Just thinking more on the saddle situation. Is it typical in HJ leases for people to bring their own saddle? If I lease out a horse, my saddle goes with it. If a leasee asked me if they could use their own saddle I’d likely say no, sorry - my saddle is proven to work with the horse. As an owner I’m stuck long term with any damage poorly fitted equipment causes. I might be persuaded to allow my fitter (not theirs) to review the saddle, but on their dime.
Just another reason why OP’s trainers’ actions have left me a little cold if OP’s future looks like long-term leases versus outright ownership.
Off the top of my head, I do not recall a single occasion over the last several decades that I’ve seen or heard of a saddle going out with a horse on a lease for a H/J/E situation.
I’m not saying it’s never happened. But I’ve never seen or heard of it.
Based on your posts, it sounds like you would have no idea if the horse has been using the treadmill the whole time, or if he has not been on it since you were out of town. Ditto for the other therapeutic stuff that goes on there.
Maybe every horse on the property gets all those things done every day as a matter of routine. Maybe it’s every other day. Maybe it’s only when they look like they need it. Maybe it’s when they can’t get turned out because of the weather.
Some places put every horse on the treadmill or walker every single day to get them loosened up, regardless of what else the horse will do that day.
Unless you know the regular routine there from first hand observation, it sounds like these are questions you would need to ask.
Realistically, if you are new to horses, and the trainer has a barn full of them, including the one you lease, the trainer probably knows more about what it takes to maintain the horse’s fitness than you do.
That is a completely separate issue from the billing questions involved.
I would agree with those who have said that it sounds like a lot more communication would be a good idea. Both with this trainer, and with anyone else you might be considering if you decide to make a change.
For the people who have been doing horses forever, it’s easy to forget that lots of other people don’t know the standard routine. And even the standard routine will vary a bit from place to place, depending on the equipment they have on hand and their own priorities in horse care.
I’m very sorry you have found this out the hard way. I hope you will be able to continue enjoying the horses, whether that turns out to be at this place or at a different place.
The horses themselves make all the challenges worthwhile.
Sometimes treadmill use is part of the board package and boarded horses all are handled by barn workers daily for turn out (weather permitting) or treadmill sessions. Usually barns at this level have Care, Custody and Control as a requirement to board there. It is logical and sensible when managing 20-50+ horses owned by 30-50 different owners. It does reduce individual owner control but is the only way to insure everything is done and done on schedule. So, it is your horse but in their Care Custody and Control and on their schedule.
There are barns that are more owner involved but those are generally much smaller and, IME, can be chaotic as far as vet and farrier appointments (many vets and farriers will not come for a single horse). That is becoming more common in any discipline.
This is something to discuss when looking for your next barn. And something that should have been discussed before having you sign anything…but you did not know so don’t kick yourself over it.
Most barns have a printed rate sheet and include it with the boarding contract, post it online and have it available on request. I will not deal with a barn that does not make this easily available, suggest you do the same.
And be sure to practice asking “How much is this going to cost me”. Often. Don’t blindly follow every suggestion fearing somebody will think you are broke and do not get sucked into the old keeping up with the Jones pressure to buy up to fit in or impress.
Somebody upthread mentioned used car salesman? Where to you think they learned those tricks?
Congratulations on taking to heart the lessons you have learned. I am late to this thread, and I am of the camp that agrees you have been taken advantage of by a less than forthright approach but not necessarily ripped off.
With all the comments about horse trading as a profession, the one thing that I would add is that I think sometimes trainers of the hunter/jumper variety use the “non disclosed costs” as a client litmus test. I don’t think this is necessarily done with nefarious intent, but if a client is going to ask questions and maybe quibble over paying for 6 months worth of maintenance when their lease is for 4 months, then that isn’t going to get the client moved to the top of the preferred list. It’s an expensive sport, and I think some trainers have the general mindset that “if you have to ask the price, you can’t afford it.”
OP, I recommend that you buy a 6 pocket pad that comes with shims to put in the pockets.
That way you will have a hope of fitting many more horses if you are just riding them around.
Since I am handicapped (MS) I ride in my own saddles which are usually in better condition and also fit me better (long thighs). When I got an inheritance I was able to buy a better saddle that can fit many different horses (Pegasus Butterfly Claudia jumping saddle) which my riding teachers let me use because I already know how to ride horses (50+ years of riding.) My saddle is not a solution for all riders, but I NEED this saddle because I have all sorts of safety equipment on it for dealing with my handicaps and it is made so that the front adapts to an individual horse’s shoulder/wither conformation. This is the first saddle I’ve had that I have not had to use my 6 pocket shimmable pad to ride the lesson horses though it will come out again if a lesson horse has really weird conformation.
