To me, that onboarding education is the big missing piece in this drama.
Also OP – this barn, this lease, is not the only way to learn how to ride and jump. Explore other barns and options and find what is the best path for you. It might be this lease, in this barn. It might be something else, somewhere else.
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Or simply something simple. We used to be able to buy a starter horse. Afford to board, lesson and learn from others.
Not any more.
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There was clearly a failure on the part of the trainer to communicate the actual cost of the lease. I’ve never encountered a 4 month lease either (I’ve seen month-to-month or yearly), but I’d balk if expected to pay the full cost of yearly things like dental and all the shots on a horse I wasn’t going to be leasing for that whole year. YMMV. And maybe it’s in return for not paying a lease fee, but that should be stated.
The additional charges would set my teeth on edge, having been in a situation where random charges showed up on my bills. It took me a long while to realize that, in that particular situation, I was seen as an open wallet, so I commend the OP for realizing that it’s possible that that might be happening to him.
I’m sure there are other sports in which this sort of thing happens, but it doesn’t make it right. Professional barns have rate sheets and explain all of the potential charges up front.
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Or 6 figures…
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Yep.
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The saddle issue is weird. But the lease not so much. Best scenario for this poster would be to lesson like crazy until they’re at a point they make the jump to leasing or ownership. And buy a used saddle for the horse you settle on
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Trainers who are an agent in a lease or a purchase, including being on the seller/lessor side and the trainer of the buyer/lessee, absolutely have fiduciary relationships with their clients. In some states, this is codified. Material misrepresentations can occur by omission. So, it really is important for trainers to communicate well and be transparent.
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There is another possible way forward for OP, though … maybe this is not the right environment for OP. No one has to do-or-die with the first choice.
Not all barns are doing everything this one is doing. Maybe a barn that is less complicated and ambitious is where OP would be best suited. In any case, OP can be open to further exploration while sorting out what to do about this lease.
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And this is why “showing” has become a female sport imho. Men simply won’t put up with feeling taken advantage of and will walk while women will make every excuse they can that it’s OK and fine. I’ve seen this play out a hundred times.
OP- if you aren’t comfortable with the business you can go to another one, it’s fine. Be very clear that you have had issues with disclosing charges and billing and look for someone who has a good reputation that way. And think about what you want out of horses longer term- do you want to compete in show jumping? are you interested in hunters (which is more like showing dogs, money means more than talent in many cases), do you want to be able to gallop around the countryside and jump natural obstacles? go on riding vacations? live a rural horsey lifestyle? ride with friends or your spouse or kids? foxhunt? Whatever you want or think you want, keep your eyes on that prize. There will always be some drama in sports but as an adult yes, you are entitled to not feel put out and ripped off all the time just to enjoy a sport. But as a beginner there will be some of that along the way for sure.
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OP stated the original plan was to lease this horse for 4 months and then move to a different horse to lease at the same farm. I wonder if the other lease horse’s term with someone else was ending in 4 months not 6 months. The trainer probably didn’t want to carry that horse for 2 months. Hence lease on 25 year old horse was for 4 months, not 6 months, not 12 months.
For my area in SE PA some of the fees seem high. Dental and clipping in particular. We are not a cheap COL area for horses.
The trainer should have been up front about what would come due during the lease period as far as Adequan, dental, spring shots, Coggins. The trainer should have been more clear on the Bemer and theraplate charges being an additional cost and how often the horse was treated.
This trainer did the student a big disservice, and it sounds like she will lose a lease on another horse due to her a$$hattery. She may have cost herself a commission on a future purchase of a horse and a training slot for this individual. Or maybe the 2nd lease horse would have become an in-barn purchase.
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