Eh, I don’t have a problem with her charging for the clip. It might be her horse, but he is being used by someone else.
The price seems steep, but I likely undercharged during my body-clipping days.
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I guess the H/J world just seems so insane to me with how much things cost 
For that price, just go get your own pair of clippers
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Well, not 9K, and not exactly a con, but I worked with.a highly.recommended Black Country rep to get a semi-custom BC Celeste. I have really weird legs and hips, and needed a forward flap that was also very short, and the flaps were from a different BC model than the Celeste, because the Celeste has fixed external blocks that didn’t quite work for me.
The saddle came in, the rep called me and said the flaps were longer than requested and less forward than I wanted, and really pushed me to take the saddle. In a rare display of assertiveness, I said no. The saddle had to be redone to my spec. That happened but for some reason the rep couldn’t return the first saddle to BC and had to sell it.
However, I would still recommend BC - but with.a different rep.
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Absolutely. Then you can pay for the clippers, the blades, the sharpenings, the oil, and the kool lube, and twice a year you can spend 6-8 of your otherwise free hours (plus bath the day before) covered in horse hair, contorting your body into fun new shapes, bungling your way through a show quality clip, and praying you don’t get hurt. (the ONE [knockknockwood] trip to the hospital I’ve had because of horses was body clip related. Horse was just stamping flies and I almost lost a finger).
As a baseline for standard hunter-jumper leases, you are essentially assuming ownership of the horse. You are inheriting all costs for that animal’s existence. The vets and farriers will literally change the billing party on file for that horse.
Now, you can absolutely negotiate this otherwise and draw clear lines as to what is owner’s expected responsibility and what is lessee’s responsibility, especially for short term leases (such as in this case!). But for anyone else here that is new to leasing hj show horses, just go ahead and assume you will be responsible for all costs of the animal’s existence as if you owned the animal itself. The upside is that if it breaks you get to give it back.
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My father was a trainer, his friends were trainers. I have literally heard trainers swap lies since I was born. Even with that, I still had some trainers take advantage of me. My approach is that I can respect a trainer, but I don’t trust them. My trainer is a very good friend; however, I don’t forget that his interests and my interests won’t always align.
The group my father worked with were referred to by one old timer as “that bunch of thieves up in Chicago.” I don’t think trainers now are any more dishonest than the stories I heard from the 40s & 50s.
For those who think the OP’s costs are high because …H/J. I’ve got Hackney ponies; the costs aren’t that much different. My entry level show harness was around $2K. I could have easily paid $4-6K. A brand new bike is $4K+, a four wheel viceroy is $10K and you rarely see them used. My pony has some weird teeth things; I asked the dentist if I get a discount because he has fewer teeth - um, NO. Horses are an expensive hobby.
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Since you’re local to me, I probably know which Stubben rep that was. I have friends who adore her, but also friends who had terrible.experiences.
The local Trilogy rep as of about 10 or 11 years ago was really bad, and Pelham Saddlery had more used Trilogies than one would expect from a boutique brand for a while… Including mine. The rep who took over is great IMO, not the least because he does a lot of saddle repair on a lot of different brands, and really knows how to work with leather.
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You said it better than I could.
OP is at a top barn, probably nice facilities and stated he’s progressing quickly, so quality instruction.
This costs money at a H/J barn. They have upkeep for facility and equine.
OP wasn’t charged a lease fee for said horse, just maintenance to keep the horse usable for the OP who sounds taller/heavier than most of the trainers other clients.
For the body clip, look up the costs of high end clippers, blades, and 2-3 hours of time. Plus maintenance on clippers. Especially since horse is older probably has a beast of a coat.
Having access to a school master is priceless, hope you are appreciating it.
Trainer is definitely a poor communicator but isn’t taking advantage. The entire barn probably rides in CWD and all clients do.
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I have 7 and clip my own. Yes, I compete. IDK why it would take you 6-8 hours to clip one horse? I have leased horses and have leased out horses. I’ve groomed professionally for dressage horse competing internationally. I’ve been in charge of the horse health care for a world class facility.
It still makes ZERO sense that because the horse is a H/Jer (or weirdly some of the western show world because they do this too)- it makes the price of everything involved go sky high
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Of course it doesn’t take you 6-8 hours to clip a horse. You have 7 of your own that you clip, and were a professional groom for an international dressage horse.