If I use one of my other jumping saddles this pad will come out with me, with the shims, and my riding teacher sets it up to her satisfaction IF the horse is not too wide for that saddle.
These pads are a lot cheaper than another new saddle for use on a horse you do not own if your expensive saddle does not fit the lesson horse perfectly.
omg, yes, so much. I overheard so many conversations about clients who disputed bills (or who weren’t showing enough), and it wasn’t discussed in terms of “is this fair or unfair” but “well, since I know she can afford it, why isn’t she”?
Re: the saddle–when I leased, I always had to use the saddle that “came with the horse,” which often annoyed me, because I’m very short and short-legged, so it rarely fit ME, since the horse’s owner was usually much taller than myself. But no owner wants to risk a horse’s back with a saddle that fits the leaser, not the horse. Of course, the leaser is responsible for keeping the saddle in the same condition as when the lease began.
When I leased/part leased my horses they had to use my saddle unless my fitter confirmed their saddles fit. I always have saddles that “go with the horse” and which are individually fitted. But I’m a bit OCD about saddle fit.
So I definitely didn’t have time to run through all the responses, but quite honestly, your board and lessons are going rate at more remote areas and add about $800-1000k for more HCOL areas or heavily-equestrian related areas. Are you paying a lease fee, or just for horse’s boarding and care? If so, that’s a care lease and an animal of that age is going to need some maintenance, particularly to put up with a 3x a week lesson schedule. Is anyone else riding the horse on other days? Is it a half lease or does the pro ride it when you’re not there? Or the owner?
That being said…I think you kindly say, it’s Bemer or Theraplate, not both. I’m not sure why an aged gentlemen of his golden years would need to be on a tread, unless it’s just the only option when you’re not there. FWIW, a Bemer blanket costs over $5000. So $125/month for 4 months is 10% of it’s original purchase price. If you were to renew the lease, I might try to ask if you can have a package for the remainder of the year and that you’ll pay upfront. Not sure it will happen, but worth asking. Magnawave sessions can run $100-150 a pop down here in the Southeast, so when you consider you get unlimited, it’s really not that bad, as long as it’s being used.
The supplements are cheap. In comparison, my last barn was charging me over $300/month for supplements monthly, and even now, on my own, they are about 4-5x what you’re paying.
Adequan is a fact of life for the seniors. I don’t know why a horse that isn’t doing lead changes needs bi-annual hock injections? How much jumping are you doing? I’d ask to consult with the vet and owner on that one.
The fly mask is horse welfare and much like you wear sunglasses, pony needs some fly protection. That’s part of being a horseman and I see no issue with you being expected to provide for your horse.
Dewormer, shoes, routine vet work… all part of a typical lease.
I feel your pain on the saddle. I had one that was about the same amount that 6 months later didn’t fit the horse that it was fitted for. Old rep went AWOL and interim rep tried to charge me $1000 to get it “modified”, which meant it would MAYBE fit this horse, but would probably never fit another horse and would be impossible to resell. What a deal?!?!?
I do remember one horse that got sold probably about 15 or 20 years ago by now.
And I forget if the owner threw in the saddle to go with him, or offered to throw it in, or offered to sell it for a nominal price, because she thought it was the saddle that fit him the best.
Plus her daughter was getting ready to go off to college and leave the horses behind, so I think the mom was probably thinking ahead that it would be one less thing to be cluttering up her storage room for the next 10 years. Lol.
She did just throw in the Game Ready therapeutic ice machine at no charge, because she wanted the horse to be comfortable. And again, it’s not like she was going to have any use for it when they did not own any horses.
But my jaw just about to hit the floor on that one.
This is so true. I’ve seen trainers/BOs who just simply think they don’t need to act like reasonable business people - presumably because others have let them get away with their behavior! I don’t do h/j but I’ve boarded at places that were predominately h/j and it was apparent that I was not a favored client because I asked questions about fees on occasion. They definitely wanted to be able to bill after the fact and just have people pay without question. This seems to be very h/j specific and I just don’t get it.
restocking fee on a 9k saddle will be in the neighborhood of 3-4k which you could arguably lose anyway trying to sell it yourself and you do save yourself the hassle of listing and any percentage a second hand shop might take, if you can (personality needs to be strong lol) deal with CWD expect a bit of a battle, they threatened me with lawyers and legal action and destroying my credit blah blah blah but in the end I got them to concede and only lost a couple hundred on returning a brand new custom Mademoiselle that was over 9k, but it also took close to three months after they took my saddle to get my money back
Yikes! That must have been an epic battle. I’ve come to the point now where I will only buy saddles that I can ride in. Which basically means I only buy used saddles now.