Most folks don’t have that kind of experience, so they have to pay someone that does.
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I don’t see any indication that OP was ripped off by the lease. This was a care lease. It is normal for a care lease that the lessee pays for routine vet and farrier care undertaken during the term of the lease. It is as if the lessee owns the horse for the duration of the lease. If it is a 4-month lease in the spring, yes that does coincide with spring-time vet visits. Just like if you bought a horse in January, you will need to pay for spring vet visits. But if the lessee either renews the lease or leases a different horse for the summer, it will “even out” because that lease horse will have already gotten its spring vet work done. And yes, there may be some inherent unfairness because life is unfair. For example, if the horse’s shoeing schedule happens to fall on the final week of the lease: the lessee pays for it, even though it “benefits” the next lessee. Is that unfair? Yes. Life is unfair.
Pro-rating vet and farrier for a care lease is not standard: it would have to be spelled out in the lease. And pro-rating is going to be “unfair” to someone. The vet and farrier need to be paid; would they have to wait to be paid by the next lessee? That is unfair to them. If the owner pays it, what if the horse is leased out to clients for the entire year? Then it is not a care lease anymore; instead it becomes the owner subsidizing the client’s hobby. That is not “fair” either.
Regarding the bemer and treadmill: I bet these are non-negotiable for boarders. The barn owner paid big bucks for these tools, and I bet the majority of boarders see that as a perk, not a drawback. These tools are meant to reduce vet costs. At a typical show/boarding barn, the horses are not on 24/7 turnout. Bemer and treadmills are meant to be helpful to horses who do not have access to lots of turnout. Some people believe in bemer so much that they spend the 5 grand or so themselves on a bemer set if their barn doesn’t have it. And anyone whose horse is using the barn’s bemer or treadmill expects to pay a fee: it is not free.
The time to object to these costs has passed: the horse received these services, and you previously paid for them and did not object. It is time to do your own research on bemers and treadmills. If you believe it has no benefit, either negotiate out of it for the next lease, or go to a barn that doesn’t offer or push these services. Keep in mind, however, that the list of things that show barns do to keep stabled horses happy is longer than just bemer and treadmills: monthly body work, acupuncture, chiropractic, etc. are all things that cost money that another barn may push/advocate for/insist that leased horses and boarders get. And they are not necessarily wrong. Horses are expensive. There is no way around it.
Regarding the saddle: the saddle is a separate issue from the lease. If you like the saddle, then it was a good purchase. If you don’t like it, either return it or resell it. Saddles are something that riders lose money on all the time. Saddles are expensive and there is just so much to it in terms of fitting both horse and rider. And a show barn that likes/reps CWD is going to be miffed if a client buys a different brand. My only suggestion would have been to search online for used CWDs or similar brands to see if you could find something that fits.
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Yes!! You should only have to pay 4 months’ worth of these fees. If it’s an annual thing, you pay 1/3 of that. If it’s a six month thing, you pay for .67% of it, etc. That seems most fair.
This is the type of trainer, I am guessing, that is going to tell you at the end of your lease that to progress any further, you will need to buy your own horse, and you will have to import said horse from Europe – and this trainer will add their hefty commission. Be prepared for that. You do NOT have to buy a horse if you are not ready, and you do NOT have to import a horse if you do not want to. But be aware that this is common and likely coming.
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Good for you for being your own best advocate. I’m sorry the first saddle came in and wasn’t the exact flap length you needed - why would any good rep push for you to take a saddle that wasn’t what you ordered? Yeesh! It’s their job to make it right, not handwave it.
Some of these reps blow my mind - I’m starting to correlate their moral backbone along the same lines as car salesmen!
Nope, you absolutely do not. But trainer is under no obligation to keep you mounted.
For every one trainer that pulls this crap there are 10 others calling up their contacts and asking if the local celebrity schoolmaster is available. Coincidentally, they are often the same types that tend to have teenaged & older horses that they have chosen to care for and maintain, at increasing costs each year, instead of shipping them on down the line. The barns where everything is under age 8? Those are the ones you’re thinking of.
This horse seems to want for nothing, and that unfortunately came with an unspecified price tag, which was bad, yes. But I would not go so far as to paint them with the industry’s worse stereotypes quite yet. Nor would I want to encourage the OP to think that this level of care is frivolous or (even worse) nefarious.
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Just chiming in to say that I also love my BC. It was my mom’s hunt saddle and with a little bit of re-flocking by an independent saddle fitter, it has been a good saddle for my OTTB.
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My first iteration of my custom BC (so custom I can’t give you a model name. It’s on a Dante tree, dante seat, wexford panels, wexford flaps), they put their logo plate on the back of the cantle when I specifically said not to.
They built me a new one. I would have taken the original at a decent discount, but they elected to just start over. 
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I’m sorry you had to deal with this OP. I’m also in the camp of thinking you got ripped off. For someone new to this, it should have been that much more important for the trainer to discuss the little details. I don’t even feel like you should apologize for not doing your due diligence, as someone said, you didn’t know what you didn’t know. Costs in the area have nothing to do with the conversation. I’m so happy you’re getting out of it. I feel if you had leased the second horse, it’d also be for a few months, and suddenly all of their extra vet maintenance items would have coincidently been during those particular months as well. My gut says that would have been the case.
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If you feel like you have progressed rapidly in a short period of time, you were given access to a horse that enabled that progression, and the trainer seems to have the horse availability and plans for you to move up following this lease - I would not be in such a rush to jump ship.
Others on here are more in tune with the current market but I would imagine a “free lease” at a top show barn is pretty rare nowadays. The trainer could have (and maybe should have) just charged a lease fee upfront to cover all the extra charges - which to me makes more sense for everyone involved. None of what you listed out jump out to me as though the trainer is making a lot of money on this deal. Yes, they are getting some annual maintenance covered - but they are also leasing the horse out for “free” (and for what it is worth - I live in a low cost of living area and pay more than that for a dental from a farm vet so I don’t think those charges seem inflated). The fact that they own the horse isn’t particularly relevant - that stall could be filled with a paying boarder instead. If they were to not charge a lease fee, only charge basic board, and cover vet and farrier they would certainly be losing money which doesn’t seem fair or realistic when running a business.
Personally, before you commit to leaving - I would schedule a time to sit down with the trainer and discuss your concerns, and have a conversation about transparency moving forward. I would also definitely gather information on other options on the area prior to committing to leaving - you may find that other barns are going to charge you way more than what you are currently paying, and/or that there is a lack of suitable lease horses available.
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Yes.
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Again, the charge for the Bemer and treadmill usage were never disclosed to me, either in the initial negotiations for the lease, the board agreement, or the lease agreement. I have double/triple/quadruple checked. As I’ve mentioned before, I paid them initially because I assumed that they were included somewhere in the board or lease agreement before my suspicions were aroused by the volume of charges I was getting that weren’t discussed.
Should I have asked about them when I first saw them and didn’t recognize them? Was I stupid in assuming that they were included in the agreements I signed? Yes, and that’s 100% on me. I’ve acknowledged my mistake in not questioning things either upfront or during the lease in multiple replies on this thread.
Should I be responsible for paying fees that amount to greater than 20% of the monthly agreed lease + lesson cost when they were never disclosed anywhere until I got billed for the first month? I disagree. If I needed to pay these things then I needed to be told about them. They needed to be disclosed to me.
You are arguing that, if my trainer billed me $200 for magic beans when I never agreed to pay for the magic beans at any point in time, then I am on the hook for magic beans for the entire duration of my lease simply because I paid for them previously (due to my own admitted ignorance or otherwise).
Further, I think it’s important to note that (to the best of my knowledge) my horse has not used the treadmill/theraplate since the first month of my lease when I had a weeklong pre-planned vacation. If I’m wrong there and someone at the barn is putting him on the treadmill, then someone is exercising a horse that I functionally own for the duration of the lease term without my knowledge and consent. In my mind, that’s a problem, especially because I free ride the horse 2x a week outside of my scheduled 3x a week lessons so that he stays in full work. Putting him on the treadmill risks (to the best of my knowledge) exercising the horse beyond the limit that a horse of his age should be working.
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No, that’s not how treadmills work. They just walk on them, typically used as a supplement for a lack of turnout. It’s therapy, not exercise. Also, if you’re full-leasing this horse then you are literally the one responsible for keeping it in full work.
OP, maybe I’ve missed it, but have you tried discussing any of this with your trainer? It’s possible both sides may be a little lacking on communication skills here.
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